New FAQ Discussion Thread (27.08)

[Ragest]

52 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Bro I’m with you. This it an emotional time.

The core rules say you only continue to allocate wounds to a unit once a model is slain.

Horrors warscroll says a model is removed but does not count as slain.

🤷‍♂️🙃

Just for battleshock purposes, the warscroll is pretty clear

[Chikout]

The save stacking rule has been criticized by literally 100% of the community. If ever there is a good case for comp, it is this. 

I think that in the future GW should release each faq as a week long beta. Any glaring issues like this one and the trees can be taken care of before the faq is finalized. 

[yukishiro1]

It used to be you couldn't use the book competitively until it's got a FAQ. Maybe now we need to have a rule that you can't use a book competitively until it's got a FAQ to the FAQ. 😒

Of course, that'd mean you can't play AOS3.0 at all given these problems are created by the base rules...

Edited August 28, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Ragest]

6 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

It used to be you couldn't use the book competitively until it's got a FAQ. Maybe now we need to have a rule that you can't use a book competitively until it's got a FAQ to the FAQ. 😒

Of course, that'd mean you can't play AOS3.0 at all given these problems are created by the base rules...

That’s the FAQ to the FAQ, now we need the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.

[Fyrenn]

3 hours ago, xking said:

I'm surprised they updated all these old warscrolls.  https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/u8HUNVKydnPpvowA.pdf

Nevermind, they are not intended for competitive play.

Well, to be fair the updates in monstrous arcanum legends were the best thing i've seen in months - as a BoC person, I can finally play a gigantic chaos spawn as an ally if the person I play with asks.

No one I know is going to care 😄

 

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, Ragest said:

That’s the FAQ to the FAQ, now we need the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.

What about elevensies?

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Chikout said:

The save stacking rule has been criticized by literally 100% of the community. If ever there is a good case for comp, it is this. 

I think that in the future GW should release each faq as a week long beta. Any glaring issues like this one and the trees can be taken care of before the faq is finalized. 

I think we should stop making excuses for them. We are their customers, not their friends.

Nobody is perfect and sometimes things slip through the cracks. However, after so many years of putting out erratas for things that shouldn't make it past an initial QA check, GW now appears to be incapable of releasing a product that doesn't become invalidated almost immediately.

Sometimes they even need to errata their errata, and sometimes even more than once. It's embarrassing for a company to constantly make these kinds of blunders... it gives the impression that they don't care about their own game and/or the players.

Im sure most of them are a lovely bunch of people, but they are either not giving it their best effort or their best effort isn't enough. They need to do better because they are eventually going to run out of the good will they built up over the past five years.

[Chikout]

28 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think we should stop making excuses for them. We are their customers, not their friends.

Nobody is perfect and sometimes things slip through the cracks. However, after so many years of putting out erratas for things that shouldn't make it past an initial QA check, GW now appears to be incapable of releasing a product that doesn't become invalidated almost immediately.

Sometimes they even need to errata their errata, and sometimes even more than once. It's embarrassing for a company to constantly make these kinds of blunders... it gives the impression that they don't care about their own game and/or the players.

Im sure most of them are a lovely bunch of people, but they are either not giving it their best effort or their best effort isn't enough. They need to do better because they are eventually going to run out of the good will they built up over the past five years.

I wasn't trying to defend them at all. It's clear that the process they have isn't working for whatever reason. The frustration from the community is palpable. 

I just think that gw has a community who pick up on flaws within minutes of seeing the FAQs. It's a big mistake not to leverage that. 

If they had a one week beta they could put out a faq, take feedback  before they finalise things and avoid any glaring issues in the future. 

[CeleFAZE]

6 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I wasn't trying to defend them at all. It's clear that the process they have isn't working for whatever reason. The frustration from the community is palpable. 

I just think that gw has a community who pick up on flaws within minutes of seeing the FAQs. It's a big mistake not to leverage that. 

If they had a one week beta they could put out a faq, take feedback  before they finalise things and avoid any glaring issues in the future. 

