So, assuming we really will get new Chaos Dwarfs..what do you expect?

[Jator]

Ok, guys, you know what this is about: A new endless spell has been revealed in a very teasing way, and it matches the evil dwarfs' kind of magic.
  This thread is not to discuss if GW is only being cruel with the pointy hats fans or we are really getting new CD, but to canalize our wishlists and fears in one thread.

   Personally, I would like to see:

Dawi-zharr as a Destruction faction: I'm not adamant about this, but I think it would be kinda cool. IIRC, Hashut was killed during the End Times (by Gork and Mork, nonetheless), at least according to Reynolds unofficial expanded universe, so there is little point in keeping the "chaos" tag for them (I mean, besides being mutated and making deals with the slaves of darkness). Their way of life is more organized than your typical destruction faction, but their society is pretty destructive nonetheless.
  A stronger case can be made about they remaining in the chaos allegiance, but being destruction would add some variety to a grand allegiance that really needs it and maybe warm the heart of its players.

 Hobgoblins: Sure, I talk about variety above, but some more greenskin won't hurt!. Maybe this new ones would be a race created by the dawi-zharr using grot prisoners and modeled after their slaves of yore.
  They really are not needed, but they were one of my favourite races of the Old World, along skavens and goblins (I do have a type).

  What I expect:
  An off the charts steampunk aesthetic, and bull motifs everywhere. A safe bet, I know.

  What I fear:
  Nothing really. Bring it on!

[MacDuff]

To dream the impossible dream... I think this would be cool, but it would kinda trash the FW versions almost overnight.

[Kronos]

16 minutes ago, MacDuff said:

To dream the impossible dream... I think this would be cool, but it would kinda trash the FW versions almost overnight.

Not neseccarily. Gw did a damn good job making many heresy miniatures into plastic and could do a fantastic job with the Chaos Dwarfs, wouldn’t need to much changing to make them into a sprue, somethingsimilar to black orcs would work. Or, if they wanted they could just flesh out the Chaos Dwarf range with immortals, hogobs, some more machines and characters (lammasu) and of course a Kdaai, they wouldmbe great in plastic as a multi kit with different build/weapon/ unit options.

[Skabnoze]

I think that model is for one of the beastman factions.  The head on it looks the same as the heads of Bullgors.

It would be neat if chaos dwarfs became a mainstream faction, but it seems really unlikely to happen anytime soon.

[Thebiggesthat]

They are a FW army, and staying that way unfortunately. They do not even really fit in AoS and by all accounts would be compendium,were it not for the shear cost, and the fact they had a character series model designed 

[michu]

You say "do not fit AoS" when they are mentioned in Core Rules, have a fortress in Shyish and were described in Spear of Shadows as Furnace Kings that make weapons for other Chaos forces. "Does not fit AoS" shouldn't be an argument, because everything fits in the Mortal Realms.

[Barkanaut]

They will never get models from GW ever. The end. Your just setting yourself up for disappointment. If that's even a spell specific to an army and not a generic spell its likely beastmen or darkoath. 

[EccentricCircle]

The endless spell looks perfect for Chaos Dwarves, but I don't want to get my hopes up too much, just in case.

That said, a Chaos Dwarf release would be fairly straight forward, and wouldn't actually have to conflict with the forge world stuff at all. The Legion of Azgorh have always been a subfaction of the larger Dawi Zharr race. In the Old World they were a seperate fortress which to the central Zharr Niggrund chaos dwarves. The main line (albeit discontinued) had a strongly babylonian feel, with very ornate armour, weapons and siege equipment. The Azgorhites are the extremely steampunk version with the Iron Daemons etc.

Azgorhite Chaos dwarves only have big hats when they are lords or officers, while they were common on the troops of the regular Chaos Dwarves. This is basically a mark of status. Only the elites have the hats, not the Ironsworn and Fireglaives, who are second class citizens.

There is definitely room for them to build upon the references to the Chaos Duardin in the core book, without stepping on the toes of the Legion. That said I think they should step on their toes a little bit, because steampunk is awesome, and is very much the Duardin's schtick in AoS.

I think that a plastic Chaos Dwarf line needs to include the following.

1) Iron Daemon/skullcracker.

The big plastic centerpiece. Something on the same scale as the new black coach. Usually these kits don't have alternate builds, but in this case fitting skullcracker blades to the front is fairly straightforward, so why not. By making this the centre piece it can actually be bigger and more complex than the forgeworld kit, and the two can be run side by side as different classes of Iron Daemon. I believe that they've discontinued the skullcracker, so a plastic version would be very welcome.

2) Lord on Taurus/ Sorcerer on Lammasu.

This should be a slightly smaller kit, so that the Drazoath model from forgeworld still stands out as a centerpiece. However it can be much larger and more dynamic than the old metal kits. Since you can swap out heads etc easily in plastic you can have options for both the Taurus and Lammasu, and whichever hero you don't have as the rider could be assembled on foot as with the Fyreslayer and Daughters of Khaine kits. Thus this becomes your central hero box.

