tupavko Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Honestly I do not (want) to believe the rumor that the only thing BoC are getting is a Jabber model. The issue with BoC is that they need a total rehaul of every single aspect of the army from the core concept of it. If they are ambushers from the dark then they should ambush better than evryone else, something that is not the case at the moment. Gw simply did not think out the army as a whole, so it kept dragging itslef out of WHFB with the models basically behaving the same way they did (badly) in the past: small guys in large numebers in the first spot, medium guys in large numbers in a second and bigger guys in a thrid spot... The army is just a mess from all points of view: they have no lore in AoS other than random cannonfodder, they charcaters have no agendas except a random mentioning of Morghur and Krakanrok. The lore talks about ambushing but the game mechanic is basically the same that it as in WHFB. They are a melee army that hits like a wet noodle, and their wrscrolls basically stay untouched since AoS 1.0, and when it actually happened to redesign them they went the wrong way: look at the Jabber boosting the worng army, or the Beastlord who got worse. It's an army that lacks good characters: all melee ones are garbage, have low damage output, and have low survivability, I mean the lizard-vampire has a 3+ save, while a Shaggoth has a 4+... Come on, some of those guys are older than Kroak... I'm a big BoC fan, but if this is the plotline the army has to follow, and GW can't sort it out just kill it. I'd prefer that and move the beastmen into the god armies as support troops (tzaangors, slaangors and so on) rather than keep living it the ethernal quagmire. Last thing, the army is old, most of the models are from 10-20 years old, giving them a new Jabber will not sort out the issues (unless the new Jabber is something like the one in Total War and then you make a spam army of those and look them wrack havoc upon the aenemy but I doubt it). Boc need to be taken by GW to the concept board and think it out if they are to endure, cause at the moment they just lack on all the aspects of the game that matter (not only in terms of how good the army is, but also how good it looks, how interseting to play it is, how cool are they mechanics, and even in terms of lore...) PS - Unofrtunatelly most of these things are shared with the Skaven at the moment which is weird considering Skaven are one of the GW's favorites. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrenn Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, dnusha said: BoC battletome foreshadowing. or trolling. unclear. 😐 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higolx Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 18 hours ago, edmc78 said: A canny soul on Reddit noted this looks a lot like a Jabberslyth leg … Nah, I dont think its one. If you compare the current mini and the model in total war, you'll notice that the legs dont exactly match, especially on the feet. The jabberslyth foot is on a 90 degrees position to server as a foot, meanwhile the one on the rumor engine is not and it looks like it wouldnt be able to do the 90 degrees necessary to work as a foot because of extra chitin on the foot hook thing. I could be wrong tho and Im all about plastic kits for resin minis but I think thats not it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaepic Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Do we have any rumours on the January/February release? They like to do a bigger release at the start of the year, makes me wonder if it will be beasts of chaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, Jaepic said: Do we have any rumours on the January/February release? They like to do a bigger release at the start of the year, makes me wonder if it will be beasts of chaos No idea yet mate, hopefully Beasts of Chaos if it's a range refresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: No idea yet mate, hopefully Beasts of Chaos if it's a range refresh. My dream is that Whitefang sends me a private message on my birthday saying: "Gloomspite Gitz are arriving soon"... But... A man can dream 🤣 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy_Diver Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Higolx said: Nah, I dont think its one. If you compare the current mini and the model in total war, you'll notice that the legs dont exactly match, especially on the feet. The jabberslyth foot is on a 90 degrees position to server as a foot, meanwhile the one on the rumor engine is not and it looks like it wouldnt be able to do the 90 degrees necessary to work as a foot because of extra chitin on the foot hook thing. I could be wrong tho and Im all about plastic kits for resin minis but I think thats not it I wanna believe...in Chaos brand fully revamped, from Skaven to Furnace kings... LET THE FINECAST BUUUUUUUURN!!!!!!!! Ehmm... anyway 😁 Edited November 5, 2021 by Holy_Diver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattila Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Right now we have no true rumor at all for AoS (excluded specialist games), right? I mean we know only that the dragons are coming in december, but we have nothing for november and nothing else for december… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrenn Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, rattila