Fyrenn

Wow, just looked at the sprues and brews article. The army of renown has battleline vampires!

for those of us who don't have access to the facebook page... can you share what you're learning?

Ahh, fair point. I think I made an assumption with the battlebox for sure... Is there a reason you think there will be a std battlebox? They only announced them for winter while the two destruction for fall (tho I suppose they probably just announced std early because of the leak)

I have a question/ theory. We know about the two destruction tomes and keep trying to decide if it's sob, gitz, or ogors. What if they are technically releasing all three, but only two with tomes? Sob theoretically could be a model release of brodd with his warscroll. They have the celestial update and I can't see much else to add right now. This let's ogors / gitz be a battlebox, which seems easier. New spiderfang hero with a squad of old spider riders and some troggoth vs a new butcher and some big boys makes a battlebox that works. I just don't see a battlebox with sob that would practically work very well. Heck it could even be reversed with sob and ogors being the tomes, but I don't know them to often not put a tome out with a box release. Is there any past history of this sort of possibility.

hmm, you're right! apologies. Idk, I know i had prebought them and everything and was somehow convinced i couldn't use them. I know they don't have warherd / gor / etc, so I guess that must have been it - and then they just got put someplace in my mind to be utterly forgotten 😐 edit: I think it's because in third edition there is a bit about "faction pitched battle profile", and i don't think they are in the BoC one. I think this was a change, and i'm not sure it's as intended but I don't think there's a specific rule that lets you have anything in your army with a matching keyword anymore - it needs to an ally (which it can't be because of slaneesh) or on the BoC faction pitched battle profile list. If it's on the app, they obviously can so the point is moot. I also would argue it's not like anyone was trying to so maybe it's just been an oversight one way or another. Is there anywhere in the 3rd edition rules that says you can have elements in your army from outside your faction if they share a keyword? <confused>

It looks like from the screenshots I've seen that the new "Tzaangor Hosts" no longer have the BoC keyword. Can't tell if it's the same for enlightened but i imagine so. What does this mean? Do we still use the old warscroll without concern, or does this mean they're being removed from the faction? (or are they fine for now but probably have their days numbered and will be removed or restricted to a subfaction whenever a new BoC book arrives)?

they don't have the keyword... never did.

lucky you 😞 I've had a habit of being on vacation for every preview over the past year (I remember sitting in my car up a road for the Dominion reveal where I could squeak out a little wifi on my phone). This time i'm going to miss it completely, i think that day doesn't exist for me (flying from NY to Australia). Nothing like getting to see these things live as they happen. It's one of the few hype things GAW does that I really do appreciate.

But it is concerning if we are talking a 12 month timeframe as opposed to through the rest of the year. While a lot of books might be fine with a single char and updated rules, I really worry for BoC. I don't see much change of a new bullgors anymore as ogroids seem to be similar in a lot of ways, even with loadouts options. They feel like redundant kits, yet the ogroids seem specifically non beast like to be used in both books. I still feel boc would need at least a medium size release, and it seems unlikely at first glance that two substantial releases would both be chaos without something else in-between. One thing I theorized was that boc was going to get new models by way of warcry, like a new jabber and shaggoth and/or other new beasties - then a minimal release like suggested - but idk, I feel it's already been a pretty long haul waiting for news.. if they were going that route they probably couldn't release until after those warcry options and it just seems to leave them in 'idefinitelty waiting' again.

I was wondering if perhaps the leaks, intentional or not, might have to do with not the std battletome being announced anytime soon, but many of the minis - figure that the warcry bands might be announced next week. That's like half the new models and they could, in theory, be released way before the tome. It would have caused a lot of speculation.and perhaps this puts to bed the question of a new tome or not being a big discussion after fest when they likely want the newer releases to have more of the buzz

In general, we have been so sure the chaos release this summer is skaven, but in a way, wasnt the rumor that something skaven was coming? I do remember one rumor - I don't recall where - indicating a goat head and saying they were next or soon. Is it possible that we had it wrong and the skaven release was the mini one and the summer release is boc? It fits more narratively, and it's a great foil for Sylvies. I thing the rumors only went to bed with the time celestial, but how much can we really trust that means anything? Just saying... Is there a dare to hope?

I mean - it's not that I disagree with some of your assessment on the overall meta, and what might be over all trends of what might be good or bad... I honestly think the herdstone hill is a weird one to go after. It's way, way too early to see how much effect it has on what has been a subpar army list. The way you write it, it would be as if they're somehow going to be top tier. I don't think they are. I think that GW has some armies that now throw around a lot of rend (like BoC, which argueably they always should have been (and have historically) done in the past. Alternatively they have other armies that do a lot of MWs, which BoC does not do. Again, I understand you're just using it as an example for your critique, and it is a recent change, but I don't really think it's game breaking as much as you think. It's overkill for some things (Bullgors) and it's just getting them to par positions for others (Dragon Ogors). At least, that's how I see it. If my sad little BoC suddenly become unstoppable, i'll be happy to eat my hat for you 🙂

All BoC stuff.

