Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[Acid_Nine]

44 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

I just wanted to throw it out there that our special dice are unreadable...

are you kidding, our special dice are any dice colored blue, salmon or coral blue #5

[SPlatte]

4 hours ago, Arka29 said:

Does anyone have any ideas for converting the Ahkelian King to a Queen? I've thought about using parts of Yvraine.

Maybe the body of the Tidecaster? But a different face/head.

 

What are peoples thoughts on the Aspect of the Storm? Havn't seen anybody mentioning him.

[whispersofblood]

Anyone else's experience with eidolons come across as very underwhelming?

I'm about ready to let him go as a competitive model.

[syph0n]

I popped in to Warhammer World earlier and saw the army on display. Seeing it in the flesh gives a totally different impression of the models. I actually don't completely hate the Tidecaster in the flesh, and the Eidolon, Leviadon, Akhelian King and Allopex are fantastic. The Namarti look as good as they do in the books, as do the eels. I don't know why, but expected the King to be more dragon sized, but it is excellent at the site it is. 

[BillyOcean]

2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Anyone else's experience with eidolons come across as very underwhelming?

I'm about ready to let him go as a competitive model.

What has been your experience? Does he die too quickly, or just not do enough on the table? I've also been reconsidering him a little... at first I figured AoSea would be mandatory, but as soon as I start building lists I get annoyed at how many of my points he eats!

[Namiriel]

On Fuethan vs Domhaim, I think the Tidecaster is basically a mandatory general for Fuethan. It does mean Eels aren't battle line, but 3 Reavers aren't that expensive and can follow safely behind, you get huge T1 alpha strike potential from accross the board and can easily stick in a Soulscryer to get in some more t1 charges. Either he follows behind, or comes on alone to help truly massive charges, or brings on a unit that needs to roll a 6 with a reroll? Lots of options and flexibility on deployment with enough speed to redeploy. 

 

If you want an army that takes turtles and no infantry and just rolls up the board to kill some stuff t2 and wipes the board with a King on your huge t3, Domhaim is better. 

They seem similar since they both want Cavalry, but I think they actually push towards distinct builds and strategies. 

[whispersofblood]

Well... in regards to the eidolon. I found him to draw a lot of attention as his spells are quite technical, and can be massively impactful.

But I feel like he would have been much more powerful a year ago. 

He himself is pretty soft, the shooting attack is nice. But with all the debuffs floating around he is mostly only having an effect with his magic or staying alive and almost never both.

I'll try the storm next few days and see how he fits. 

 

After that. I'll probably try 2 tidecasters and an eldritch council archmage.

[Aelfric]

The Briomdar rule on flying states that you cannot ignore enemy models when moving.  Does this mean you can fly Thralls over friendly models, such as Eels for example? 

[Circus of Paint]

35 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

The Briomdar rule on flying states that you cannot ignore enemy models when moving.  Does this mean you can fly Thralls over friendly models, such as Eels for example? 

Nope - it says it isn't actually flying, just that you can ignore terrain when moving.

Through terrain - yes

Through other models - afraid no!

[Siegfried VII]

Regarding the Eidolons I feel that their rules are great but their points cost is not.

For example compare the aspect of the sea with a great unclean one or a lord of change. For 100+ less points the first one is more resilient and almost equaly good with spells and buffs (+3 move with the bell) and the bird is a much better sorcerer. And while I'm ok from a fluff perspective for these two to be better in said categories they shouldn't be so much cheaper in points.

That is the main drawback of the Eidolon in my opinion...

[Knight of Ruin]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

Well... in regards to the eidolon. I found him to draw a lot of attention as his spells are quite technical, and can be massively impactful.

But I feel like he would have been much more powerful a year ago. 

He himself is pretty soft, the shooting attack is nice. But with all the debuffs floating around he is mostly only having an effect with his magic or staying alive and almost never both.

I'll try the storm next few days and see how he fits. 

 

After that. I'll probably try 2 tidecasters and an eldritch council archmage.

Was about to ask what you would think of the storm, then you said you were going to try it  

 

Because the storm heals whenever he charges, and he can retreat and charge. So he feels like he can do more, as all his abilities synergies with what he wants to do: get stuck in combat.  if that makes sense. The durability of the Sea variant comes at the cost of not buffing your casts, so goes against what you want him doing really, even though he provides very powerful spells.

[Aelfric]

12 minutes ago, Circus of Paint said:

Nope - it says it isn't actually flying, just that you can ignore terrain when moving.

Through terrain - yes

Through other models - afraid no!

I thought so, I was just curious that GW felt the need to mention models but only in terms of enemy models and not all models.  

[DantePQ]

Reagrding Aspect of the Sea, I think I won't be taking him to competitive games, for almost same cost I get : 2 Tidecasters, Volturnos. Sure they are not as good at casting as Eidolon is and Volturnos isn't buffin Deepkin as much, but I got 3 models with more wounds, can take artifact (because you got to give Arcane Pearl to Aspect). The problem with Ascpet of the Sea is that his spells have short range and he isn't very tanky or good in combat, sure he got nice attacks and I understand why he cost so much but usually you will need him nearby to cast his spell and give extra bravery and 2 Tide Casters + Volturnos are better at this.  

