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Magnus The Blue

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Dracothian Guard

Dracothian Guard (7/10)

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  1. I agree with almost everything you're saying. The damage/attrition stats are only part of the picture, the main point I am trying to make with that we have lost a lot, absolutely but we have also gained a lot. The Arrow boys Vs Piggies was just something I did because someone asked for it, so much difference between the two when on the tabletop that it's hard to draw any conclusions from it. I do not think we'll ever be an S Tier army (without silly points reductions) but I do think there is more than one solid B+,A- level army in the Bonesplitters. If they FAQ to allow us to ally in IronJaws/Kuelboyz, we're get another bump in power to (Sloggoth is the most obvious addition). Lack of speed is definitely a worry, but that fact we can always pop in Great Hunter and 3.0's smaller board helps a lot. I do hate that we lost Breath of Mork specifically (Kunning Beast spirits is annoying, but we have Mystic Shield). I think the main advantage of Icebone isn't actually the raw damage output, it the fact that any of our units can now do meaningful damage to even the most heavy armoured enemy, which means less reliance on Big Stabbas/Rogue Idols. Combined with less reliance on heros (mainly because they are worse), I think it means our armies will be much more horde like (although likely multiple minimum units rather than a few big blobs) swapping the board with dangerous naked Orruks. Quite different to what we are used to in from 2.0 but more like how I imagine Bonesplittas fight in the mortal realms. Worth pointing out I definitely think normal Savage Orruks are over costed, but I think it's the only one of our units that is. Will do some more points based efficiency Stats over the coming days, but for now I need to do some work
  2. Oh yeah, lots of moving parts both ways. For the Arrow boys it's pulling off curse against a juicy target (50/50 even of you are in range) without it the arrow boys are only doing about as much damage as one unit of charging Maniacs.
  3. Good idea So assuming Beast spirits and curse both happen for the old Arrow boyz. Total costs 390 + 85 = 475points In terms of piggies, lets so 3 units of 5 Maniacs: 435 points. Against 4+ saves: Arrow boys are doing 11.25 failed saves plus 15 mortals wounds: 26.25 damage total 3 units of Pigs (charging + icebone) are doing 19.875 failed saves plus 13.25 mortals: 33.125 damage total Piggies doing about 26% more damage Against no save: Arrow boys are doing 22.5 failed saves plus 15 mortals wounds: 37.5 damage total 3 units of Pigs (charging + icebone) are doing 39.75 failed saves plus 13.25 mortals: 53 damage total Piggies doing about 41% more damage. Obviously lots of dependencies on both sides and it's a bit apples Vs oranges but interesting to see the comparison between them in near ideal circumstances.
  4. Here is my first unit analysis: Big Stabbas. They lose the d6 vs monsters and run and charge, but become defensively much better (big points drop) and offensively much better (except against monsters). Again assuming 4+ save (better saves make the stats better for new icebone) Unit name Options +Buffs Cost Melee Damage Effective wounds Cost per EW Cost/Melee Defencive change Offensive change Offensive change V Monsters Big Stabbas Old 110.00 4.44 11.52 9.55 24.75 0.00% 0.00% n/a Big Stabbas Old, Vs Monsters 110.00 7.78 11.52 9.55 14.14 0.00% 42.86% 0.00% Big Stabbas New 80.00 4.44 11.52 6.94 18.00 27.27% 27.27% -27.27% Big Stabbas New, Icebone 80.00 4.67 11.52 6.94 17.14 27.27% 30.74% -21.21% The lack of run and charge will definitely be felt but they are points for point nearly 1/3rd much more survivable and doing more damage Vs non monsters.
  5. This is very true. We could get through against all but the best casters (easy to get +3 or better to cast), but all it takes is Naggash or Telcis to ruin your day.