said: Right now we have no true rumor at all for AoS (excluded specialist games), right? I mean we know only that the dragons are coming in december, but we have nothing for november and nothing else for december… We don't even know what the tome celestial is for november, do we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 39 minutes ago, Jaepic said: Do we have any rumours on the January/February release? They like to do a bigger release at the start of the year, makes me wonder if it will be beasts of chaos Next new battletome could be Idoneth since it is still (and the last) from 1st edition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 3 hours ago, KingBrodd said: Perhaps the same mistake has been made. Maybe the BOC and Gloomspite box is real except it is just the Jabberslythe model that's new for BOC, seeing as they stated the Spiderfang is a new Scuttleboss. I mean if GW want to keep BoC around, the minimum effort would just to start with making plastic hero since the biggest problem with them is that they only have two plastic hero and one of them is the Tzaangors shaman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JangutzKhan Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Std really need fixing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzhil Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 minute ago, cyrus said: Next new battletome could be Idoneth since it is still (and the last) from 1st edition. IDK will come with other Battletome because the IDK vs X Battlebox is "almost" confirmed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 The rules for the new cultists. They're better than most other ones besides Iron Golems imo, but still don't hold out against Marauders (then again, what does?). I'm glad they aren't all at 1 attack 4/4/-/1. Maybe with the right mark and daemonic power, the Savages could do some decent damage against a bad save. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Enoby said: The rules for the new cultists. Notice how GW was so close, but the the Darkoath Savages unlike the spider guys are NOT cultists, so they can not be battleline and can not benefit from any marks of chaos, continuing the legacy of the sad sad design of the StD faction and book, with everything just being a mess. Talk about salt when they just released a WD update making cultists battleline and marks, then release a super cool looking warband (which by all rights should be the updated marauder kits) and then they do not have the cultist keyword... GW for heck sake! 6 8 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, cyrus said: Next new battletome could be Idoneth since it is still (and the last) from 1st edition. This is a really interesting image and a good indicator of which armies need an update. Personally I am really excited for the future of every army shown here with a particular interest in seeing whats next for Beasts of Chaos, Flesh Eater Courts and Nighthaunt. I feel all three have such amazing concepts but suffer from being early 2.0 books that are relatively straight forward. I have posted some ideas for nighthaunt previously but I feel like FEC and Beasts can be so much more interesting. I think having FEC have more of an effect with their madness effecting enemy units into potentially attacking themselves would be cool... maybe it could be a high cast spell. Beasts are really fun but the herdstone mechanic was not the best executed as it tied an army that was meant to be extremely mobile to a single spot on the battlefield. I think the best solution would be to have the herdstone be an additional spot where beasts may arrive beyond board edges. I think that Idoneth and Gloomspite need some serious warscroll updates to make them more competitive but they are also much more fleshed out in terms of strong thematic rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copywolf Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) I wonder if, in a perhaps upcoming StD update, Darkoath gets expanded on? Edit: What's odd is that the Chieftain and Warqueen can't affect the Savagers with their command ability either. Edited November 5, 2021 by Copywolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Copywolf said: Edit: What's odd is that the Chieftain and Warqueen can't affect the Savagers with their command ability either. Everything about that book and the Darkoath/Cultist/Warcry stuff is odd and a poorly internally and externally balanced mess. Even after a WD tome update it is disjointed and senseless and now they add cultists that are not cultists to add to the confusion and messyness. