Minis by Night Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 The same game store published the second part of the price increase list. Read and despair. WARHAMMER 40000: HERO BASESSECTOR MECHANICUS: INDUSTRIAL BASESSECTOR IMPERIALIS: LARGE BASE DETAIL KITSECTOR IMPERIALIS: 25 & 40MM ROUND BASESS/IMPERIALIS: 60MM RD+75/90MM OVAL BASESCITADEL SKIRMISH FIGURE CASECITADEL PALETTE PADCITADEL CRUSADE FIGURE CASEAOS: SHATTERED DOMINION: 65 & 40MM ROUNDAOS: SHATTERED DOMINION: 60 & 90MM OVALAOS SHATTERED DOMINION LARGE BASE DETAILAGE OF SIGMAR HERO BASESSECTOR IMPERIALIS: 32MM ROUND BASESMIDDENLAND TUFTSGW TAPE MEASURECITADEL SKULLSCITADEL PAINTING HANDLECITADEL BATTLE FIGURE CASEAOS: SHATTERED DOMINION: 25 & 32MM ROUNDWANDERERS SISTERS OF THE THORNVAMPIRE COUNTS: TOMB BANSHEETYRANID TYRANNOCYTETYRANID HORMAGAUNT BROODTYRANID GENESTEALERSTYRANID GARGOYLE BROODTHOUSAND SONS MAGNUS THE REDTAU XV95 GHOSTKEEL BATTLESUITTAU EMPIRE TX4 PIRANHAT'AU EMPIRE CADRE FIREBLADESTORMRAVEN GUNSHIPSPACE MARINE VINDICATORSPACE MARINE VENERABLE DREADNOUGHTSPACE MARINE STORMHAWK INTERCEPTORSPACE MARINE LAND SPEEDER STORMSPACE MARINE LAND SPEEDERSPACE MARINE DROP PODSPACE MARINE BIKE SQUADSPACE MARINE ATTACK BIKESPACE MARINE ASSAULT SQUADSKINK STARPRIESTSERAPHON SKINKSORK WARBIKER MOBORK NOBZORK MEK GUNORK KILLA KANSORK BATTLEWAGONOFFICIO PREFECTUS COMMISSARNURGLE ROTBRINGERS LORD OF PLAGUESNIGHTHAUNT CAIRN WRAITHNECRONS TOMB BLADESNECRON CATACOMB CMD BARGE/ANNIHIL. BARGEMORTARION: DAEMON PRIMARCH OF NURGLEMILITARUM AUXILLA BULLGRYNSKHORNE BERZERKERSHARLEQUIN SKYWEAVERSGREY KNIGHTS NEMESIS DREADKNIGHTFYRESLAYERS HEARTHGUARDDRUKHARI KABALITE WARRIORSDEATHWATCH CORVUS BLACKSTARDEATHRATTLE WIGHT KINGDEATHMAGES NECROMANCERDARK ELF SUPREME SORCERESSDARK ELDAR WYCHESDAEMONS OF TZEENTCH FLAMERS OF TZEENTCHDAEMONS OF NURGLE PLAGUEBEARERSCRAFTWORLDS WINDRIDERSCRAFTWORLDS HEMLOCK WRAITHFIGHTERCRAFTWORLDS GUARDIANSCRAFTWORLDS FARSEERCHAOS SPACE MARINES POSSESSEDBLOOD ANGELS FURIOSO DREADNOUGHTASTRA TELEPATHICA SISTERS OF SILENCEASTRA MILITARUM HYDRATYRANID TRYGON/MAWLOCTAU EMPIRE XV104 RIPTIDE BATTLESUITTAU EMPIRE KV128 STORMSURGESYLVANETH TREE-REVENANTSSPACE WOLVES WOLF GUARD TERMINATORSSPACE WOLVES STORMFANG GUNSHIPSPACE WOLVES PACKSPACE MARINE TERMINATOR SQUADSPACE MARINE SCOUTSSPACE MARINE IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHTSKAVEN STORMFIENDSORK WAZBOM BLASTAJETORK TRUKKORK LOOTASNECRON WARRIORS WITH CANOPTEK SCARABSNECRON CANOPTEK SPYDERMUNITORIUM ARMOURED CONTAINERSMILITARUM TEMPESTUS SCIONSHARLEQUIN TROUPEHAMMERHEAD GUNSHIPGREY KNIGHTS PALADIN SQUADDRUKHARI VENOMDRUKHARI TALOSDRUKHARI SCOURGESDRUKHARI RAIDERDEATHWATCH KILL TEAMDEADWALKERS ZOMBIESDAEMONS OF TZEENTCH LORD OF CHANGEDAEMONS OF KHORNE BLOODTHIRSTERCRAFTWORLDS WRAITHKNIGHTCRAFTWORLDS WRAITHGUARDCRAFTWORLDS WAVE SERPENTCRAFTWORLDS DIRE AVENGERSCHAOS SPACE MARINES RHINOCHAOS SPACE MARINES FORGEFIENDBLOOD BOWL (ENGLISH 2016 EDITION)BLOOD ANGELS SANGUINARY GUARDBLOOD ANGELS DEATH COMPANYASTRA MILITARUM VALKYRIEASTRA MILITARUM LEMAN RUSS DEMOLISHERASTRA MILITARUM LEMAN RUSS BATTLE TANKASTRA MILITARUM CHIMERAADEPTUS MECHANICUS ONAGER DUNECRAWLERADEPTUS MECHANICUS ELECTRO-PRIESTSTZEENTCH ARCANITES TZAANGOR ENLIGHTENEDTYRANID TERMAGANT BROODTYRANID HIVE TYRANT / THE SWARMLORDTHOUSAND SONS RUBRIC MARINESTAU EMPIRE XV88 BROADSIDE BATTLESUITTAU EMPIRE XV25 STEALTH BATTLESUITSTAU EMPIRE PATHFINDER TEAMTAU EMPIRE COMMANDERSPACE WOLVES FENRISIAN WOLF PACKSPACE MARINE TACTICAL SQUADSPACE MARINE SCOUTS WITH SNIPER RIFLESSPACE MARINE RAZORBACKSPACE MARINE PREDATORSPACE MARINE DEVASTATOR SQUADORKS GRETCHINORK STORMBOYZORK BOYZNECRON TRIARCH PRAETORIANSNECRON IMMORTALS/DEATHMARKSKHARADRON OVERLORDS ARKANAUT COMPANYDEATHRATTLE SKELETON WARRIORSDAEMONS OF TZEENTCH BLUE HORRORSDAEMONS OF KHORNE BLOODLETTERSCITADEL 12mm DICE SET (6-PACK)CHAOS WARRIORSCHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORSCADIAN HEAVY WEAPON SQUADCADIAN COMMAND SQUADASTRA MILITARUM SENTINELASTRA MILITARUM CADIAN INFANTRY SQUADADEPTUS MECHANICUS SKITARIIADEPTUS MECHANICUS KASTELAN ROBOTSADEPTUS MECHANICUS IRONSTRIDER It looks a lot like the other list leak earlier this week, so I guess that pretty much confirms it. Yeah, I'm full of good news today. Sorry about that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 41 minutes ago, Minis by Night said: The same game store published the second part of the price increase list. Read and despair. WARHAMMER 40000: HERO BASESSECTOR MECHANICUS: INDUSTRIAL