  6. Here is a more detailed breakdown for the same situation 4+ to hit and wound: % chance Relative difference to other scenarios Hit Wound Failed save Doing damage S1 S2 S3 S4 S1: No bonus 50.00% 50.00% 50.00% 12.50% 0.00% -10.01% -25.00% -43.75% S2: Old Icebone 50.00% 50.00% 55.56% 13.89% 11.11% -0.01% -16.67% -37.50% S3: New. Not icebone 66.67% 50.00% 50.00% 16.67% 33.33% 19.99% 0.00% -25.00% S4: New icebone 66.67% 50.00% 66.67% 22.22% 77.78% 59.99% 33.33% 0.00% As you can (hopefully) see, even compared to old Icebone (which basically cost you an artifact to use), you've still got a 60% increase in damage now for the same attacks. Losing the magic feels like much less of a blow now I've look at this. Sure stacking buffs is hard for us now, but we don't really need them (offensively). This makes use less dependant on heros and removes one of our major weakspots (hero sniping). Seems like a fundamental shift in the way the army plays from being high defence (through tonnes of wounds and save stacking) we've gone to much more damage but worse defence (more expensive wounds and harder to save stack with nerfed Wardoks). I'm going to add analysis of specific units to this thread over time. Feel free to request any specific stuff you want me to explore.
  7. Interesting but far from mind blowing. Surprised they didn't use the opportunity for fix Mark of Tzeentch, such a negative play experience on any 3+ save unit (when combined with save stacking). Any new Core Battalions?
  8. Not sure why no-one is talking about this. It may be hard to cast (7) but feels to me like a big deal. Such a powerful debuff (-1 attacks and no running) with good range (18" + 6") and big areas of effect (12" diameter circle and everything touched in effected). So crippling a large chunk of the enemy armour from across the board. What's not to love?
  9. Ok, So I think it's fair to say that the reception has been mixed at best for the new Bonesplitters. As a long terms Bonesplitters player I get the negativity, we've lots a lot of our cool rules and our magic game in particular has really suffered but we have some new cool rules (love the Waggok stare and the Waaagh is great) but also I think we're actually more competitive. Mainly because our damage output has skyrocketed. Spirit of Gorkamoka + Icebone represents a MASSIVE damage increase for almost all our units (when over 5 models). Here are some numbers: Lets assume we're going Icebone and fighting against 4+ Saves. Old style 4+/4+ attack would have 1/8 or 12.5% chance of doing an unsaved wounding hit. Add in Spirits and this goes up to 1/6 or 16.666% Icebone on top makes it 2/9 or 22.2% So without buffs or units specific charge bonuses chance of damage has gone from 12.5% to 22.2%, that's a HUGE 77.777% relative increase in damage and almost army wide. I don't think any army has ever has such a crazy increase in damage output. I'll put all the workings and some more detailed analysis up later: obviously points have gone up and attacks down for some units, but it's generally a net gain across the board with some outstanding winners.
  10. The +5 relies on a warchanter and Wardok, plus 2 from the heroic action (your turn plus theirs).
  11. Round 2 seems very doable. You can get d6 +5 before combat and +3 per unit in combat (1 for charge 1 for being in combat each turn).
  12. Been having some fun with maths and on my are Maniac Boarboys the big winners. In icebone and unit of just 5 charging will do, on average over 11 wounds against 4+ armour saves. About 50% of the wounds are from mortals so they scale really well against both better and worse saves. Without charging they still crack out just under 8 damage, which still hurts. Morboyz are similarly killy in the unlikely situation where you can get all of them into combat, are slower but also harder to kill. Regular Boarboys are obviously also good, since they are battleline and a bit more hardy, still spit out 9 wounds on the charge and nearly six without it. Both get a 25% less killy when they lose one model but are hardly neutered. With Tireless trackers they are all moving 20" first turn before charging, so an Alpha strike to be scared of!
  13. Please, once your in combat it's 500 dice a turn 😆. The idea would be to use the million arrows to take out all the support units early to minimise save stacking. Also with so many bodies you should be winning the objective game against most armies.
  14. Anyone else thinking of the prospect of 10*10 Bonegrin Arrowboys. They feel like a good self sufficient MSU unit now. Add a Sloggoth, 6-8 Big Stabbas and some support characters and you've got tonnes of bodies, lots of arrows and a solid close combat army to boot. Might actually be better as Big Waaagh but hard to turn down 100 extra shots a turn.
  15. I actually think Big Waaagh is the way to go for any Kruelboys army that isn't going for big yellas. You lose the meh Waaagh, the ok Dirty Tricks and the (other than big yellas) situational and not great sub-factions. In return you get universal +1to hit, wound, charge, cast and dispell once you hit mid game. Seems like a bargain.
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