The Rumour Thread

[Blueraven84]

Oh the doom and gloom. What happened to positive vibes on tga?

Nothing wrong with 40k rules. I know because i have enjoyed them from the start of 8th ed. With little tweaks could easily be transfered to aos system

[Jamopower]

16 minutes ago, Johann said:

I don’t understand the negativity against the 40k combat phase, is there something besides  charging units strike first? It really prefer this, then charges matter and it makes sense to charge with more than one unit. In the second fighting phase we have the alternation as usual.

For me, it was also the ranges that are huge in 40k, practically all models strike always and you get to do it first with all units, which combined reduces a lot of the tough decisions and importance of positioning in the combat. You just put stuff in and roll the dice. Then if the defender survives, they will often just retreat, or there are counter charges, so the second phase never happens.

In many cases, I agree that it wouldn't have too much of an impact, but it''s very easy to have massive whole army charges at latest on turn two with very hitty stuff like summoned skeletons or Khorne, which combined with the chargers striking first, would make the game Very different from what it is now. 

 

I play a lot of different games, so the game needs to have something that makes it "tick" to keep the interest for me. In AoS it's the combat phase, which I think is actually one of the best systems I have encountered in this kind of games and the reason why I have mostly played AoS for the last two years or so. So if there is a possibility that it will be changed, especially to a system that I felt was very bland and uninteresting, I reserve my right to be littly "doomy and gloomy".  

 

On a positive side, the stratagems is the one thing I actually like in the new 40k, so getting them to AoS sounds fun (although we sort of have them already with the Malign Portents).

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Jamopower

[Killamike]

But why? Does it need to be more like 40k,  

I'd be pretty disappointed. I can.just imagine 18 skyfires all charging with DD and them all rerolling everything. 

[Valien]

36 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

For me, it was also the ranges that are huge in 40k, practically all models strike always and you get to do it first with all units, which combined reduces a lot of the tough decisions and importance of positioning in the combat. You just put stuff in and roll the dice. Then if the defender survives, they will often just retreat, or there are counter charges, so the second phase never happens.

In many cases, I agree that it wouldn't have too much of an impact, but it''s very easy to have massive whole army charges at latest on turn two with very hitty stuff like summoned skeletons or Khorne, which combined with the chargers striking first, would make the game Very different from what it is now. 

 

I play a lot of different games, so the game needs to have something that makes it "tick" to keep the interest for me. In AoS it's the combat phase, which I think is actually one of the best systems I have encountered in this kind of games and the reason why I have mostly played AoS for the last two years or so. So if there is a possibility that it will be changed, especially to a system that I felt was very bland and uninteresting, I reserve my right to be littly "doomy and gloomy".  

 

On a positive side, the stratagems is the one thing I actually like in the new 40k, so getting them to AoS sounds fun (although we sort of have them already with the Malign Portents).

 

AoS has the best combat system you've been encountered so far? Can you please elaborate? So far i think of the combat system as the less interesting part of AoS.

Shooting in melee? Charging but with no real benefit of the charge itself. The only interesting part is the pile-in phase. Other than that i think AoS ruleset is going to evolve and thats the best thing about GW right now. First they make AoS, they get their feedback. Then 8th ed. came after they've seen what worked or did not work on AoS and now having the feedback from 8th, is going to push in a better ruleset imo. Both rulesets AoS and 8th keep helping each other while implementing things that work better!

[Spiny Norman]

10 minutes ago, Valien said:

First they make AoS, they get their feedback. Then 8th ed. came after they've seen what worked or did not work on AoS and now having the feedback from 8th, is going to push in a better ruleset imo. Both rulesets AoS and 8th keep helping each other while implementing things that work better!

 

Not so much than unifying the ruleset of  both games imho.

[Jamopower]

1 minute ago, Valien said:

AoS has the best combat system you've been encountered so far? Can you please elaborate? So far i think of the combat system as the less interesting part of AoS.

Shooting in melee? Charging but with no real benefit of the charge itself. The only interesting part is the pile-in phase. Other than that i think AoS ruleset is going to evolve and thats the best thing about GW right now. First they make AoS, they get their feedback. Then 8th ed. came after they've seen what worked or did not work on AoS and now having the feedback from 8th, is going to push in a better ruleset imo. Both rulesets AoS and 8th keep helping each other while implementing things that work better!