BASESSECTOR IMPERIALIS: LARGE BASE DETAIL KITSECTOR IMPERIALIS: 25 & 40MM ROUND BASESS/IMPERIALIS: 60MM RD+75/90MM OVAL BASESCITADEL SKIRMISH FIGURE CASECITADEL PALETTE PADCITADEL CRUSADE FIGURE CASEAOS: SHATTERED DOMINION: 65 & 40MM ROUNDAOS: SHATTERED DOMINION: 60 & 90MM OVALAOS SHATTERED DOMINION LARGE BASE DETAILAGE OF SIGMAR HERO BASESSECTOR IMPERIALIS: 32MM ROUND BASESMIDDENLAND TUFTSGW TAPE MEASURECITADEL SKULLSCITADEL PAINTING HANDLECITADEL BATTLE FIGURE CASEAOS: SHATTERED DOMINION: 25 & 32MM ROUNDWANDERERS SISTERS OF THE THORNVAMPIRE COUNTS: TOMB BANSHEETYRANID TYRANNOCYTETYRANID HORMAGAUNT BROODTYRANID GENESTEALERSTYRANID GARGOYLE BROODTHOUSAND SONS MAGNUS THE REDTAU XV95 GHOSTKEEL BATTLESUITTAU EMPIRE TX4 PIRANHAT'AU EMPIRE CADRE FIREBLADESTORMRAVEN GUNSHIPSPACE MARINE VINDICATORSPACE MARINE VENERABLE DREADNOUGHTSPACE MARINE STORMHAWK INTERCEPTORSPACE MARINE LAND SPEEDER STORMSPACE MARINE LAND SPEEDERSPACE MARINE DROP PODSPACE MARINE BIKE SQUADSPACE MARINE ATTACK BIKESPACE MARINE ASSAULT SQUADSKINK STARPRIESTSERAPHON SKINKSORK WARBIKER MOBORK NOBZORK MEK GUNORK KILLA KANSORK BATTLEWAGONOFFICIO PREFECTUS COMMISSARNURGLE ROTBRINGERS LORD OF PLAGUESNIGHTHAUNT CAIRN WRAITHNECRONS TOMB BLADESNECRON CATACOMB CMD BARGE/ANNIHIL. BARGEMORTARION: DAEMON PRIMARCH OF NURGLEMILITARUM AUXILLA BULLGRYNSKHORNE BERZERKERSHARLEQUIN SKYWEAVERSGREY KNIGHTS NEMESIS DREADKNIGHTFYRESLAYERS HEARTHGUARDDRUKHARI KABALITE WARRIORSDEATHWATCH CORVUS BLACKSTARDEATHRATTLE WIGHT KINGDEATHMAGES NECROMANCERDARK ELF SUPREME SORCERESSDARK ELDAR WYCHESDAEMONS OF TZEENTCH FLAMERS OF TZEENTCHDAEMONS OF NURGLE PLAGUEBEARERSCRAFTWORLDS WINDRIDERSCRAFTWORLDS HEMLOCK WRAITHFIGHTERCRAFTWORLDS GUARDIANSCRAFTWORLDS FARSEERCHAOS SPACE MARINES POSSESSEDBLOOD ANGELS FURIOSO DREADNOUGHTASTRA TELEPATHICA SISTERS OF SILENCEASTRA MILITARUM HYDRATYRANID TRYGON/MAWLOCTAU EMPIRE XV104 RIPTIDE BATTLESUITTAU EMPIRE KV128 STORMSURGESYLVANETH TREE-REVENANTSSPACE WOLVES WOLF GUARD TERMINATORSSPACE WOLVES STORMFANG GUNSHIPSPACE WOLVES PACKSPACE MARINE TERMINATOR SQUADSPACE MARINE SCOUTSSPACE MARINE IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHTSKAVEN STORMFIENDSORK WAZBOM BLASTAJETORK TRUKKORK LOOTASNECRON WARRIORS WITH CANOPTEK SCARABSNECRON CANOPTEK SPYDERMUNITORIUM ARMOURED CONTAINERSMILITARUM TEMPESTUS SCIONSHARLEQUIN TROUPEHAMMERHEAD GUNSHIPGREY KNIGHTS PALADIN SQUADDRUKHARI VENOMDRUKHARI TALOSDRUKHARI SCOURGESDRUKHARI RAIDERDEATHWATCH KILL TEAMDEADWALKERS ZOMBIESDAEMONS OF TZEENTCH LORD OF CHANGEDAEMONS OF KHORNE BLOODTHIRSTERCRAFTWORLDS WRAITHKNIGHTCRAFTWORLDS WRAITHGUARDCRAFTWORLDS WAVE SERPENTCRAFTWORLDS DIRE AVENGERSCHAOS SPACE MARINES RHINOCHAOS SPACE MARINES FORGEFIENDBLOOD BOWL (ENGLISH 2016 EDITION)BLOOD ANGELS SANGUINARY GUARDBLOOD ANGELS DEATH COMPANYASTRA MILITARUM VALKYRIEASTRA MILITARUM LEMAN RUSS DEMOLISHERASTRA MILITARUM LEMAN RUSS BATTLE TANKASTRA MILITARUM CHIMERAADEPTUS MECHANICUS ONAGER DUNECRAWLERADEPTUS MECHANICUS ELECTRO-PRIESTSTZEENTCH ARCANITES TZAANGOR ENLIGHTENEDTYRANID TERMAGANT BROODTYRANID HIVE TYRANT / THE SWARMLORDTHOUSAND SONS RUBRIC MARINESTAU EMPIRE XV88 BROADSIDE BATTLESUITTAU EMPIRE XV25 STEALTH BATTLESUITSTAU EMPIRE PATHFINDER TEAMTAU EMPIRE COMMANDERSPACE WOLVES FENRISIAN WOLF PACKSPACE MARINE TACTICAL SQUADSPACE MARINE SCOUTS WITH SNIPER RIFLESSPACE MARINE RAZORBACKSPACE MARINE PREDATORSPACE MARINE DEVASTATOR SQUADORKS GRETCHINORK STORMBOYZORK BOYZNECRON TRIARCH PRAETORIANSNECRON IMMORTALS/DEATHMARKSKHARADRON OVERLORDS ARKANAUT COMPANYDEATHRATTLE SKELETON WARRIORSDAEMONS OF TZEENTCH BLUE HORRORSDAEMONS OF KHORNE BLOODLETTERSCITADEL 12mm DICE SET (6-PACK)CHAOS WARRIORSCHAOS SPACE MARINE RAPTORSCADIAN HEAVY WEAPON SQUADCADIAN COMMAND SQUADASTRA MILITARUM SENTINELASTRA MILITARUM CADIAN INFANTRY SQUADADEPTUS MECHANICUS SKITARIIADEPTUS MECHANICUS KASTELAN ROBOTSADEPTUS MECHANICUS IRONSTRIDER It looks a lot like the other list leak earlier this week, so I guess that pretty much confirms it. Yeah, I'm full of good news today. Sorry about that. I'M IN A GLASS BOX OF EMOTION 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 and so goes the age of $25 heroes being a thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkanaut Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Release apocalypse... increase prices lol. Well it’s dead now for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtninja Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Barkanaut said: Release apocalypse... increase prices lol. Well it’s dead now for sure. People say this all the time and yet the hobby continues to do well. Besides, Apocalypse rules are like playing EDH or Commander in M:tG - it's for people who already own massive collections and want the opportunity to field all their cool stuff that they don't usually get to use. Price increases every few years are par for the course - and frankly unless you have a good deal of disposable income this hobby is always going to be out of your price range anyway, especially 40k. