The Rumour Thread

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I am glad that just when I start feeling like a GW shill, they come out and do something totally incomprehensible.

[yukishiro1]

Although I agree with the general sentiment, I don't think it's really incomprehensible. It's just disappointing, a clear sign that GW's overwhelming interest in AOS is still simply selling people more plastic, not the state of the game rules. They just don't care much about the rules. 

I actually kinda wish phoning in a half-arsed FAQ was incomprehensible, because that would say better things about the company. 

[Boar]

3 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

Although I agree with the general sentiment, I don't think it's really incomprehensible. It's just disappointing, a clear sign that GW's overwhelming interest in AOS is still simply selling people more plastic, not the state of the game rules. They just don't care much about the rules. 

I actually kinda wish phoning in a half-arsed FAQ was incomprehensible, because that would say better things about the company. 

I would argue that many of us didn't expect something good just passable, and yet we were disappointed anyway. It's just step too much

[Feii]

Just now, Boar said:

I would argue that many of us didn't expect something good just passable, and yet we were disappointed anyway. It's just step too much

I was postponing my new army because I was expecting some point changes but this way I am not sure if we arent gonna get another FaQ much sooner than normally or if the uproar won't change their mind so postponing again eh? 

Really doesn't make sense for me to get an army that isn't that bad only to be destroyed by some point FaQ in 2-3 months... I am not a meta gamer I own a fluffy sempiternal SCE army rn but wanted something more competitive hope it's understandable. 

[JackStreicher]

What did I miss?

[Nighthaunt Noob]

People can't play in person and GW's sales are higher than ever. They really don't have that much business incentive to invest a lot of time in rules and points tweaks, especially if 3.0 is going to hit later this year and shake some things up.

I do however agree that their excuse is lame considering 40k got points updates but I also get why this isn't really a priority for them.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Nighthaunt Noob

[Nasnad]

24 minutes ago, Feii said:

Really doesn't make sense for me to get an army that isn't that bad only to be destroyed by some point FaQ in 2-3 months... I am not a meta gamer I own a fluffy sempiternal SCE army rn but wanted something more competitive hope it's understandable. 

This could happen to any army, with the next faq, or a generals handbook. Properly not a good idea do base army choice on that, unless you are a high level tournament player

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

20 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

People can't play in person and GW's sales are higher than ever. They really don't have that much business incentive to invest a lot of time in rules and points tweaks, especially if 3.0 is going to hit later this year and shake some things up.

AoS 3 is at the end of this year at the earliest. And "They just care more about money than customer satisfaction" is also not really an excuse.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[yukishiro1]

Oh, it's certainly not an excuse. But with GW, it frequently is an explanation.

As someone else said elsewhere, if they were being honest they would have simply said: "lol we couldn't be bothered and we know you will keep buying our stuff anyway because we just had our best year ever despite most people being unable to play."

The rules only exist to sell plastic. As long as people keep buying plastic, GW does not care about the rules much at all. That's the reality. 

It's definitely disappointing though, especially since they just showed in Morathi that they are actually capable of making good rules when they set their minds to it. Morathi felt like a big step foward for AOS rules design, so it's pretty lame to see them go back to dropping the ball again as soon as the profit motive is gone. 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Ragest]

20 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

Oh, it's certainly not an excuse. But with GW, it frequently is an explanation.

As someone else said elsewhere, if they were being honest they would have simply said: "lol we couldn't be bothered and we know you will keep buying our stuff anyway because we just had our best year ever despite most people being unable to play."

The rules only exist to sell plastic. As long as people keep buying plastic, GW does not care about the rules much at all. That's the reality. 

It's definitely disappointing though, especially since they just showed in Morathi that they are actually capable of making good rules when they set their minds to it. Morathi felt like a big step foward for AOS rules design, so it's pretty lame to see them go back to dropping the ball again as soon as the profit motive is gone. 

 

 

 

The problem is that now you can use rules without plastic, so the worst thing you can do is making competitive players get angry, because they don’t need you anymore to play your game.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Ragest

[Mutton]

The end result here is that we now have to suffer through another 5-6 months of the same problems plaguing the game. Not a good motivator.

[Aleser]

Broken realms book will cover all factions, maybe they are saving changes for those books.

