AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

[Drazhoath]

1 minute ago, Howdyhedberg said:

So... Whats the point of the core book vs just getting generals handbook?

Maybe you have all the Alliance Abilities for the Grand Alliances. I love the Lore and Artwork though.

[GutrotSpume]

1 minute ago, Howdyhedberg said:

So... Whats the point of the core book vs just getting generals handbook?

Fluff and pretty pictures? Never liked Stormcast and not super keen on the kruleboyz so happy I only need to buy the GHB 

[Paul Buckler]

Path to glory, open play rules, excellent artwork and background to the mortal realms.

 

[Howdyhedberg]

So the core book is better suited for us casuals? While ghb contains the core rules and everything for a more challenging game?

 

In aos2 in only bought the game book and ghb 2020

[Ghoooouls]

10 minutes ago, Howdyhedberg said:

So... Whats the point of the core book vs just getting generals handbook?

All the lore etc. In previous editions I think there were some battleplans, path to glory and other bits. Plus all the core rules (but you can download them for free).

So you can quite easily just get the generals handbook and download the core book rules.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Ghoooouls

[Howdyhedberg]

Just now, Ghoooouls said:

All the lore etc. In previous editions I think there were some battleplans and other bits. Plus all the core rules (but you can download them for free).

So you can quite easily just get the generals handbook and download the core book rules.

Looks like the new ghb contains the rules too according to Warhammer community :)!

 

I would like the fancy limited core book, but if I can't get it, I might probably just get ghb2021

[Chikout]

The core book has more than 200 pages of lore and a bunch of path to glory stuff. If you don't care about either of those, just buy the ghb. 

[Doko]

For people that only play matched play i dont see any reason to get the big book when gh have the rules and moreover have all the battleplans.

[CaptainSoup]

So we got some interesting bits of information from todays official GW Warhammer Community articles. 

Firstly the Disciples of Tzeentch preview confirms that Warscroll Battalions cannot be taken in Matched Play games.

Quote

Mike: Competitive play in the new edition will be shaken up by the new core battalions that any army can use. The fact that warscroll battalions can’t be taken in the matched play battle packs in the Core Book and General’s Handbook will affect Disciples of Tzeentch, as they lose one of the most ubiquitous parts of their tournament armies – the infamous Changehost. This is great news, as it will encourage many more varied lists to be taken.

The other article talks about the upcoming GHB release that will come along side the Core Rulebook release. 

Firstly it mentions the name of the Matched Play Battlepack we've been talking about, Battlepack: Pitched Profiles 2021.

It also mentions the return of Realm Rules, which was noticeably absent during the CRB reviews this past weekend. The article previews what you can get when we play in the realm of Ghur, including more core battalions for matched play that are outside the CRB, new abilities to use if you go second, and a new spell that lets your hero have the monster keyword for a turn (though again, only if your game is in the realm of Ghur).

Overall some interesting tidbits of information. I for one like the fact they regulated the realm rules for matched play, as it means its one less thing to worry about when playing more casual game settings.

[Acrozatarim]

Aaaand there it is, the 'second player removes an objective on turn 3' rule that the AoS List Lab chap mentioned in his earlier videos. So I guess he must have gotten access to a leak of the GHB as well as the core (or maybe he just saw the GHB as it apparently now has the core rules in there?).

[Ganigumo]

New article is up with some of the GHB stuff, the two new battalions aren't that great.

Alpha-beast pack is a step in the right direction for sure, as its got a somewhat unique effect, and these both actually have narrative, but they're still a significant step below battle regiment or an enhancement in terms of power.

[KrispyXIV]

2 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

New article is up with some of the GHB stuff, the two new battalions aren't that great.

Alpha-beast pack is a step in the right direction for sure, as its got a somewhat unique effect, and these both actually have narrative, but they're still a significant step below battle regiment or an enhancement in terms of power.

Both of these new battalions also critically don't require any Leader choices, which was a HUGE hurdle when I was theory crafting lists with the main Core Battalions.  These allow for fitting a third battalion into a list pretty easily, even if the benefits aren't huge.  

Though based on the trial game I watched last night, a battalion that grants immunity to Roar is pretty huge.  