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsumy Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) So every plastic eldar going up. Despite most of them being 10+years old. and. reapers????? They are around 20 years old models i think? And they are in finecast. They should give them for free. What is the excuse on raising prices on that ****** material. 34€ for 5 little finecast modelscwas allready too much. +++ MOD HAT +++ Corrected your mispelling of finecast... Edited July 4, 2019 by RuneBrush 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkanaut Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, overtninja said: People say this all the time and yet the hobby continues to do well. Besides, Apocalypse rules are like playing EDH or Commander in M:tG - it's for people who already own massive collections and want the opportunity to field all their cool stuff that they don't usually get to use. Price increases every few years are par for the course - and frankly unless you have a good deal of disposable income this hobby is always going to be out of your price range anyway, especially 40k. Fantasy died too. It’s not out of the question they can price stuff too high. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOfSigmar Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) Well, once they finish the design of the model and steel mould created, GW doesn't need to spend much on producing each spruce. So the raising the price of those very very old model doesn't really make sense, unless GW need to renew the steel mould recently...... By the way, I just get into this hobby about a year, how often did GW increase the product's price in such a wide range? If it is something like 5 to 10 years, maybe it is still acceptable. Edited July 4, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanzou Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Minis by Night said: @the_master288There's an economic concept called inflation that dictates that pretty much everything increase in cost (and value, to an extend) over time. A kit that was released 5 years ago with no price increase is now a little over 10% underpriced. So once in a while you need to rise prices to keep the price of older kits in line with the newer products. There's also externalities to take into account: the cost of materials (mostly plastic, but also paper and cardboard), shipping, maintenance of installation, salary of employees... all of those have more than likely risen in the last few years. Brexit probably doesn't help, but it's hard to tell how much of an effect it has. It certainly cause uncertainty in the markets which is never a good thing. And that new factory means they took a VERY big loan that will need to be repaid. The factory isn't online yet, and I doubt they built it to reduce cost, more than likely it's just to increase production. Sorry to say, but in truth many of these models were increased in price 20 to 25 percent which is absurd to place on “inflation” when these were luxury prices to begin with. Increasing lord of change from 115 to 140 USD is literally just price gouging. I would argue that even in this economy model production costs are highest in the upfront research and development phase. A decent number of models on this list are beyond outdated in quality and design. In a normal economy, that could even give reason to lower prices and go on sale until they update the range- otherwise people might move to 3rd party or other means to get these models. Never mind might, some of us already do. But I understand GW will continue testing the water until if/when the price bubble bursts. (A little off-topic, but I would have a lot more sympathy towards new factory and warehouse costs if they had invested in that expansion BEFORE they started pulling Age of Sigmar models to push out new, more expensive shinies) Edited July 4, 2019 by Zanzou 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minis by