There's downsides to that too. If the players are given an illusion of agency over the process GW will generate even more ill will if they stick to their guns with an unpopular ruling. Like with Slaanesh, where they basically condescended to the players by telling us that the points are there to offset summoning, when it's clear that we're still wildly overcosted; especially in the case of slaangors, a scroll they demonstrated they could've updated in the FAQ just like they did with plague monks in the past and horrors just recently. 

[yukishiro1]

GW doesn't put much effort into attention to detail on the rule side - which is somewhat odd given they've built their empire on attention to detail on the modeling side. But it's been a consistent pattern going back decades. They pay their rules writers bottom-barrel wages (even by the standards of the industry,  when you compared to places like WOTC that are similarly successful and large), they expect them to work for the company on their own time, and they clearly don't invest in professional proofreading at all, given the remarkably embarrassing typos that often make it into print in GW books and the lack of standard language.  The rules writers seem to mostly be talented people, but they also seem like they've being systematically overworked and undercompensated, to the point where it's no great surprise that attention to detail suffers.

As long as it continues to not hurt their bottom line, I doubt there's much chance of them reevaluating things and spending more money on producing rules more carefully. What incentive do they have to change? And we know from recent revelations how dysfunctional the management is, so even if someone did want to do that, they likely wouldn't be able to get it to actually happen given all the hoops they'd need to jump through. 

All that said...they are slowly getting more responsive. The fact that they managed a same-day response to the snafu - even just a "will talk with the rules people ASAP" - is a lot better than they would have done in the past. I don't think there's much chance of them investing greater resources to avoid these embarrassing mistakes in the first place, but I do think there are some signs that they may be getting quicker about fixing them once the community points them out. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by yukishiro1

[ArcaneLore74]

Can somebody clarify for me whether the Khorne Dragon is now playable or not please. In the core rules it arbitrarily says no models more than half your list but my understanding is this isn't repeated in the GHB and the Monstrous Arcanum FAQ says these models can be played in any games of AOS...

 

[BigNStinky]

30 minutes ago, ArcaneLore74 said:

Can somebody clarify for me whether the Khorne Dragon is now playable or not please. In the core rules it arbitrarily says no models more than half your list but my understanding is this isn't repeated in the GHB and the Monstrous Arcanum FAQ says these models can be played in any games of AOS...

 

Yes I would definitely like some clarification on this

[Magnus The Blue]

17 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Why oh why is there a nerf to Archaon but not to Gotrek 😛

I actually think the change to Archeon is nothing about power level and just about the old eye rules not working with the new '6s can only trigger one effect' rule.  Since the active player chooses which ability to activate, the old eye only ever worked on your own turn (if your opponent has 6s to hit do something rules).

[Nezzhil]

1 hour ago, ArcaneLore74 said:

Can somebody clarify for me whether the Khorne Dragon is now playable or not please. In the core rules it arbitrarily says no models more than half your list but my understanding is this isn't repeated in the GHB and the Monstrous Arcanum FAQ says these models can be played in any games of AOS...

 

If you are using the Battlepack in the Core rules you can't use him.

If you are using the Thondia Battleplack you can use him.

 

It is that easy. 😅

[PrimeElectrid]

8 hours ago, Ragest said:

Just for battleshock purposes, the warscroll is pretty clear

No it isn’t. The commentary is clear, the actual rule is not.

 

This says nothing about battleshock purposes.

Edited August 28, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Starfyre]

Honestly, it's this pedantry that ruins the game. If I hadn't bothered with this forum chat, it would never have been in doubt how to play with that warscroll. 

[Battlefury]

What really surprises me is, how surprised people seem to be about the state of the rules writing.

After all these years, people are still willing to clutch for every straw, that GW gives them. Even a Sam Pearson will change nothing, if the management doesn't want to.
Just look at what they keep doing...the rules are not a main point...they are just the justification to sell you overpriced plastic models.

As a customer, some of you should really concider to get in the mindset of a customer . None of you is a friend or a petitioner of GW.

My personal conclusion is:

The rules they write are an inferior product.
The mniatures are a really good product, but the price is not justifiable.
 

As the MOD told, let GW know, what doesn't work!

