AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion

[warhammernerd]

9 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't get why everyone is doomsaying about Grave Guard and Black Knights right now. First of all, we should appreciate that Gravelords are one of the rarest kinds of updates: The type where lots of old units get resculpts. That's a really, really good sign for the future of the faction. Resculpting old units is less profitable than releasing new ones in the short term (people won't likely replace their 80 skeleton warriors with new sculpts), but it's necessary to keep the faction attractive for new players who don't want to buy 20 year old sculpts. It's a show of faith on the part of GW that people want to keep buying classic undead in AoS.

Here are some facts to keep in mind before we ge too worked up:

• We have not yet seen everything this release has to offer.

We know more vampires are coming, the preview page states that much ( "Kritza is not the only vampire..." )

Direwolves are on the cover of the book and GW facebook is all "wait and see wink" .

• Not only are the derpiest kits getting updates, but passable ones are as well.

Bat swarms, fell bats and even rat swarms are getting new sculpts. Units that did not need new sculpts like skeleton warriors are getting new sculpts. Why are we assuming that other units are scrapped instead of assuming they are getting new sculpts, as well? This update looks like the Necron update from 40k: Everything gets brought up to the same, new standard. Black Knights in particular are 100% safe: You don't release a new Wight King on Steed to squat the current Deathrattle cavalry unit afterwards. They even share a kit with Hexwraiths. They are certain to stick around.

• There are not just updates, but new models as well.

Let's not forget that everything in Cursed City will be playable in Gravelords. That includes the Vrykos Bloodborn, the ogre zombies and the Vargskyr. But why would we assume that it ends there? I'd honestly be surprised if we don't see a new centerpiece and more support for the SOULBLIGHT keyword. The winged vampire from Underworlds, for example, seems like a prime suspect for a new unit. As does the vampire duellist lady, honestly.

I have been predicting that this update will be a handled similarly to the Hedonites update from the moment the vampire lord leaked. Nothing so far seems to contradict that. After the latest reveals, I personally don't see a future where we end up with a half-updated army without anything new and a bunch of options removed.

Finally. 
 

A common sense, informed, non inflammatory reaction. I’d say your likely to be 100% right on all of that.

[JackStreicher]

48 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I don't get why everyone is doomsaying about Grave Guard and Black Knights right now. First of all, we should appreciate that Gravelords are one of the rarest kinds of updates: The type where lots of old units get resculpts. That's a really, really good sign for the future of the faction. Resculpting old units is less profitable than releasing new ones in the short term (people won't likely replace their 80 skeleton warriors with new sculpts), but it's necessary to keep the faction attractive for new players who don't want to buy 20 year old sculpts. It's a show of faith on the part of GW that people want to keep buying classic undead in AoS.

Here are some facts to keep in mind before we ge too worked up:

• We have not yet seen everything this release has to offer.

We know more vampires are coming, the preview page states that much ( "Kritza is not the only vampire..." )

Direwolves are on the cover of the book and GW facebook is all "wait and see wink" .

• Not only are the derpiest kits getting updates, but passable ones are as well.

Bat swarms, fell bats and even rat swarms are getting new sculpts. Units that did not need new sculpts like skeleton warriors are getting new sculpts. Why are we assuming that other units are scrapped instead of assuming they are getting new sculpts, as well? This update looks like the Necron update from 40k: Everything gets brought up to the same, new standard. Black Knights in particular are 100% safe: You don't release a new Wight King on Steed to squat the current Deathrattle cavalry unit afterwards. They even share a kit with Hexwraiths. They are certain to stick around.

• There are not just updates, but new models as well.

Let's not forget that everything in Cursed City will be playable in Gravelords. That includes the Vrykos Bloodborn, the ogre zombies and the Vargskyr. But why would we assume that it ends there? I'd honestly be surprised if we don't see a new centerpiece and more support for the SOULBLIGHT keyword. The winged vampire from Underworlds, for example, seems like a prime suspect for a new unit. As does the vampire duellist lady, honestly.

I have been predicting that this update will be a handled similarly to the Hedonites update from the moment the vampire lord leaked. Nothing so far seems to contradict that. After the latest reveals, I personally don't see a future where we end up with a half-updated army without anything new and a bunch of options removed.

Agreed.

From a logical standpoint I‘d say the following units will get a resculpt and or will be added as new units:

- Grave Guard (the new Skellis look more menacing and are bigger than Grave Guards)

- Dire Wolves

- Necromancer (maybe)

- Undead ogres (due to Ulfencarn)

- Light/Heavy foot vamps (Ulfencarn and WHU)

- A new Center Piece Model (Abyssal Terror) - since there‘s been no recent release or resculpt of an army that did not include a centerpiece Model.

 

I am completely fine with resculpts since you can still use the old models while adding more variety with the new ones. I own 65 painted Skeleton Warriors and I‘ll add at least 40-60 new ones.

Edited March 21, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Siphon]

Black Knights are safe.   They said in the reveal to the mounted Wight King he would look great leading an army of skeletons and black knights.  You really don’t have to worry about them.