Night Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Zanzou said: Sorry to say, but in truth many of these models were increased in price 20 to 25 percent which is absurd to place on “inflation” when these were luxury prices to begin with. Increasing lord of change from 115 to 140 USD is literally just price gouging. I would argue that even in this economy model production costs are highest in the upfront research and development phase. A decent number of models on this list are beyond outdated in quality and design. In a normal economy, that could even give reason to lower prices and go on sale until they update the range- otherwise people might move to 3rd party or other means to get these models. Never mind might, some of us already do. But I understand GW will continue testing the water until if/when the price bubble bursts. (A little off-topic, but I would have a lot more sympathy towards new factory and warehouse costs if they had invested in that expansion BEFORE they started pulling Age of Sigmar models to push out new, more expensive shinies) There are many reason to increase the prices of products, inflation and externalities are only two of them. I agree that the LOC increase is pretty steep, but some people speculate that it's to bring the price in line with the Great Unclean One and the Keeper of secrets, because they serve the same function in an army. Which is probably why the Verminlord's price is also increasing. Does it seem harsh? Yes! Can they do it with little backlash? Well yes, because on the one hand in a few months we'll have collectively forgotten about the increase, and on the other they have very little competition. There's very few products that can replace the daemon lords (for example), and those that do exist (like Creature Caster) are still fairly expensive. And with many tournaments enforcing a strict "GW models only", it's just "safer" to buy the real thing. Will they lose some sales? Most likely. Will it result in a net loss, versus the additional revenue from the price increase? I'm pretty sure their finance department doesn't think so. But they could be wrong. The costs of R&D and mold production cost are offset over the many years of production of the model, and the models sold today pay for the R&D of products that will be sold in 2-3 years. Also there's very little depreciation of the old models because their purpose stays essentially the same regardless of the age of the design. A clanrat model that is 15 years old serves the same purpose as a clanrat that was designed last week. Until the models are replaced, there is no product to take their place in the market. That's why many very old models have not been replaced yet: it's more or less a net loss for GW. I will agree that GW has a peculiar price structure, but they can afford it because they are the biggest player in a very niche market where competition is not direct (i.e. most companies makes models for their own game, not all for the same game). From what I can tell, the price of a model isn't based solely on it's size, but more often then not on it's role in an army, it's rarity, and how many you are likely to need in an army. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 The Lord of change increase is a good example of the problem. After the loc and the bloodthirster, GW released the Guo at the higher price point. People bought that kit in droves. The excuse people invented for themselves is that the guo is a bigger kit. So then GW released the Keeper at the same price as the Guo. Despite clearly being a smaller kit than the Guo people bought that kit in large numbers. The community has shown that they are willing to pay the higher price. The fungoid shaman and the new sister of battle sold extremely well despite being priced much higher than previous kits of a similar size. GW players have already shown that they more than happy to pay these news prices. The only way to stop these price increases is for us to stop buying GW models, or at least only buy bundle boxes like the recent apocalypse boxes. I personally haven't bought any GW minis since last August. (I was lucky enough to get a few gloomspite things as presents) I probably won't buy anything else this year except Warcry. In the capitalist consumerist would we live in, voting with your wallet is the only things companies understand. People have been complaining about GW prices on the Internet since it began and it hasn't changed a thing. