Siegfried VII

I've watched this and it is one of the better shows out there for Lumineth, focusing on the rules and strategies rather than complaining or trolling about our rules.. 🙂

This sums it up very well in one sentence me thinks.. 🙂

I believe the unit is very good, no argument there! But in my opinion it will have value with just 2-3 units outside the battalion and it's charge with 6 inches and fly will be very useful in scoring objectives far away reaching behind chaf units or clearing said units from objectives. I think they pointed correctly and will have value in lists. Just not with this combo. In casual games Idon't see people using this strategy anyways and I think casual players won't be bothered with more complex strategies etc, so I believe it won't be used as much in casual games too, but for other reasons.. P.S. I love Lumineth too and WE ARE better than everyone else..🤣🤣 It happens all the time and it has happened to me many times. What people say tha battle plans rarely survive contact with the enemy is quite true.. There were quite a few times something that looked awesome to me on the paper (like the reroll save Stoneguard get from the battalion), as soon as the time came to implement it in battle and saw that the wholly within 12 inches at the combat is very unwieldly and even more unwieldly if you want to get the initiative and go and charge/claim objectives.. As you said we'll see where the dust will settle after some months (or more if 3rd Edition comes so soon as July) and we be proven right or wrong .. Only time will tell.. 🙂

Most units will have enough models to string and do damage to thw Windchargers. They are just 10 wounds with 5+ save. With more careful formation on units a good opponent can mitigate the effect even more. Against a single model it is certainly more doable what your're suggesting. Again this is a very unrealistic in the way that Your opponent will have screens, chaf and can deploy in a way that you won't be able to do such tricks in the first1-2 turns by having each of his units cover the other. There are may armies also who will strike first and be equally fast as you so they may ruin the strategy before you implement it. Armies with shooting will already have the answer.. Seraphon, Kharadron and Tzeentch will deal in short time with this combo. If this combo can be negated by 3 of the top 6 armies with ease, then it is not a good combo for a tournament. I believe good players may try this, but will eventually move away in favour of more solid strategies..

Can you describe how the Windchargers will be able to lockdown units outside or inside the battalion?

Both shows exaggerate. In order to make use of the Batttalion you need either Sevireth or the Windmage to be wholly within12 inches of the windchargers and that limits quite a lot what you can do with the battalion. And the windmage can die quite easily from afar crippling this strategy quite easily.. After some time I believe the windcharger fashion will subside..

If you go for Ymetrica Avelenor and Stonemage for sure. Now regardless of what other way you go a Loreseeker and a Windmage for the teleportation are also safe choices.. 😉

If you want to focus mainly on the Mountain aspect of the army with some support from other aspects (a few vanari/hurakan units) the Ymetrica is the way to go. If you want a more all around list or focus on another aspect Alumnia is the better choice of the two.. If you want to go Ymetrica do not use more than Avelenor as far as Mountain spirits go and use the battalion. So after Avelenor, a Stonemage and 2 large units of Stoneguard, fill the rest with units that complement you weakness, which is speed. A Windmage with teleport, Dawnriders, Windchargers are your options here and if you want projection of power Sentinels or Ballistas can do the trick.. 🙂

But you can't know for sure if power of hysh will be cast. If it fails the Sentinels really almost lose a turn of shooting in terms of damage. Also the 5+ or 6+ may not roll the average. On top of that if the enemy character has a mortal wounds protecion then Sentinels get much less effective. In the end yes fewer dice get rolled but luck is still there. Small heroes could be buffed but then we risk having unkillable deathstar units with tons of buffs to make their damage etc insane.. That too if the opponent has no similar ways to buff their units can lead to advantages one of the two players can't do anything about.. Another example is summoning where the armies that have it end up playing with 500+pts or more which is not very nice in my opinion.. Slaanesh in the new book has overcosted units for that reason I think, but other armies just play with more points.. In the and it is a very fine line and I don't envy the rules writers of GW at all regarding this. It is very difficult to balance the mechanics of all these vast unique armies without getting them in the end to look all too similar..

Regarding what you say in 40k I haven't been in the know for some years now so it may or may not be better, I have no informed opinion regarding this.. The army is not top 3 and all the stats so far are proof of that. That is a FACT that you cannot deny. Now in the future if they actually become top 3 the stats will show it and you'll be able to state your claim backed up by facts. Anything other than that is our subjective opinions and views so as I said not interested to have a debate with you. Have a nice day!

Mate the army is not overpowered. I respect your opinion on the sunmetal ability but I dissagree. If Lumineth would have to lose the rule they would need much more robust stats to make up for it or else they would be the new Sylvaneth. I've seen your posts on the generic topic on regarding Lumineth and I'm not interested in having a debate here for a topic we'll never see eye to eye.. So let's agree that we dissagree and both be happy! 🙂

Yes I hear that. Mortal wounds can bypass some abilities and that can be annoying.. but if I am to get 8 damage for example on my unit in the end I care what damage I endured and less how it was applied. But I do see your point. Regarding fly high yes it can be annoying as are all extreme movement tricks.. in general AoS in my opinion can benefit greatly from toning down th edamage units can apply and the extreme movement many armies have.. An easy fix is to make the first turn priority happen on a dice roll rather than the player who finishes deplyment getting to choose.. Just give him a +1 or to win ties and the game will be much more balanced, because every general will have to deploy without the knowledge whether he'll go first or second making for more dynamic deployments and more dynamic games without one drop predetermined plans that have a result some armies losing without getting to play..