3) Bull Centaurs

The savage renders and oversized tauruks in the forgeworld line represent bull centaurs of a very different style to the old metal models, so you could easily have a (slightly) smaller set which builds five cavalry sized centaurs. Give them the elaborate mesopotamian style of their forebears rather than the savage look of the current models, and the two will clearly be different warscrolls.

4) Troops

I reckon you can do a box that builds either Axemen or Blunderbusses. By giving them the big hat look, and pitching them as immortals you keep them distinct from the Ironsworn and Fireglaives. Maybe include masks as an option, for those who don't like massive hats. Equally they could have two different kits, so that you can build a ten man warrior squad, with a two weapon alternate build, and then a five man ranged squad, much as the Kharadron Overlords have. I think that there is a lot of potential here to massively expand the variety of chaos dwarf troops, and by allying with LoA you open things up even more.

5) Artillery

The sky is the limit for awesome Chaos Dwarf machines. You can reinterpret the older cannons and rockets, but those are maybe a little tame by modern standards. Magma cannons and the like are kind of already covered by FW, but you could do a kit along the lines of the Ork Mech Guns, which builds a variety of different wacky artillery pieces. I'm thinking of Battering Ram cannons, Fire spewers, Skullcrackers/whirlwinds, Hellcannons and the like.

Really you can get as crazy as you like, since their over the top steampunk aesthetic lends itself well to innovations. If you go down the forge master route then you could absolutely give them something like the old anvil of doom.

6) Heroes

I'd guess we'd get one named hero, maybe in the style of the old Astrogoth model, then a couple of blister packs of sorcerers, daemonsmiths, lords on foot etc. If half of these are built from other kits then you wouldn't need too much really.

I could see this being a smallish release of five kits to cover the old archetypes and synergise with the FW stuff, or a large scale release on the scale of the Idoneth or Nighthaunt. It really depends on how much they want to invest in the line, and whether they plan to massively re-imagine it.

 

[Greyshadow]

This looks like part of the Brayheard release as rumoured by the (reliable) rumour monger @LLV. (I love the Dawi-Zharr too but I don't think that's what this is).

[HorticulusTGA]

I must say after seeing the bull, and the way it is described both on Facebook and on the Live blog, I am REALLY intrigued.....

The way GW puts it, it's clear it's a Faction-specific Endless spell ; which fits the Shadow of Hashut spell description from @Kirjava13's post here : 

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/217-the-rumour-thread/?page=586&tab=comments#comment-248763 

And it's true the main "Studio" fluff always contained hints or direct mentions of the Dawi Zharr (in Realmgate Wars, etc.), in addition to Forge World and Black Library.

In fact, there is now as much hints and mentions of Chaos Dwarf in the new Core Book (p. 40, p. 96,) than there was for Kharadrons in AOS 1 "main" book.

I'd say : yeah it's a Forge World army, but then look at the Adeptus Custodes codex....

It's so strange, so "out of the radar".... Probably Beastmen / Darkoath.

 

 

[EccentricCircle]

Its also worth noting that the recent update to the Legion of Azgorh compendium also gave them the "Dawi Zharr" keyword, which they were previously lacking. This doesn't necessarily mean that more Chaos Dwarves are coming, but it does mean that they have deliberately set up the warscrolls to allow for more Dawi Zharr which are not also part of the legion.

[Nos]

I don't think they would give an army a spell which is basically a unit they already have.

Cavalry and Monsters: Bull Hybrids

Endless Spell: Bull Hybrid

[michu]

Well, I imagine that they could make Dawi Zharr mixed with Brayherds. Beastmen would be a replacement for Hobgoblins (and they are more fitting for Hashut followers).

[Nos]

You'd have to work really hard to square the circle of Beastmen being enslaved though. 

[Oldshrimpeyes]

If Chaos Dwarves come back and become a destruction faction I will weep at the cruelty displayed by GW. It's unlikely I'd ever recover.

[KHHaunts]

I really dont see this being for brayheards.

I know its a bull but Brayhears seems way to obvious. plus the fiery effect has nothing to do with them.

Im suprised more people arent convinced its the Chaos Duardin in some form or another because i am.

I can see no legitimate reason why it wouldnt be.

As for what faction they belong to? im on the fence at this point.

[Blueraven84]

2 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

I must say after seeing the bull, and the way it is described both on Facebook and on the Live blog, I am REALLY intrigued.....

The way GW puts it, it's clear it's a Faction-specific Endless spell ; which fits the Shadow of Hashut spell description from @Kirjava13's post here : 

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/217-the-rumour-thread/?page=586&tab=comments#comment-248763 

And it's true the main "Studio" fluff always contained hints or direct mentions of the Dawi Zharr (in Realmgate Wars, etc.), in addition to Forge World and Black Library.

In fact, there is now as much hints and mentions of Chaos Dwarf in the new Core Book (p. 40, p. 96,) than there was for Kharadrons in AOS 1 "main" book.

I'd say : yeah it's a Forge World army, but then look at the Adeptus Custodes codex....

It's so strange, so "out of the radar".... Probably Beastmen / Darkoath.