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furuzzolo Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Uhm. Usually the Hammerhall Herald is a reliable source of spoiler, isn't it? This one looks not, tho... Do someone read something here? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said: Uhm. Usually the Hammerhall Herald is a reliable source of spoiler, isn't it? This one looks not, tho... Do someone read something here? It may simply be a nod towards the Elixia bits in the new Generals handbook. However - who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowHills Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 The price increases are pretty indefensible, but this is capitalism. We have to remember that GW are not our friends. We are consumers to be extracted from in order to pay dividends to share holders. Anyway... 1) they are increasing prices on old stock who have largely paid off their moulds. 2) they are increasing prices on heroes and centrepiece models presumably understanding most people will need at least one for their army. 3) UK inflation has been low for the past decade. 4) The weak pound means GW likely benefits GW in terms of the profit they make in the EU and US. 5) They just paid a massive bonus to staff. If that's how much they are paying staff then shareholders are getting even more. So there is basically no reason for these increases other than greed. 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naem Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) You are right but that is not a bad thing. If you look at the graph of the GW shares they almost flat lined for a looong period of time until 2017. If it went on like that chances are our beloved game would have died. So I guess the bottom line is: there is no free cake. If you want awesome minis and good lore and a lot of support for rules etc someone has to pay the bills. And lets be honest, yes its not cheap. But its not like "I have to sell my kidney" kind of expensive. If you spend like a hundred Euros (or Dollars, I am not familiar with the prices of Minis in the US) you get a ton of stuff to paint and can afterwards play with the minis forever. I got my SCE (3000 P atm) for less then 300 € via Forums and ebay and I will need probably the rest of the year to finish painting them. Add like 200 € for paints and supplies and you have a spending of 500 Euros for at least a year of hobby. That's not to bad. Edited July 4, 2019 by Naem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsicle Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 @Naem All good points. Speaking as an Australian where GW Prices are already outrageous though I’m really hoping that we don’t see these price increases flow down to us. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I realise it's basically an annual thing but could this be the other side of the coin to all these efforts GW has been making to allow for varying costs of entry? Start Collecting, Conquest, First Strike & Storm Strike, Kill Team, Shadespire, now Warcry are all there, so why not twist the knife on these other kits once you've reeled the customer in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Just now, sandlemad said: I realise it's basically an annual thing but could this be the other side of the coin to all these efforts GW has been making to allow for varying costs of entry? Start Collecting, Conquest, First Strike & Storm Strike, Kill Team, Shadespire, now Warcry are all there, so why not twist the knife on these other kits once you've reeled the customer in? Because theyve been doing 'varying costs of entry' since the mid 90's, so no I dont think they are trying to 'gouge' buyers. Have people actually looked at the price rises? or is everyone assuming all units are going up by £15 like the Lord of Change, stuff that has changed (majority of things have not changed) has gone up a small amount. Arkanuats have gone up £2.50 to £30. My 2000pt Kharadron army would be a whole £7.50 more expensive, someone get me a stool as I need a sit down after that devastating revelation 😓. I appreciate some armies will go up more, i was going to build a (40k) Guard army, that will now cost £20 more if i have 100 guardsmen, 20p extra per model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, HollowHills said: The price increases are pretty indefensible, but this is capitalism. We have to remember that GW are not our friends. We are consumers to be extracted from in order to pay dividends to share holders. Anyway... 