Leaks you say? Tell us more! Italian scans again or something? 12 pages seems pretty good for these comparatively, right?

I'm visiting our new house in Australia and my sister in law brought over original heroquest. It was nice to see the Fimir again - I wanted them as proxies for Minotaurs, but alas... too late! I really wish they'd just release them in plastic. Destruction, Chaos, I don't even care.

BoC is in such a tricky place. If they weren't getting the Feb Tome Celestial update, i'd say they are really due as well by now - aren't they now the oldest after nighthaunt? The question is whether the Tome Celestial's actually mean much anymore. If nothing is coming for the next 6 months anyway, does it matter if they get a TC now? I'd reckon probably not at this point... I think the one thing that is likely is it will be these summer releases that are big (or at least bigger) - it doesn't seem like we have much more coming for Fyreslayers, Idoneth, or DoK - and maybe there's a surprise or two for Nighthaunt based on rumor engines. Really reads to me whatever is coming in summer is going to be the 'big' update, and then a thought of: 1) who needs it the most (Rules/Minis) 2) who deserves it the most (Rules/Minis) 3) which is going to be the most profitable for GW 4) whatever GW decides because while they may be cognizant of the above, I doubt any of it really matters beyond unknowable whims of their own 😉 I personally doubt it's going to be a completely new army yet, tho... Someone should really be doing odds on this stuff 🙂

I had seen that the first four are known from the warcom article - but two are unknown in the summer - one chaos, and one order. They just had filler images and are not yet revealed. People are making guesses of Sylvaneth / Skaven, but it's really not based on anything other then hopes and who 'needs' a book. it IS worth saying I do think those are going to be potentially the 'bigger' releases, whatever they might be... as it seems likely there is not much else coming for the other four (except likely something else for nighthaunt based on rumor engines) In past months I would have maybe even been hopeful about BoC for the summer chaos release, but they're getting a rules update this month in WD... so I'm just not so sure. It's also worth noting this is just through summer - nothing about fall/winter yet. But still, I think a lot is riding on this WD at this point!

I was thinking one thing they could do is revamp rules to allow marked beast generals that can coalition with gods, or something of that nature. It's honestly the biggest change I could expect that might, in some circumstances, have an impact. Reworking primordial call points is another, and the sort of band aid these things do.

they updated the beastmen in TW with the last update for WTWII; if anything, i'd say they are too easy now... but definitely much improved as far as playable and enjoyable, in a way. Just probably to little too late for people who play the game. Hope it doesn't reflect reality, where beasts are left behind or get a new model or something cool just before they are souped in to chaos or further forgotten in the era 😞 It's hard to get around it, but rehabilitating a forgotten / underserved faction takes time and effort, not a few fluff pieces or a new hero in a box. There are limitations to what GW can do, but in some cases i feel half support is worse then no support. At least that way you know where you stand (for the time being, etc)

Well, that's because there always is one. There are two things coming - the December Balance update (which they confirmed would be in December) and the Winter FAQ, which is usually in December in theory, but often in January in reality. It's not clear if they're going to combine these in to one thing or not.

I'm holding some hope they did specifically say that the balance would address units that don't see the board enough. I literally couldn't think of a better candidate.. but then, I have box tunnel vision

I was thinking of leaning in to the corrupting nature with a unit similar to the old forsaken models - units of other races in mid levels of transformation towards beastial or monsters. Personally, I think one way to help BoC is to deemphasis the goats, and make it more about monsters / monstrous transformation, etc.

Sure, the point is if we are to believe these are stopgaps for armies waiting on updates - why are so many armies in dire need being left in the lurch? it's a white dwarf - it's not like it's impacting sales that much to throw a bone to the factions who really need help. If these new rumors are true, a lot of the ones we've been waiting on and expecting soon - BoC, Gloomspite, Nighthaunt, Skaven - are unlikely to get anything in the next year. Course, maybe more is planned for the rebalance / december faq.

Its always possible they will do it in batches... All elder for the first ten or more, then the background changes and the elder takeover of the rumor engine ends. I don't think they'll change it up while they are pushing the elder advent takeover thing 🙂

Do we think the December FAQ / points update and the December AoS rules update are the same thing this year, or two separate things that will both come out this month? I assumed they'd want to get it out early enough not to interfere with hype when they do the christmas/new years reveals