[Ragest]

Just now, Aleser said:

Broken realms book will cover all factions, maybe they are saving changes for those books.

Are you sure about? They didn’t say “every faction is having new rules”

[eciu]

2 minutes ago, Aleser said:

Broken realms book will cover all factions, maybe they are saving changes for those books.

The next year FAQ will also cover all factions!

 

(its funny to see such argument as we dont even know/can be sure when the Teclis will arrive, not to mention other books)

[Overread]

50 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

People can't play in person and GW's sales are higher than ever. They really don't have that much business incentive to invest a lot of time in rules and points tweaks, especially if 3.0 is going to hit later this year and shake some things up.

Just note that AoS at launch shows that there's a difference between temporary inability to play and long term inability to play. Corona is an abnormal temporary event (and even though that there have been unlocks where some have managed the odd game). So right now many of those sales are driven by people hobbying in their excess spare time and money that would have gone on eating out/going to work etc... Once things return to normal that well of money dries up; the time people have reduces and people go back to playing actual games.

However if GW used that to justify not investing into rules because the game didn't matter, they'd wind up back where they were at the start of AoS. Just with a boutique line of models and no game to play which tanked the AoS reception and sales. It was a big enough shake up that they had a CEO and top-level shift around within the company. 

Plus look at consumer drift. GW is the big recruiter for the market, but most of the drift to other brands is often promoted by game rules and gameplay often more so than model quality or design aesthetics. Again if GW wants to maintain their status the game matters, even if just at a functional level. 

[Scurvydog]

So the FAQ was only for a couple of books, I guess they should be done by now, so most battletomes got nothing this time around.

[Nighthaunt Noob]

52 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

AoS 3 is at the end of this year at the earliest. And "They just care more about money than customer satisfaction" is also not really an excuse.

I think my point is the evidence suggests that customers don't seem to care that much about "customer satisfaction", at least as it pertains to rules/gameplay. They mostly just care about good models which is why they're happy to buy even when we're all locked down.

[KingBrodd]

I'm spreading my Hope's and dreams onto Fyreslayers. I would absolutely love a King Brodd/Leader kit or an updated Mancrusher for Underworlds or just AOS but those are years off at best. 

I really hope Fyreslayers recieve the Lumineth treatment and get a massive wave of new units in 3.0

[BaylorCorvette]

I'm just super hype'd about Vampires. I've wanted some great Vampire models for so long and then to use them in a competitive army. While I have a decent Legion of Blood list, it is only so competitive in today's meta and as a result at the start of COVID I put together my Vampire Khorne army. The Underworlds Warband has definitely wetted my apatite for more Vampires and I cannot wait to get those models. Plus the "leak" of the Soulblight Gravelords has given me hope that a new Vamp faction is in the works, be it a LoN update or a proper Soulblight faction. I am certainly curious to see where BR: Teclis goes, since he is going after Nagash, I wonder if that is going to set the stage for these new Vampires? I have to assume it will. Needless to say I cannot wait to see what 2021 has in store for AoS!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I think my point is the evidence suggests that customers don't seem to care that much about "customer satisfaction", at least as it pertains to rules/gameplay. They mostly just care about good models which is why they're happy to buy even when we're all locked down.

I don't know, it seems to me that AoS has been booming since they started treating it as a proper game and caring for customer satisfaction. It just seems really boneheaded to risk going back to the Kirby era with stuff like this.

[Clan's Cynic]

24 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I think my point is the evidence suggests that customers don't seem to care that much about "customer satisfaction", at least as it pertains to rules/gameplay. They mostly just care about good models which is why they're happy to buy even when we're all locked down.

A lot of it comes from GW being the wargaming hobby for so many people and is an unfortunate side effect of GW's market domination. They don't have to write good rules because most people play 40k/AoS and therefore most people stick with 40k/AoS. Even when 7th 40k was a total mess, most of those disenfranchised players just went to Horus Heresy anyway and all the money still ended up in GW's pocket. There's no real incentive for them to improve on the rules, at least insofar as spending money on hiring more people to cover and research them.