 

Grave Guard however?  I may just buy a few more kits and use them as skeletons as I still quite like the looks of them.

[CDM]

1 hour ago, warhammernerd said:

Finally. 
 

A common sense, informed, non inflammatory reaction. I’d say your likely to be 100% right on all of that.

Yeah I agree with this. I feel this faction is going to be large. Not just multiple subfactions that we see in every battlerome but I also think we'll see legion of blood and night in here as well.

Elite vampire army. Deathrattle or deadwalker army . Rat and bat army. Gonna be loads of options. I'm very excited and  I think wveytones going to be happy esosixially as it's quite clear there is more kits to come.

[Doko]

Whats wrong with old skellys kit? Im a order armys player and i gonna buy 100% for sure soulbligths,and i really prefer the grave guard to the new skellys.

I think i gonna try have some as 10 new skellys 10 old skellys and 20 grave guard for my 40 skelly unit.

It gonna be very dinamic and for sure cheaper than the new skellys.

[warhammernerd]

New skellies are amazing. Old skellies are still pretty decent, certainly compared to GW’s originaL iteration, BUT, the existing kit is over 10 years old and when you look at the level of detail and dynamism compared to the new death-rattle... well, it’s another planet.  Also, the old kits were sculpted when ranking up models was a key consideration and for that job, they excelled. 
I cannot wait to finally ditch the 30 dire wolves I’ve hung onto like some awful red headed stepchild. They are F-ugly and I won’t miss them. Also the fell bats I’ve got 9 of, so gross. Might explain why they never seen paint. Also bye bye 140 odd zombies with fists the size of their heads, which I surprisingly I did paint all of. And farewell to 120 skeletons, 40 of which I painted really nicely. 
That said, I’m really unsure about wether to hang onto my 40 old school metal grave guard or not? The plastic ones can get knotted tho.

If btw anyone’s looking to take these off my hands, lemme know and I’ll send some pics and prices. 

[Kyriakin]

23 hours ago, lare2 said:

Okay, I love everything. GW knocking it out the park. Bit worried for my 100 skellies though. What do you think the place for our old bonies will be in this newfangled force? Do you think they'll even have a place? I'm thinking of flogging them off for the new goodness but if they've still got a place... just don't know. 

If you didn't like Zombies (aesthetically-speaking), the old skellies would make pretty good counts-as Zombies.

Some peope don't like the "messy" look of the Zombie trope - especially next to their regal Vampires and armoured medieval-style Undead.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Kyriakin

[JackStreicher]

24 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

New skellies are amazing. Old skellies are still pretty decent, certainly compared to GW’s originaL iteration, BUT, the existing kit is over 10 years old and when you look at the level of detail and dynamism compared to the new death-rattle... well, it’s another planet.  Also, the old kits were sculpted when ranking up models was a key consideration and for that job, they excelled. 
I cannot wait to finally ditch the 30 dire wolves I’ve hung onto like some awful red headed stepchild. They are F-ugly and I won’t miss them. Also the fell bats I’ve got 9 of, so gross. Might explain why they never seen paint. Also bye bye 140 odd zombies with fists the size of their heads, which I surprisingly I did paint all of. And farewell to 120 skeletons, 40 of which I painted really nicely. 
That said, I’m really unsure about wether to hang onto my 40 old school metal grave guard or not? The plastic ones can get knotted tho.

If btw anyone’s looking to take these off my hands, lemme know and I’ll send some pics and prices. 

Why getting rid of the Skeletons? Keep the metal GG for nostalgia

[Charleston]

Do you guys think Black Knights will make a transition as well? I concider the risk of getting a SC! Box of Skeletton Horde and Maligiants which would net 10 Black Knights, a Coven, Manfred or Neferata, some Hosts that can be used as additional details as well as 10 Skelettons. 

[PraetorDragoon]

14 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Do you guys think Black Knights will make a transition as well? I concider the risk of getting a SC! Box of Skeletton Horde and Maligiants which would net 10 Black Knights, a Coven, Manfred or Neferata, some Hosts that can be used as additional details as well as 10 Skelettons. 

I would be shocked if the Black Knights wouldn't end up in Gravelords. So far, it looks like all Vampires, all Skeletons and all Zombies are crossing over.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

24 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Do you guys think Black Knights will make a transition as well? I concider the risk of getting a SC! Box of Skeletton Horde and Maligiants which would net 10 Black Knights, a Coven, Manfred or Neferata, some Hosts that can be used as additional details as well as 10 Skelettons. 

In my opinion, Black Knights are as sure to be in as you can get without being outright confirmed. The real question is whether or not they will get a new sculpt.

[Thamalys]

53 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Some peope don't like the "messy" look of the Zombie trope - especially next to their regal Vampires and armoured medieval-style Undead.

Yep - that'd be me! We don't need zombies or skeletons... just a sufficient (and thus quite small) number of Blood Knights. 

