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BillyOcean

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  1. You can take either on disc or on foot. It is explicitly stated in the Battalions section of the Core Rules that you can ignore any subheadings in a unit's warscroll name when comparing it to the unit entries listed in a battalion. If this were not the case then there would lots of problems, for example Stormcast Eternals would never be able to take any Vanguard Raptors in the Justicar Battalion, because there are only warscrolls for Vanguard Raptors (with longstrike xbows) and Vanguard Raptors (with hurricane xbows).
  2. The Lord of Change cannot do this, it's in the FAQ. A 6 and a 2 is still 8 for the LoC's cast attempt. If you are willing to use two DD 6's and a command point to get a casting value of 13, I think it would pretty reasonable for it to be unbindable by most wizards. Even if you don't spend the command point and its a 12, your opponent would be pretty unwise to spend an unbind attempt on that. So in general, I don't believe there would anything super powerful about allowing all destiny dice to be unmodifiable. But I also don't really care any more - it is what it is and the rules and exceptions are least clear now, so I'm happy.
  3. Huzzah, the debate has been settled, thanks very much to the rules team and to everyone here who submitted the question to them - this seems like a great model for how we should proceed in the future when multiple plausible interpretations of a rule exist.
  4. I think this thread serves as the proof that clarification is needed... For all those stating that the rule is absolutely clear to them, you should realize that there are other people who think that the opposite interpretation is absolutely clear. I find that both sides of the argument hold merit, and while I lean towards one interpretation, I don't think my opinion is very important - the only thing I'm interested is an official ruling one way or the other from GW. I encourage everyone participating in the debate to submit the question to AOSFAQ, which will hopefully force their hand to do that.
  5. I agree with that - I'm a Tzeentch player and was already playing Battleshock and Rend the non-broken way before the FAQ, because it didn't seem right and I was sure it would be Errata'd. With the Horror Icon rule I will ask for my opponents interpretation of the FAQ and play it that way (for what its worth, my regular opponents come down on different sides of this). My only point in this argument is that we shouldn't have to make these calls as players, there should be a carefully worded document that doesn't leave it in doubt.
  6. Indeed! And then let's try to apply consistent logic to the Icon rule, where a lot of arguments are hinging on the FAQ's statement that Destiny Dice in a battleshock test count as unmodified. "Counts as" can't mean "different from" in one case, and not the other. I will keep advocating for the position that both of these things are unclear and the Rules Team should be asked to publish a new, carefully-worded FAQ that accurately conveys their intent. I don't see this position as particularly controversial.
  7. OK - if thats your opinion, I respect it. My opinion is that there are two sides to the argument and I want the rules team to adjudicate.
  8. Well, there is a plenty of precedent for Community Team not reflecting Rules Team thinking. And I already said I'm absolutely happy to play it either way, whatever the Rules Team decides. All I'm trying to do is make the case that it does need a clarification from the Rules Team, because its not as black and white as presented here. Do you disagree? You would rather the Rules Team not clarify?
  9. Every dice roll in AoS has both a modified and unmodified value. If I were to naturally role the 1 on the battleshock test, then it would have an unmodified value of 1 and a modified value of 1+(dead models). If I roll a 6 to hit against a unit that is -1 to hit, it has an unmodified value of 6 and modified value of 5, therefore triggering any abilities that work on an unmodified 6, but failing to trigger any abilities that work on a 6+ to hit. etc, etc...
  10. I'm not going to state definitively that you are wrong - as far as I'm concerned whatever the Rules Team (not Community Team) decides on this is how it will be played, and I'm happy with that. But I want to lay out the counter argument to the case you are making, as logically as possible, because I don't think its as simple as you make out. The counter argument goes as follows: According to the core rules "an unmodified dice roll refers to the result after any rerolls but before any modifiers apply”. So there we have our definition of unmodified role. Its what the dice shows after potential rerolls but before we add or subtract any modifiers. According to the FAQ "If you spend a Destiny Dice to replace a battleshock test, the result of that Destiny Dice is modified by the number of models slain from that unit as normal." So... if we are using a Destiny Dice in a Battleshock test we go about modifying it in the normal way. Applying these two rules together: If we use a Destiny Dice in a Battleshock test, we first select the dice, which replaces the roll we would have made. According to the Core Rule quoted above, this gives us the unmodified value of the dice. Then we add the number of dead models, which gives us the modified value of the dice. In other words, if we modify the dice "as normal", as the FAQ dictates, then the Core Rules dictate that the dice has both an unmodified value (before the modifier is applied) and a modified value (after the modifier is applies). If the unmodified value is a 1, then the Pink Horror Icon triggers. Like I said, if the Rules Team decide to come down on the other side, I'm fine with it. But as far as I can see, this is the most consistent way to apply the FAQ in conjunction with the Core Rules definition of modified vs. unmodified. As far as I can see, there is no conflict between the Destiny Dice being modified as normal in Battleshock test, and it still having an unmodified value of 1.
  11. I concur. Trust the community team to muddy up the issue! I would be shocked if the rules team come down with the same ruling because it requires a complete redefining how modifiers are applied. Specifically, in the core rules it states that "an unmodified dice roll refers to the result after any rerolls but before any modifiers apply". A destiny dice is modified as normal by the number of dead models in a battleshock test. Before applying the modifier, the value of the dice is 1, i.e. its unmodified value is 1.. So, it triggers the Pink Horror banner rule. I don't see any other reading of the rule, unless it is specifically reworded to state that destiny dice break the italicized core rule above, i.e. there is no such thing as "before the modifier is applied". It would be a very weird precedent indeed.
  12. This FAQ has raised a lot of questions. And some of those Questions are bound to get Asked Frequently....
  13. I think this is why the "as normal" wording is so important. The normal state of affairs is that we add the modifier to get the modified value, but remember that the dice also has an unmodified value as well.
  14. I don't think the DD / pink horror interaction is ambiguous. In AoS, all dice have both an unmodified value (what it says on the dice) and a modified value (after all modifiers apply). The general destiny dice rule states the dice cannot be modified, meaning that these only have a modified value and no unmodified value. Now the new FAQ says that in the case of battleshock, the destiny dice is modified by the number of slain models "as normal". So, now we are back to the "normal" state of the dice having both a modified and unmodified values. If the unmodified value is a 1, then you get your d6 horrors back.
  15. I (respectfully) disagree based on previous wording, but the FAQ has made a moot point, so not worth arguing about now! 😀
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