1) they are increasing prices on old stock who have largely paid off their moulds. 2) they are increasing prices on heroes and centrepiece models presumably understanding most people will need at least one for their army. 3) UK inflation has been low for the past decade. 4) The weak pound means GW likely benefits GW in terms of the profit they make in the EU and US. 5) They just paid a massive bonus to staff. If that's how much they are paying staff then shareholders are getting even more. So there is basically no reason for these increases other than greed. Its very easy to get the answers to 4 and 5, its in their annual and half annual reports. second half of 2018 they made £120+m revenue, of which £40m was profit, so 30% of what you pay for something is profit. Individual items will swing obviously with 'savings' items like starter sets not making as much as separate kits. But the fact is overall they only make 30% profit from money we give them, so dont see how them trying to increase that to 31% is indefensible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentdeathz Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 29 minutes ago, stato said: Its very easy to get the answers to 4 and 5, its in their annual and half annual reports. second half of 2018 they made £120+m revenue, of which £40m was profit, so 30% of what you pay for something is profit. Individual items will swing obviously with 'savings' items like starter sets not making as much as separate kits. But the fact is overall they only make 30% profit from money we give them, so dont see how them trying to increase that to 31% is indefensible. I haven't looked at their reports, but are you getting that number by removing all of their expenses barring those inherently required to make the products? If they have invested in a new factory etc for example, then that would eat into the profit heavily and simply looking at profit vs revenue would not tell you how much they make on kits. Especially so if they have made large purchases recently that are not likely to be a quarterly / yearly etc outlay which reduced profit. Another aspect as well is do they break down sales from China made stuff separately too (I doubt it) ? That would also have different profit margins. If you lump them together you wouldnt get an accurate number for either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overtninja Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 9 hours ago, Barkanaut said: Fantasy died too. It’s not out of the question they can price stuff too high. Fantasy had the additional problem that many people had been in the hobby for years and had huge armies already, and weren't buying new models. It also required so many boxes for each unit that it's price was astronomical just based on quantity needed. At least AoS doesn't require huge model counts like fantasy did. That said, it does suck to make the buy-in to start playing higher, and it's going to dissuade people from jumping in. It's really great that there are Meeting Engagements now, they're great for people who are just starting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, silentdeathz said: I haven't looked at their reports, but are you getting that number by removing all of their expenses barring those inherently required to make the products? If they have invested in a new factory etc for example, then that would eat into the profit heavily and simply looking at profit vs revenue would not tell you how much they make on kits. Especially so if they have made large purchases recently that are not likely to be a quarterly / yearly etc outlay which reduced profit. Another aspect as well is do they break down sales from China made stuff separately too (I doubt it) ? That would also have different profit margins. If you lump them together you wouldnt get an accurate number for either. They post half and full year figures, there is a link at the bottom of their home page to investor relations. It mentions new factory and other investments in the business but doesnt specify figures. My post wasnt about individual item profit, because as a business they have a lot of variation and the bottom line is every sale has to contribute to the whole company, they cant drop prices of some items that cost less to produce or other items would have to increase. Imagine how much a battle tome would cost if it had to make 30% profit paid for by its own sales. Buy an army of plastic