[Siphon]

19 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

In my opinion, Black Knights are as sure to be in as you can get without being outright confirmed. The real question is whether or not they will get a new sculpt.

They have been confirmed.  Go rewatch the Wight King reveal.  The announcer says “this is a Soulblight character and will be sitting alongside things like Black knights and skeletons”

[warhammernerd]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

Why getting rid of the Skeletons? Keep the metal GG for nostalgia

To pay for the new skeles of course!

[warhammernerd]

48 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

In my opinion, Black Knights are as sure to be in as you can get without being outright confirmed. The real question is whether or not they will get a new sculpt.

There is literally no reason to replace the current black knight models. They are excellent, well detailed and very in keeping with current death aesthetic. They are also a dual kit with a nighthaunt battle line unit, so they’d have to discontinue that model too, won’t happen.

[JustAsPlanned]

Just now, warhammernerd said:

There is literally no reason to replace the current black knight models. They are excellent, well detailed and very in keeping with current death aesthetic. They are also a dual kit with a nighthaunt battle line unit, so they’d have to discontinue that model too, won’t happen.

Unless they’re making new Hexwraith models too... 👀

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, warhammernerd said:

There is literally no reason to replace the current black knight models. They are excellent, well detailed and very in keeping with current death aesthetic. They are also a dual kit with a nighthaunt battle line unit, so they’d have to discontinue that model too, won’t happen.

There was no reason to replace the old skeleton kit either, but here we are.

[warhammernerd]

Just now, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

There was no reason to replace the old skeleton kit either, but here we are.

Nah, your wrong there. It was super outdated. And importantly, cursed city boxset needed new undead sculpts as did underworlds. The kits from both of these make the editing skeles stand out like a sore thumb.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, warhammernerd said:

Nah, your wrong there. It was super outdated. And importantly, cursed city boxset needed new undead sculpts as did underworlds. The kits from both of these make the editing skeles stand out like a sore thumb.

I don't necessarily disagree, but after the reveal of new sculpts both for super old kits like Fell Bats and fairly serviceable plastic kits like Skeleton Warriors (which I don't think look worse than Black Knights), I am not very confident in my ability to call what will and what won't get new sculpts.

Here's the thing with Black Knights and Zombie Dragons: One of the big arguments is that the kits won't be replaced because they also see use in Nighthaunt and FEC. But that will always be the case, and GW will have to replace them eventually, right? Surely they will want to do away with this kind of unhappy situation at some point. I don't think it's impossible that we see both new Black Knights and new Hexwraiths that fit the Nighthaunt aesthetic better than the current ones. Especially after that random Nighthaunt hero reveal a while back.

[Honk]

12 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

There was no reason to replace the old skeleton kit either, but here we are.

Still no reason to built a big fire and cry, while watching your beloved figures go into oblivion...

Same with graveguard and other stuff.

I still field naked skellis with scythes from the 90s, of course squared. My green Soul can‘t stand the destruction of plastics and I couldn’t be bothered.

guard can be mixed in as second rank or whatever...

 I‘m not scared what happens to old models. Like your old zombies more...keep them.

 I‘m more thrilled about the feral thralls and the new bats and vermin and what possible roads the book goes.

instead of old families, rather go rabble (vermin and zombies) or go noble (knights) ?!?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, Honk said:

Still no reason to built a big fire and cry, while watching your beloved figures go into oblivion...

Same with graveguard and other stuff.

I still field naked skellis with scythes from the 90s, of course squared. My green Soul can‘t stand the destruction of plastics and I couldn’t be bothered.

guard can be mixed in as second rank or whatever...

 I‘m not scared what happens to old models. Like your old zombies more...keep them.

 I‘m more thrilled about the feral thralls and the new bats and vermin and what possible roads the book goes.

instead of old families, rather go rabble (vermin and zombies) or go noble (knights) ?!?

I'm completely with you. My plan is to snag the last few old sculpt skeletons I need to finish my Deathrattle list for cheap after the get replaced. That way I can have all my skeletons have a unified look. I am still super excited to get to work on new sculpts for a different Gravelords subfaction, like Soulblight or Deadwalkers, though.

[warhammernerd]

Then my good sir, we should talk shop. I have a boat load I’m gonna be getting rid of at a relative steal.

[Evil Bob]

1 hour ago, Honk said:

 

I still field naked skellis with scythes from the 90s, of course squared.

 

So when people see the current scale difference do you say they were malnourished?  Or do you say they were a bunch of kids like I do?

[BrocknerTheBear]

Definately on the side of new black knights and graveguard coming too. 

As stated by others, it would be a way to release the knights from the "dual army" style and allow for a newer hexwraith kit more in design style with the rest of the nighthaunt range ie the dreadblade and mounted knight of shrouds. 

 

[herohammer]

20 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

So when people see the current scale difference do you say they were malnourished?  Or do you say they were a bunch of kids like I do?

90s skellies are actually too big though, compared to the newer models, not too small. A rare case of reverse scale creep like the 90s Daemonettes that are bigger than both the plastics and the Juan Diaz models.