[pnkdth]

47 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

The rules they write are an inferior product.
The mniatures are a really good product, but the price is not justifiable.

Who knows, perhaps this is the time when army comp and custom tournament packs become a thing again? Given the changes to the rules (them incorporating a lot of what was previously only in tournament packs) it seems this is an area GW really are paying attention to. 

[Ragest]

To be fair, faqs were really good until the Sylvaneth/dpr madness.

That's what I'm going to do in my tournaments.

1- Any ability that negates wounds with a roll is a ward.

2- Heroes that try to negate a wound by bodyguard can’t use wards if the bodyguard fails (just a clarification, some people is still confused about that)

3- Sylvaneth recovers its allegiance like the last time they had it outside wylwood's warscroll. (Wylwoods can set up everywhere on the table)

[pikachoux]

Can someone explain the new rule for the Saurus Sunblood? On Lustria-Online a person said its a huge nerf but I dont understand.

[Boar]

4 hours ago, pikachoux said:

Can someone explain the new rule for the Saurus Sunblood? On Lustria-Online a person said its a huge nerf but I dont understand.

Previously he targeted enemy unit and anyone attacking it got +1 to wound rolls. Now he can target own unit to give them +1 to wound rolls. So he could buff potentially several units if they were attacking one marked unit, and also it could stack with other CA.

[Kaleb Daark]

14 hours ago, ArcaneLore74 said:

Can somebody clarify for me whether the Khorne Dragon is now playable or not please. In the core rules it arbitrarily says no models more than half your list but my understanding is this isn't repeated in the GHB and the Monstrous Arcanum FAQ says these models can be played in any games of AOS...

 

 

14 hours ago, BigNStinky said:

Yes I would definitely like some clarification on this

Given he’s now out of production I can’t see it.

knowing them and their well documented in the posts above attention to detail, id say it slipped through the net.

much like my 400 quid which they would have had if they’d have given me a last chance to buy heads up.

not that I’m sore about it or anything!

[BigNStinky]

42 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

 

Given he’s now out of production I can’t see it.

knowing them and their well documented in the posts above attention to detail, id say it slipped through the net.

much like my 400 quid which they would have had if they’d have given me a last chance to buy heads up.

not that I’m sore about it or anything!

 Snagged one not long ago. Didn't realize he was fully out of production now.

They wasted the time updating part of his scroll though which is baffling.

Edited August 28, 2021 by BigNStinky

[Televiper11]

As a former technical writer & editor, I personally find GW’s approach to rules publication infuriating, especially considering the luxury prices we are paying for our hobby. The quality control should simply be better. Full stop. But GW aren’t going to change, they are basically telling their customers to FAQ off because they know that the majority of us won’t walk away from the hobby due to sunk costs and ubiquity. I know because I’m one of them. The whole roll-out of 3.0 has left a bad taste in my mouth. I think it was poorly done (not as poorly done as 1.0) and too soon. An every three year edition cycle is ridiculous. And then to get the Core Book and see it needs 7 pages of errata… that’s pathetically slip-shod. It’s disappointing.

I don’t know what the solution is because this is a very profitable company with a huge fanbase that doesn’t need to publish this way. They need better editing and play testing controls. Things have become more noticeably slipshod with all their games just in the past two years.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Televiper11

[Belathor]

So i figured this would be a fun time to post the “pain in the ass” olympics of the new save rules

gold medal

flamespyre and frost phoenix with their save easily being a 3+ 5+ amulet 4+ annointed 6+ luminark. also if you kill the flamespyre he comes back on a 4+ for good times

silver

terrorgheist this one is actually going to kill you while its unkillable with his 3+ save 5+ amulet 5+ unholy vitality and 6+ deathless courtier

bronze

verminlord warpseer and nagash cut the medal in half. While the verninlord is a healthy hollywood phone number with its 3 5 5 5 i think nagash getting his dumb deathless minion save after his 4+ is going to make me hand of dust. 
 

 

runner up firelsayers back to a 3+ 4+ 6+ and if you take a luminark 6+ but if anyone can get rerolling saves and all these saves they may take silver