Aspect of the Storm should be 340 or something, as his melee output is good but not that good and ability is very cool but for so much points you want something very reliable. And that's a problem with both Aspects they cost a lot but they won't be reliable enough for their points as within Battletome there are better options. In my humble opinion they should cost 340 and 400. They got both cool rules but those rules don't always go hand in hand with their role on battlefield.  

[mmimzie]

48 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Reagrding Aspect of the Sea, I think I won't be taking him to competitive games, for almost same cost I get : 2 Tidecasters, Volturnos. Sure they are not as good at casting as Eidolon is and Volturnos isn't buffin Deepkin as much, but I got 3 models with more wounds, can take artifact (because you got to give Arcane Pearl to Aspect). The problem with Ascpet of the Sea is that his spells have short range and he isn't very tanky or good in combat, sure he got nice attacks and I understand why he cost so much but usually you will need him nearby to cast his spell and give extra bravery and 2 Tide Casters + Volturnos are better at this.  

Aspect of the Storm should be 340 or something, as his melee output is good but not that good and ability is very cool but for so much points you want something very reliable. And that's a problem with both Aspects they cost a lot but they won't be reliable enough for their points as within Battletome there are better options. In my humble opinion they should cost 340 and 400. They got both cool rules but those rules don't always go hand in hand with their role on battlefield.  

Yeah i agree on the aspect for sure. As you say aspect of the sea is a good caster, and can be made that much ebtter at caasting with ritual. SO he's a good user of the spells from our lore.  That said your only getting 1 lore spell + like what??? mystic shield or something. The -1 to hit spell is very good, but it's a heavy investment to  get that spell off turn 1 as you either need a vortex or to steed of tides him up.  I think the best thing to compare him to is tempestors with weird ability timing??? Tempestors can more reliably get into range to do thier -1 to hit thing, where as the aspect doesn't. That and the aspect is quite alot squishier.  The sea aspect is all about that -1 to hit spell, but using it is unrealistic when you want it most, which is early in the game. 

As aspect of the storm... hmmmm man he's  goofy right??? it's like your paying for healing that won't really ever happen?? His damage out put is rather low. Like i dont actualy remember the numbers as i ran them a while ago <.< and for what ever reason i never write it down. I feel like the aspect of the sea does damage on par with like the turtle... or the king and thats not per points <.<.... thats just what those models do lol. The turtle i'm barely okay with taking the aspect of the sea?? not sure it brings enough?? 

Tidecasters are cheaper, and ahve access to our honestly quite nice lore of spells???  With ionrach you can get back some of that casting power if you really want to get those spells off.  Also a tidecaster on bale wind or with a support tide caster steed of tiding, you can also -1 to hit some key target as needed with tides of fear, if you feel like that will be impactful enough. 

[Rollcage]

If you compare a unit of 3 Allopex's vs a Aspect of the storm, I'd take the 3 allopexes for 20pts more then the melee storm. 8 more wounds, way better damage output. 

But then you compare a unit of Morrsarr Guard to the Allopex unit.  6 morrsarr guard do even better damage per point as long as they charge, And they have the same amount of wounds for 100 less points. 

This army reminds me of Bretonnia, Loads of lance charges.  bowfire and support magic. 

[Tizianolol]

How competitive can be my idea?

dhom-hain

akelian King 

- general

-lance

aspect of the sea

-arifact : 5+save agains wound or mortal wounds

aspect of the storm

ish tidecaster

Ish soulscryer

20 thralls

2x3 ishlaen guards

10 reavers 

tot 1980

the plan is my cav to tank , and play defensive for turn3.

i can alpha strike 20 thralls with soulscryer to distract opponent turn 2 .

2 aspects start to charge turn 2 . They are strong melee and I'm planning to give my aspect of the sea -1 to hit spell from lore, so I'm able to cast -2 to hit debuff of the key unit and later in the game I can keep one spell to heal . My only doubt is  the low chance to cast rituals.

aspetct of the storm can be very tactic unit. He can retreat and charge all time!  Immagine : turn 2 charge , turn 3 can retreat and charge ( I can fly so I can charge to enemy unit deployed behind). And I attack first !, turn 4 I can do the same with all my units.

about the king, I'm planning to make him charge only turn 3 , with lance he is very scary and turn 4 I can retreat him and charge again.

what do you think about doble aspects? Can be competitive?:)

[Hoseman]

I like the way this army looks with at least one Aspect. I dont know about the best competitive thing but for me the aspects are very good ones to have in your army. 

Btw, if anyone could give me by message or something the maths to calculate the damage of units or the calculations you make to know wich unit is most damage/point optimal I would be thankful, I dont go conpetitive but I like to know that stuff

[Luke1705]

I’m going to be testing out lists with 1 vs 2 Eidolons. I thinking about it, realistically turn 1 you need mystic shield and maybe the cover spell.

Turn 2 you’re charging so cover doesn’t matter, so mystic shield and -1 to hit on d6 units.