It's more about the subleties, the different ranges for the weapons and the 3" "free form" combat zone is what makes it so good in my eyes, the alternating activation is the added bonus, which I generally like to have in the games. All these add more decisions on the actual table top that are meaningful, while stuff like chargers strike first make the army selection have more importance, as you can just take more faster stuff and count on it being beneficial for your army. Shooting is not part of the combat phase, I don't like the shooting rules in AoS very much, but I think they are good enough not to annoy me too much, especially if the LoS rules are agreed to be bit tighter.

I however understand the design points why the things are as they are. The 40k and AoS are similar games, but not the same. It comes from the army lists and not from the actual game rules. In 40k you have much more shooting, and the attacks are generally much more powerful, thus the units getting into combat need to get a "reward" by striking first and from more or less all of the "ranks". Also as the game is much more shooting focused, it's practical to have more rules for shooting and the close combat bit more streamlined. On the other hand in AoS, the attacks are in general much weaker, both in combat and in shooting, and the shooting is much less prevalent, which is seen especially in that there are lots of armies that have very little shooting options like most of Chaos, Death, Sylvaneth, Ironjawz, etc. Therefore the games are usually decided in the close combat, thus the shooting rules can be more streamlined and the close combat more elaborated.

[Chikout]

I feel like it is more than a little early to start panicking. Even if everything rumoured is true,  we don't know how these rules will interact with other elements of the game, especially magic. 

We could easily have more magical opportunities to buff or debuff combats or ways to deny or influence charges. 

Thematically going first after a successful charge makes sense. This makes positioning for both attackers and Defenders more important. 

There is so far no indication that piling in will change so there are plenty of tricks you could use to counter a charge.

In subsequent phases alternating activations would presumably happen as they do now.

[fredster4050]

9 hours ago, LLV said:

Do remember that this is matched play we are talking about - it is soley meant for competitive minded. If players want the fun stuff thats what narrative and open play are for. GW created the '3 way to play' model for a reason.

They did and competitive play was ranked 3rd in the book behind open and narrative, plus on arrival there wasn't even a points system, just wounds, it was refreshing and different. Malign Portents, is all about narrative play, so whilst GW are profit minded they have released a whole product line encouraging narrative play which would seem mildly contradictory if they are now going to turn matched play to 11?

I just don't want them to create generic game systems and play to the loudest crowd, difference is good, I hope they keep it that way...

Edited March 27, 2018 by fredster4050

[Gecktron]

1 hour ago, Blueraven84 said:

Oh the doom and gloom. What happened to positive vibes on tga?

Nothing wrong with 40k rules. I know because i have enjoyed them from the start of 8th ed. With little tweaks could easily be transfered to aos system

Dont get me wrong. I enjoy 40K. The 8th edition is my favorite so far. But I like AoS as well. Especially all the small things that make AoS different from 40K. 
The Initiative roll, the alternating close combat activation and most of all, the simplicity. 
40K has more variety and thematic fitting options but it takes more time to learn all of them. For example, I started playing both Thousand Sons in 40K and Daughters of Khaine in AoS. 
In 40K I have to make the right choice when choosing my army detachments, choosing the psi powers, unit equipment and strategems. All while in AoS I can just take the units I like to play. Sure, it lacks in complexity but If I want that I just could play Warhammer Fantasy.

Sorry if Im rambling. In general, adding strategems and new magic powers can be good. I enjoyed the Malign Portents stuff. But I fear adding that to the core game could be another unnecessary level of complexity that goes against the simplicity of AoS that I like so much.

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ MOD HAT ON +++

Folks, whilst I do enjoy 40K I do need to point out the following...

1. This is not a 40K forum
2. The rumour thread is not the place to debate what you are discussing even if it was

So can we please have some rumours? White Dwarf should be out soon for Subscribers, so we should be getting some nice pictures

[Arkiham]

3 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ MOD HAT ON +++

Folks, whilst I do enjoy 40K I do need to point out the following...

1. This is not a 40K forum
2. The rumour thread is not the place to debate what you are discussing even if it was

So can we please have some rumours? White Dwarf should be out soon for Subscribers, so we should be getting some nice pictures

 here is a thread already established to discuss the AoS 2 talk. 