It's the same for their proofreading, or lack thereof. GW codexes/battletomes/expansions are some of, if not the, most expensive on the market proportionate for what you get. I grabbed the D-Day British book for Flames of War which is the same 80 pages as a Psychic Awakening book, both hardback, both full colour with art and pictures, both released 2020/21 but that was £10  as opposed to £22.50 for PA. The difference is that people will gladly pay £22.50 (£25 RPP) if not more for GW's offering, whilst the competition among historical wargames demands they be- well, competitive and not risk alienating their audience because they'll happily go and use another company's ruleset. 

Even if I hate their ruleset, be it for gameplay itself or merely being unbalanced, poorly written, etc, I know I can go anywhere in the country and find 40k or AoS players. If people buy GW models during lockdown they know once it lifts they can use those models (and in the US my understanding is a lot already are), but other games? Not so much. Does GW know this or do they genuinely not think they can do better? I'd bet on the former, they're not dumb.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[JackStreicher]

38 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

They mostly just care about good models which is why they're happy to buy even when we're all locked down.

That’s not the reason. The actual reason is manifold:

- People try to keep occupied (painting, building, watching an endless tide of grey rising)

- People Plan armies for games once the Pandemic  ceases

- People might play with their wifes/ children/ room mates and therefor need a second army

- People Are trying to cure the rising mental pressure and decreasing mental health by consumption (hobby goods)

- People like the models and so they buy the models

- Quite a flood of new players that discovered or rediscovered this hobby which keeps them occupied.

Simply claiming that only the Model matters and that‘s why sales rise is losing sight of the complex situation at hand.

On the contrary:

My brothers and I for example have bought as few models as never before during the lockdown. Reasons: Yeah there are cool new models, but I already have enough cool models that need painting. I‘ve sold about 350 models and only bought 30 new ones as I realized that I have enough of everything. 🤷🏼‍♂️ (And the Marketing is rather anti-Hype for me lately).

What about other hobbyists I wonder? Did they buy more or rather less than usual?

Edited January 25, 2021 by JackStreicher

[yukishiro1]

Obviously somebody's been buying a lot more, since they've just had the best year ever by some margin, despite Covid. 

Anecdotally, I got back into the hobby because of Covid - I had a bunch more time to sit around at home and figured it'd be a good way to do something fun at home. And it has been, even if games have been hard to come by. 

Again anecdotally, I had always stayed away from AOS because the rules felt like such a silly mess. I finally jumped in this year because I got the sense that GW was finally treating AOS like a serious game, and Morathi confirmed that impression. But like most things with GW, you have a step backwards for almost every step forwards, and this is a definite step backwards. 

Rules clearly do matter to the long-term health of a game, BTW. I'm not saying they don't. I'm just saying that I don't think GW really takes rules all that seriously except when they are so bad that they start bleeding customers because of it, e.g. 7th edition of 40k or early AOS. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by yukishiro1

[elfhead]

Just to bring a positive note to all this faq discussion: GW did do some rules for solo games you can play in lockdown. So they did do something rulewise, only not for te game which most people can’t play right now anyway.

 

I’m not invested in the faq discussion, because I’m just in the hobby for the painting and building/converting. And I understand the frustration. But I also like this forum to be mostly positive. 

[zilberfrid]

21 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

That’s not the reason. The actual reason is manifold:

- People try to keep occupied (painting, building, watching an endless tide of grey rising)

- People Plan armies for games once the Pandemic  ceases

- People might play with their wifes/ children/ room mates and therefor need a second army

- People Are trying to cure the rising mental pressure and decreasing mental health by consumption (hobby goods)

- People like the models and so they buy the models

- Quite a flood of new players that discovered or rediscovered this hobby which keeps them occupied.

Simply claiming that only the Model matters and that‘s why sales rise is losing sight of the complex situation at hand.

On the contrary:

My brothers and I for example have bought as few models as never before during the lockdown. Reasons: Yeah there are cool new models, but I already have enough cool models that need painting. I‘ve sold about 350 models and only bought 30 new ones as I realized that I have enough of everything. 🤷🏼‍♂️ (And the Marketing is rather anti-Hype for me lately).

What about other hobbyists I wonder? Did they buy more or rather less than usual?

I purchased quite a bit less from GW, and sold/gave away more than I purchased.

In: 2 Blood Bowl teams, 2 Necromunda boxes, etb Chaos cultists, etb Imperial Guard and Skitarii

Out: Some 12 metal dwarves, 78 guard, 73 handgunners/crossbowmen, 4 wizards, 4 Generals.