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: Notice how GW was so close, but the the Darkoath Savages unlike the spider guys are NOT cultists, so they can not be battleline and can not benefit from any marks of chaos, continuing the legacy of the sad sad design of the StD faction and book, with everything just being a mess. Talk about salt when they just released a WD update making cultists battleline and marks, then release a super cool looking warband (which by all rights should be the updated marauder kits) and then they do not have the cultist keyword... GW for heck sake! I didn't notice the lack of a cultist keyword! Well that is a significant blow. I'm hoping it's just a mistake, like the missing Kruelboyz keyword. Not to go too off topic, but Slaves to Darkness is such a bizarrely designed book that feels like it's fighting with itself half the time. It's often so close to being great, only to have some strange restriction or downright bad warscroll holding it back. I know a lot of people really rate the book, but it almost feels like it has too many units in it. It's like the designers weren't allocated enough time to work on the book and so there are tonnes of uninspiring units, or ones that don't work with the allegiance ability, or warscrolls that are just clearly superior. It's not to say a book can't have that many units in it and be good, but the designers need longer to work on massive books like this (and Stormcast!) to make sure each unit has a place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepkin Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Just run the Warcry warbands as marauders I say. They already fudge all the different weapons into "blah blah weapons of various mights" so ****** it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: continuing the legacy of the sad sad design of the StD faction and book, with everything just being a miss. fixed that for ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: Everything about that book and the Darkoath/Cultist/Warcry stuff is odd and a poorly internally and externally balanced mess. Even after a WD tome update it is disjointed and senseless and now they add cultists that are not cultists to add to the confusion and messyness. I also want to go back to the days where Chaos Warriors were actually scary. Now they're just armored jobbers that sit on objectives. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: This is a really interesting image and a good indicator of which armies need an update. Personally I am really excited for the future of every army shown here with a particular interest in seeing whats next for Beasts of Chaos, Flesh Eater Courts and Nighthaunt. I feel all three have such amazing concepts but suffer from being early 2.0 books that are relatively straight forward. I have posted some ideas for nighthaunt previously but I feel like FEC and Beasts can be so much more interesting. I think having FEC have more of an effect with their madness effecting enemy units into potentially attacking themselves would be cool... maybe it could be a high cast spell. Beasts are really fun but the herdstone mechanic was not the best executed as it tied an army that was meant to be extremely mobile to a single spot on the battlefield. I think the best solution would be to have the herdstone be an additional spot where beasts may arrive beyond board edges. I think that Idoneth and Gloomspite need some serious warscroll updates to make them more competitive but they are also much more fleshed out in terms of strong thematic rules. I think my concern with these tomes getting books soon is we see from the Stormcast book they have stripped a lot away from what they got in 2.0, so while we would hope for some fun things for BoC and Nighthaunt, i fear they will not get a huge amount more than they had, if not less (hopefully the unit rules will still be improved). Edited November 5, 2021 by stato 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Enoby said: The rules for the new cultists. They're better than most other ones besides Iron Golems imo, but still don't hold out against Marauders (then again, what does?). I'm glad they aren't all at 1 attack 4/4/-/1. Maybe with the right mark and daemonic power, the Savages could do some decent damage against a bad save. Oh these rules seem really fun, I still hope they pair down the rules of Cultists into a single warscroll with more specific special rules that are combined with reinforcements (eg. Corvus Cabal Cultists can reinforce with Untamed Beasts making a speedier Cultist unit). I know it will never happen but it would be such an interesting and unique mechanic. However, as it stands now these are really fun rules and these units will likely only be summoned on as rally the tribes with my Ravagers list. I actually really like that mechanic as it feels really fluffy and I love the idea of locals donning their spider masks and joining in the fray when they see some hulking Viking knights pass by. I still think the issue for these warscrolls is due to the complete superiority of Marauders relative to the these other warbands. I still use Warcry cultists as I have access to them and they are much better models but it makes me sad that they have such ill conceived rules and do not combine in any meaningful way on the battlefield. Still Warcry is a fantastic game and I might pick it up depending whats on offer for Battleforces... or I might get some Varanguard as I have wanted them since getting into AOS. Here is my Brood mock up, my army uses a red and white scheme, so I would have all the fabric be made of spider silk and I use green to indicate mutation and I like the idea that they are turning into spiders not simply wearing them: Edited November 5, 2021 by Neverchosen 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnusha Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 they have darkoath keyword, but darkoath chieftain, quenn and WU warband GODSWORN HUNT don't have it. Maybe it's new sign of warcry 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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