[hughwyeth]

2 hours ago, Johann said:

I don’t understand the negativity against the 40k combat phase, is there something besides  charging units strike first? It really prefer this, then charges matter and it makes sense to charge with more than one unit. In the second fighting phase we have the alternation as usual.

Because the balance between shooting and combat is completely different between the two games.40k is shooting heavy, AoS is combat heavy. By making all charges activate first, you're completely changing the balance of the game. A lot of forces will become almost redundant. It would be great for fast moving destruction forces like ironjawz i guess, but it would break the game with the current battletomes. The alternating combat is really an excellent system. You have to really think about what to charge, which to activate first and what units to risk by not activating first.  

I am a little concerned about these rumours to be honest. 40k 8th when it came out was an interesting game. Now that every force has dozens of strategems, it's just ludicrous. Every game is like "here's a new thing you've never heard of that you could never prepare for, haha!". Malign Portents, though an interesting add-on for AoS, imitate this too much for me. It's no fun going into a game and learning dozens of new strategems/portents/whatever every time. AoS is great because it didn't have the bloat of 7th 40k. Now 8th 40k is starting to rival 7th, i really don't think it's something we should want AoS to follow. GW just can't seem to help themselves with bloat in their games (it's why I think their specialist games are so good- they don't change the rules!). If AoS becomes a hulking blubbery mass of rules, it sort of contradicts the whole point of AoS in the first place as an alternative to 40k and as a total revamp of fantasy 8th. 

[Gaz Taylor]

As @Arkiham has pointed out, there is a separate topic about AOS 2.

I also need to point out, when it was mentioned on the Twitch Stream about "AOS Phase 2", I think people are getting confused between Phase and Edition.

I'm not fully caught up on what was mentioned at Adepticon or what else has been discussed but all I'm aware about is that Martin mentioned briefly about AOS Phase 2 in the commentary about a 40K game. You can look into this a couple of ways....

1. There is a new edition of Age of Sigmar coming out and it's going to be like 40K and thats the best/worst thing ever.
2. Games Workshop have finished "phase one" of Age of Sigmar, which was the World building and getting the game established. Now they are entering Phase two where they will shake it up a bit from a background point of view

I personally doubt very much that they will do a new "Edition" of Age of Sigmar at the moment and I fully expect any tweaks or changes to happen within the Generals Handbook. I fully expect the story to move along and be a big shake up of what we know as 'normal'. I'm fully expecting a lot more Death stuff to come out and then of course there is what is going to happen with Slaanesh. I would be very much surprised about Games Workshop releasing a second edition and even if they do, I doubt it will be such a big change other than tidying up some of the rules or changing the layout much.

Anyway, rumours please! If you want to discuss AOS 2, please jump into the thread for it and discuss  

[Sheriff]

Charging units to go first in combat you say? 

Buy stocks in fanatics !

[Turgol]

So new MP story reveals that:

-Malekith is the same delusional, megalomaniac and manipulative douche he always was.

-He is fully aware of Morathi’s surplus steal and actually allows for it to happen. 

-Malekith and Morathi are actually aware of Slaanesh being out of its initial position between Hysh and Ulgu. They are also finding very hard to rescue souls anymore and are losing control of Slaanesh.

-Malekith is still aiming for dominion over all others. He is fouling Sigmar into thinking him an ally and actually apparently using the Gladiatorum to steal energy or something else from him. Interestingly, he says Tyrion also despises Sigmar for “what he did with Teclis kingly gift”. Not sure what that refers to.

-The portents are confirmed to be leading to a catastrophe for Malekith and co. So I guess Slaanesh’s escape?

[calcysimon]

In my opinion the only issue in aoe is that a heavy ranged/mages can easily kill 2 pieces first turn 

(12 Skyfires army and mages can snipe heroes behind units) 

In 40k is better in that point of view

Edited March 27, 2018 by calcysimon

[Mayple]

29 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Charging units to go first in combat you say? 

Buy stocks in fanatics !

Skinks would also be hilarious

'I charge you, and then I immediately retreat!'

'but you didn't even attack..'

[Thomas Lyons]

59 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Skinks would also be hilarious

'I charge you, and then I immediately retreat!'

'but you didn't even attack..'

'Right, but it let me travel an additional 15" to claim the objective.' 