Plus I get 9 Eels if I drop an aspect of the sea. Of course, then I need like 8 boxes of eels, but one problem at a time

 

 

[OzAl]

Hi everyone, 

Can I please get some feedback on this list? How strong do you think it is? 

Enclave: Dhom-Hain 
- Re-rolls 1’s to hit when charging with Akhelian and Namarti units 
- Re-rolls failed to wound rolls against monsters with Akhelians 

Leaders
Volturnos (General) 
Eidelon - Aspect of the Sea. Spells: Bolt, Shield, Mists (Heal D3 wounds or do D3 MWs), Tsunami (-1 to hit and -1 bravery to D6 units within 12"), Tide of Fear (-1 to hit and -1 bravery); Artefact: Cloud of Midnight (can't be attacked or attack for one phase per battle)
Soulscryer 
Tidecaster. Spells: Bolt, Shield, Riptide (-1 to hit and D3 MWs), Abyssal Darkness (cover spell)

Battleline
3 x Ishlaen Guard 
6 x Morrsarr Guard 
6 x Morrsarr Guard 
10 x Namarti Thralls
10 x Namarti Thralls 

Gloomtide Shipwreck 

1980 points.

Considering combining the two Namarti units for one unit of 20 but I'm not sold on the idea yet since they have 32mm bases.

List gives the options to: 

- Outflank with 2 units and the Soulscryer 

- Cast multiple -1 to hit de-buffs 

- Shelter from shooting with Ishlaen Guard meatshields 

- Lock a big bad enemy unit in combat for a turn without taking damage (cloud of midnight)

- Reliably remove enemy monsters with Dhom-Hain re-rolls on Morrsarr guard

- Generate prayers more easily 

- Cap objectives early game 

- Strike hard turn 3 

Thoughts?

[Cookiez]

Hey, another report from my games. 

First game was against funny but quite potent SCE list with Ordinator, Steam Tank and Stardrake. We were playing Total Conquest, so a map great for Idoneth. He was a bit unlucky, but in the end I've secured major with good lead. The Morrsarr were star of the game, killing Prime, 10 Liberators and the tank in the end. I left the Stardrake alone and he took only 6 Ishlaen and Venator in 5 turns. Did I ever mention the cover tide is fantastic on the fifth round? It is.

Second game - Kroak plus monster batallion. He was so f* lucky... I was leading in Duality for the two turns, scoring 5 to 0, then in one turn he casted so many spells I lost all my heroes, so we called it a game and went out to eat. Hard matchup, despite his amazing rolls. 

The last game was the repeat of the KO game I had two days ago. Nothing to say here, really... Disturblingly easy matchup, so I've finished second with Kroak winning the whole day.

 

Final thoughts. Aspect of the Sea, while POTENTIALY amazing just doesn't pay for himself. Volturnos is a must - spell protection, extra wound is more important than polearm in combat. One big unit of Morrsarr, 6 or 9 is a must and it MUST strike first and wipe a unit, while Ishlaen can tank opponents activation. I will definitely tweak my list acordlingly.

[syph0n]

I'm looking forward to people using AoStorm. I think it's the better looking model and I hope it is actually a viable model. 

I think if I do delve in, and I'm waiting for the whole line to be available, I'll end up with a variety of options because the models are so good: eel based lists, Thralls and Morphann, Nautilar, Ishlaen and Leviadon... 

[DantePQ]

Changehost and Seraphons will eat Deepkin alive unfortunately, also match up against Daughters of Khaine also looks quite bad. 

[Cookiez]

7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Changehost and Seraphons will eat Deepkin alive unfortunately, also match up against Daughters of Khaine also looks quite bad. 

Changehost is the best list for a reason, but the rest - not at all. Kroaknado is even, depending on the dice from both sides. Today he was rolling threes on d3 and I didn't roll a single 6 from a ship and I needed only 1 more turn to win, while 4+ objective scenarios are slightly favourable to ID. DoK, as far as I can see, is also slightly favourable.

[Skreech Verminking]

14 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Changehost and Seraphons will eat Deepkin alive unfortunately, also match up against Daughters of Khaine also looks quite bad. 

Well they’re definitely not the only army suffering from Changehosts Seraphons and Daughters of khaine?

[Richelieu]

7 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Changehost and Seraphons will eat Deepkin alive unfortunately, also match up against Daughters of Khaine also looks quite bad. 

I actually think the seraphon matchup will be fairly even.   I think seraphons relative lack of burst damage can have a tough time against a thrall regrowth list.  The universal unbind will be quite strong against aspect of sea though.  A kroak list would also be in deep trouble against heavy thrall regen. I think I'm talking myself into a thrall regen list lol.   It could potentially outlast Fyreslayers and Nurgle, both of which are prominent in the meta.  Only downside is that DoK or Khorne or Ironjawz with high burst potential could neuter the list quickly.

DoK I'd put at maybe 55-45 in favor of DoK.  Change host, again I think it could depend on the ID list, but I'd put at 60-40 in favor of tzeentch.