for £20* and a battletome for £150* (*examples entirely made up based on what everyone says models should cost) Edited July 4, 2019 by stato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandlemad Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, stato said: Because theyve been doing 'varying costs of entry' since the mid 90's, so no I dont think they are trying to 'gouge' buyers. Never to this extent and with something of a hiatus on having lower cost options around 7th/8th edition WHFB (rules that incentivised large units, no real effort at skirmish-level gaming), to their detriment. Gouge might be a slightly more evocative term than the discussion warrants, however accurate, so let's say instead that with the increased variety of low(er) cost ways into the hobby that GW has released in the last three years, they may have felt that the market could bear an increase on these other kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, sandlemad said: Never to this extent and with something of a hiatus on having lower cost options around 7th/8th edition WHFB (rules that incentivised large units, no real effort at skirmish-level gaming), to their detriment. Gouge might be a slightly more evocative term than the discussion warrants, however accurate, so let's say instead that with the increased variety of low(er) cost ways into the hobby that GW has released in the last three years, they may have felt that the market could bear an increase on these other kits. The units they increased went up by £1 - £2.50, a 10% or less increase, with only a few exceptions. Mostly these were units cheaper than the alternatives in other factions. So yes i think they thought the market could bear the increase, given its so small and wasnt a range wide increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Fantasy had several problems and price was only one part and often as not it wasn't the biggest issue overall. 1) GW had kind of ignored it for a long while; I think partly because the Lord of the Rings sat in the same spot and for a good few years was a big earner and one thing they wanted to focus on. This was a major issue because less attention meant less new people getting hyped up and more older gamers drifting away from the game. Heck look at skaven they stil have a lot of metal models and yet they were one of the most popular armies 2) The game didn't scale down all that well, esp for some armies. 2K was the standard it worked at; 1K was ok, 500 it sort of broke. Back then GW wasn't really pushing smaller scale game rules on their own, they were there but buried in the big book and because it wasn't a major focus a lot of newbies didn't really know they were there. So when many started they could burn out before they got to the magical 2K points justin the volume of models needed to be built up. Ergo the delay till "proper gaming" was good great 3) Price, like it or not the bigger armies did cost more so the upfront costs, esp compared to 40K or Lord of the Rings, appeared greater even though in the end the costs are the same. Of course GW tried to smooth this over; battleforces back then cost more but you got a good chunk of models in them. In the end though it was more ignoring it than price and it was more the scale of the game. That had been fine when the game was in the lime light and getting attention because the buzz around it masked over the problems. Plus you had more fired up locals keen on the game to help get new people in. Once they started bleeding older gamers and not recruiting new ones the game was set in a downward spiral. Whilst established gamers might not spend vast amounts on a regular scale they do contribute toward spreading awareness of the game and getting more new people into the game. Once you are losing on both ends the market only dwindles. With AoS we can already see that whilst 2K is "the standard" they've also upped the points a lot. Comparing demons between 40K and AoS you can see those 40K armies able to put down more models for the same points value. I expect this to evolve with AoS as editions come out- we'll either see them rise to 3K and higher or see the points lower to allow more models into the game. That iwll happen on its own as it happens with most wargames as you get more players with bigger collections wanting games. GW is jsut keepinga strong eye on 1K points too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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