 

 

If GW has ready dawi zharr army waiting to be released, that would be like worlds best kept secret ever. I just don't see them releasing plastic one off spell for army that is otherwise resin.

 

Forgeworld stuff ain't that readily available at the flgs and that conversation would be interesting to hear between customer and store owner. 

 

"What is this spell" - oh u see it's for the army that you have to order online only and it will cost you arm and a leg"

I know they have been trying to close the gap between Forge and Gw with plastic Horus Heresy releases and so and so forth, but I really think this spell just has to be Beastmen related. (It even has the same head as Ghorgor)

[Satyrical Sophist]

I was wondering if it was both Darkoath and Dawi Zharr, with some Chaos dwarfs included with the new Dark oath release. Like Tzaangor with Disciples of Tzeentch. In the fluff the Dawi Zharr quite often ended up being hired by chaos forces, and it would be a way of seeing if there is further interest. Could do it with maybe 2-3 boxes, giving you some kind of battleline forge guard, some kind of artillery, and maybe something a bit more flash. 

If it's well received, they can expand it out to a full faction, and you still get to use the models you made for dark oath 

[Oldshrimpeyes]

I think in all likelihood this is part of a box set of endless spells for Chaos sorcerors. I don't think it's a coincidence it so clearly mimics the aesthetics of that Chaos Dwarf spell. However, I would say it's just a nod to the past and designed to provoke exactly this kind of rampant discussion.

Saying that though, if I'm wrong and it's a full chaos dwarf release, I need to start looking into a remortgage.

[Honk]

It’s going to be chaos dwarves and they will be condemned to be order, because when you forge with souls, you‘ve got to be in line with Sigmar *pukeemoji

XD

 

[EccentricCircle]

In the Warhammer Community facebook post of the picture they say " which Faction would summon such a primal manifestation?" Primal would be an odd adjective to use to refer to the Chaos Dwarves, who are actually one of the more orderly and civilized of chaos races (albeit cruel and tyranic.)

A primal faction sounds much more like Beastmen and Darkoath, which is why i'm not going to get my hopes up for a Dawi Zharr release, much as I would love plastic models for my legions.

[kenshin620]

I already posted this on the Brayherd/Warherd discussion but I'll also put my thoughts here

" While I love chaos dwarfs, I doubt they'll be converted. FW to GW conversions have become incredibly rare with the only real exception in the past 5 years or so being Horus Heresy plastics (and that half counts because it's space marines, and people can always use more space marines). The fact that GW had to "invent" so many new 40k flyers instead of convert the already established FW flyers (such as the Barracuda or the Nightwing) really shows imo that FW products these days stay FW. "

 

Yes you can make the argument "but they made horus heresy plastic!", but that in itself is a fallacy to compare to the niche that is chaos dwarfs. Space are space marines, the most popular faction in the entirety of warhammer by far. Releasing more space marines means more space marines for space marine players to buy to either build straight or convert into modern space marines! I remember how people were utterly obsessed with the MK4 space marine helmets, so releasing an entire plastic box of MK4 marines was probably a money printing idea (and then the MK4 look got reinvented into the Primaris look).

Heck look at the 40k adeptus mechanicus vs the Horus Heresy adeptus mechanic. They look nothing alike! Much the dismay of people wanting plastic battle automatas, and instead have the (subjectively) derpy robots.

 

We know Darkoath is an inevitable, whether or not this is a darkoath spell or somehow brayherds are included in the update is up in the air. Yes I would love plastic chaos dwarfs but it seems so incredibly unlikely. I mean at this point, GW is showing us the 3D renders of Sisters of Battle (tba 2019)! When have they ever shown us renders of anything before!

Edit final thoughts. Plus bringing in another "new faction" (technically new in terms of gw) while old factions are still worrying they'll be squatted does not inspire confidence in the classic range players. Who knows who'll become the next Tomb Kings or Bretonnia.

 

 

 

BUUUT if we get a plastic Hellcannon, I'll be over the moon!

[Elmir]

Part of the Darkoath? It would be nice if they made a book that consolidated many of the non-God specific chaos stuff under one book that has spells from a wide range of chaos backgrounds. 

[AGPO]

It'd be great to see them as part of an Undivided combined book, much like Blades, Maggotkin and Disciples. The old beastmen, darkoath and slaves to darkness, with chaos dwarfs being represented by a plastic daemonsmith sorcerer-engineer and some artillery. If you want a full chaos dwarf army, FW has your back for infantry, bull centaurs etc. 

[Uther the unhinged]

Who lnows if this is a cd spell. I would not be surprised if it is. I think gw have been surprised by the success  of fw LoA. They had to mention furnace kings etc to allow space for LoA in the mortal realms. A few lines here just allows them to exist fluff wise. Fine. But why mention Zharr Vyxaa. There was no need! Why add the dawi zharr key word . They had been finctioning on ApS for a couple of years without that! I suspect gw or fw are looking for an ip protectable cd aesthetic. Hopefully they will come up with one. To be honest beatmen need spme love in AoS too, and if it is their spell good on them. However I think the mood music for cds is good right now