[Gaz Taylor]

Just to steer this back on topic.... 

1 hour ago, Turgol said:

So new MP story reveals that:

-Malekith is the same delusional, megalomaniac and manipulative douche he always was.

-He is fully aware of Morathi’s surplus steal and actually allows for it to happen. 

-Malekith and Morathi are actually aware of Slaanesh being out of its initial position between Hysh and Ulgu. They are also finding very hard to rescue souls anymore and are losing control of Slaanesh.

-Malekith is still aiming for dominion over all others. He is fouling Sigmar into thinking him an ally and actually apparently using the Gladiatorum to steal energy or something else from him. Interestingly, he says Tyrion also despises Sigmar for “what he did with Teclis kingly gift”. Not sure what that refers to.

-The portents are confirmed to be leading to a catastrophe for Malekith and co. So I guess Slaanesh’s escape?

Yes I thought this was a very good story as it seems to be setting up quite a few threads for the future for Aelves. It sounds like we will be seeing something Slaaneshi in the future either with the God being freed or with more focus upon the followers of Slaanesh trying to free Him/Her/It. 

Also it's nice to see more of Malerion (aka Malekith) and it seems we have something on the cards around him and his Shadow Aelves. 

So something big is going to happen in the background and I can't wait!

[HorticulusTGA]

A @Gaz Taylor and @Turgol you seem the think that Malign portents will lead to the escape of Slaanesh (because hints in the fluff and rumors on Twitter, right ?)

I must say I can't really see that happends : Malign portents will lead to a cataclysm indeed, but that is the completion of Nagash's great work of rebuilding the black PyramidS power syphon using Shysian realmstones*. The Starter set and Souls war novel is apparently Death vs Stormcast centered because of that.

Slaanesh inevitable escape is such a big event, needing at least 3 army releases (Hosts of Slaanehs, Shadowkin, Lightkin) - I cannot see it steal the show of Nagash's great work (at least this year, we'll see the transition with the new Fate of Slaanesh narrative arc after MP, in 2019). 

Of course I may be wrong - I should re-read the Aelves fluff ; with their souls stealing business, they are by all mean linked to Nagash business in this way at least. 

I can't wait to read about Teclis in the Idoneth Deepkin BT !!

*Of course, one of the side effect of the ritual's completion may be Slaanesh's escape. In fact, IMO Slaanesh let himself trapped (fooling Tzeentch, Khorne and the Aelves gods in the process) because he/she/it "liked" that (like Fulgrim style in Horus Heresy). 

[smucreo]

Nagash's great work won't directly lead to Slannesh escaping, but as noted on the purple ball thing reveal the winds of magic are starting to go wild due to Nagash tampering with them to accomplish his plan. In a way that will most likely lead to the weakening of Slannesh's entrapment, which I assume is magical.  Apart from that, draining Slannesh from his souls may be strengthening him, since the only reason it was captured was because it became bloated from all the souls it consumed. 

That's at least what I assume will lead to the Dark Prince escaping. But of course it's still a long way ahead, first comes Death and whatever Nagash is doing.

[chord]

I think the latest story is a sign of the Grand Alliances going away in "phase 2"

[bsharitt]

Today's Rumor Engine

Probably more likely to be 40k, but nothing about the hatch appears to be more advanced that any Kharadron technology or warmachines is AoS. Too beat up to be the speculated Stormcast warmachine to accompany the Lord Ordinator. Could be a grot sky pirate ship. Realistically I'm guessing somehing 40k, maybe Orks, but doesn't hurt to speculate what it could be for AoS as well.

[Turgol]

No, I do not think that Slaanesh escapes will follow directly as in immediately from Nagash's work, but only that it will lead to that. That is: the "stage 2" setting will start with souls war and new SCE v. new super malignants. But it will eventually lead also to Slaanesh escape. It does need to introduce at least Shadowkin first though, you are right. So end 2019 IMO. 

[bsharitt]

13 minutes ago, chord said:

I think the latest story is a sign of the Grand Alliances going away in "phase 2"

Would be interesting to maybe allow Grand Alliance armies with only those you can ally with. That is to say that you can us GA allegiance and not worry about point ratio ans mix and match allied factions, or you can do the current allies thing with a specific allegiance and a set amount of allied points. I don't think they'll change the GA system, but it would be interesting to see.