Personally lore-wise I find the sunmetal weapon ability very fitting as a way to incorporate the precision strikes of aelven warriors. The only case where it is perhaps annoying is on the Sentinels but if we look at the damage output it is not greater than what other armies can do with their shooting options. Ultmately damage is damage so while some people may want to roll their saves if the damage at the end is the same, does it really matter?

They look awesome and their extra poses make them even better!! 🙂

Making the Wardens expensive won't solve anytning. You can't make something good my making another thing bad. Wardens are not broken,, they're fine as they are in points. Making the Bladelords 100pts won't fix their problems but will make them a less expensive choice.. Because at 300 pts for 15 Bladelords you can then compare them to 20 Wardens for 60 pts more making them a much more appealing choice than they are now.. The best solution though is giving them Sunmetal Weapons rule. Then not only they become better, but make the Lord Regent a much more viable choice and giving them something to synergize with.. I won't get my hopes high but I really hope the ability was missed from the warscroll .. 🙂

Apart from the bodyguard rule, Wardens do everything better.. heck they don't even need power of hysh to outperform the Bladelords.. and while the 4+ save against magic is neat the fact they're not good makes them one of the last choices for a target for enemy spells. And if they act as bodyguard they just receive the mortal wounds from spells that hit the mage they're guarding. I hear you about the pikes.. they are a nightmare to play with and transport and I was desperate too not to have to use them but the sad truth is Wardens are our only unit that deals consistently damage and our highest damage dealing unit at the same time.. I even tried recently Stoneguard builds, x3 Mountain builds and it is just not the same.. Even mountains are so swingy.. I played a battle vs Cities and when I came up against some Longbeards with Avelenor my enemy just rolled a couple of 4ups more and Avalenor did only 2 damage from the mortal wounds.. And for the same points again Wardens do double the damage with double the number of wounds, with 30 models for obectives vs one etc If they don't fix Bladelords and give them sunmetal weapons or at least drop them to 100 pts we are stuck with Wardens whether we like it or not..

No I didn't.. These stats are without taking into account the moonfire flask because it is a one use trick, but if we add it too then yes it gets even more offending.. 😅 EDIT: Also I would like to add that the stats of the Wardens are not against a unit that has charged them.. if we added that and the moonfire flask the damage would be approximately 30 against a 4+ unit. I just opted not to use it again because it is highly situational..

I had the same thought and did some mathhammer and the result was dissapointing.. 15 Bladelords with perfect strike score 11.48 damage on a 4+ save unit. That is 360pts 30 Wardens without power of hysh on score 17.36 damage on a 4+ save unit. 30 Wardens with power of hysh on score 24.61 damage on a 4+ save unit. Again 360pts The difference is so great it hurts my weary heart.. 😛 I mean if Wardens have power of hysh (which they should) they do double (!) the damage..

Same here... I have ordered 4 boxes of them (before I knew the rules) and for the life of me apart from having 5 to protect my izards from sniping or having 10 to teleport and sit on an obective with Loreseeker for guaranteed scoring I cannot put the in a list in good competitive concience.. Their damage is so bad compared to Wardens that is not funny at all.. They absolutely need sunmetal weapons or dropping to 100pts or else they will be collecting dust on many aelven shelves.. And what hurts me more is that they are so iconic and see them falling so hard from grace.. I mean at this point the Swordmaster warscroll from grand alliance Order is better than them which speaks volumes alone.. I think I will be forever salty about this unit.. 😅

He is not named. There are lots of them in the fluff as far as I know... A faq is needed I guess..

As I said on a previous post the mainstream choice will remain Sentinels. Just as you said the difference is not that great and the ballistas can have other uses too me thinks.. 🙂 Also If were to go for more shooting instead of a second unit of 20 sentinels, I would prefer to go for 3 ballistas for the extra utility myself!

No mate, look at the warscroll of the ballista again. On the ability warding lanterns. It says they get +1 attack if they haven't moved. The battalion just replace the same ability with the difference that if the ballista is within 3 inches on another ballista the ward save is 5+ instead of 6+..

Sorry mate but the math say otherwise.. x20 Sentinels with power do hysh do 7,13 damage on a 4+ save unit. x20 Sentinels without power of hysh do 4,75 damage on a 4+ save unit. x3 Ballistas without moving with the +1 to hit from hero do 8,33 damage on a 4+ save unit. x3 Ballistas that have moved with the +1 to hit from hero do 5,56 damage on a 4+ save unit. So all in all the ballistas do more damage. The advantage of the Sentinels lies in the no line of sight needing ability they have and the fact they can circumvent the penalties on to hit.. Also the ballistas do not need the battalion for their +1 attack ability. They have it on their warscroll. The battalion just makes the ward save 5+

I don't think the battalion is need after much thought unless you would use a Calligrave anyway on you list and want the extra artifact/commad point.. If you just use 3 of them on their own it will be just 20pts more than 20 Sentinels and you 'll get the -1 to hit ability 3 times and be able to spread them in the your deployment zone to prevent pesky teleports and deep strikes while your army goes forward to do the good work!

I also think the ballistas will get some use due to their "disrupt shot" rule, because otherwise Sentinels remain the superior choice in terms of damage. To be fair though they have the benefit that they do not need power of hysh to go of to be at their best performance, because if the sentinels fail their power of hysh their damage output becomes almost negligible..