[Marcvs]

23 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

The article previews what you can get when we play in the realm of Ghur, including more core battalions for matched play that are outside the CRB

From the presence of the additional core battalions I would say that either:

a) you get access to those if your army is from Ghur (not if you play in that realm)

or (what I think)

b) all the battles of this "season" will be in Ghur

[Fred1245]

25 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

So we got some interesting bits of information from todays official GW Warhammer Community articles. 

Firstly the Disciples of Tzeentch preview confirms that Warscroll Battalions cannot be taken in Matched Play games.

The other article talks about the upcoming GHB release that will come along side the Core Rulebook release. 

Firstly it mentions the name of the Matched Play Battlepack we've been talking about, Battlepack: Pitched Profiles 2021.

It also mentions the return of Realm Rules, which was noticeably absent during the CRB reviews this past weekend. The article previews what you can get when we play in the realm of Ghur, including more core battalions for matched play that are outside the CRB, new abilities to use if you go second, and a new spell that lets your hero have the monster keyword for a turn (though again, only if your game is in the realm of Ghur).

Overall some interesting tidbits of information. I for one like the fact they regulated the realm rules for matched play, as it means its one less thing to worry about when playing more casual game settings.

Realm rules again? God I hate those. 'Roll a dice, on a 6 you lose! Can't you feel how NARRATIVE it is!'

[CaptainSoup]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

From the presence of the additional core battalions I would say that either:

a) you get access to those if your army is from Ghur (not if you play in that realm)

or (what I think)

b) all the battles of this "season" will be in Ghur

It would be whatever the Realm Rules are. It could mean one or the other or both.

As for "seasons," I don't recall AoS doing anything like that or that being mentioned anywhere so far. The "storyline" for this edition has its focus on Ghur, which was probably why they previewed it in the article. 

[Ganigumo]

2 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Both of these new battalions also critically don't require any Leader choices, which was a HUGE hurdle when I was theory crafting lists with the main Core Battalions.  These allow for fitting a third battalion into a list pretty easily, even if the benefits aren't huge.  

Though based on the trial game I watched last night, a battalion that grants immunity to Roar is pretty huge.  

It depends on the army a bit, but enhancements have a HUGE hero tax. these are useful if you need a second enhancement or just don't care about minimizing drops for some reason. The most common numbers of drops will be 2 and 4, so I guess if you want a second enhancement, or can't fit into battle regiment after getting one these come into play
 

[EnumaEilish]

1 hour ago, Howdyhedberg said:

So... Whats the point of the core book vs just getting generals handbook?

Core book has its own Matched Play battlepack, plus the new narrative play rules.

[Xs_0013]

Hey gang! I don't know if this has been asked, but regarding the new rules specifically 'all out defense'.
Models equipped with shields generally get +1 to saves. So they cannot benefit from the new command ability with saves being capped at +1. 
To me this just feels bad
How likely is an errata? Eg models equipped with a shield have a sv value of X instead of y. There is precident for this to be the new format, see: killaboss warscroll

 

 

[CaptainSoup]

2 minutes ago, Xs_0013 said:

Hey gang! I don't know if this has been asked, but regarding the new rules specifically 'all out defense'.
Models equipped with shields generally get +1 to saves. So they cannot benefit from the new command ability with saves being capped at +1. 
To me this just feels bad
How likely is an errata? Eg models equipped with a shield have a sv value of X instead of y. There is precident for this to be the new format, see: killaboss warscroll

 

 

This was probably intentional. They probably don't want people stacking buffs like that anymore as it can lead to some weird shenanigans. They've done the same to hit and wound rolls in 40k. 

[SpiritofHokuto]

Something to note is that Balewind Vortex isn't on the list of Endless spell updates. Not surprising seeing as it's been OOP for a while now. 

[KrispyXIV]

5 minutes ago, Xs_0013 said:

Hey gang! I don't know if this has been asked, but regarding the new rules specifically 'all out defense'.
Models equipped with shields generally get +1 to saves. So they cannot benefit from the new command ability with saves being capped at +1. 
To me this just feels bad
How likely is an errata? Eg models equipped with a shield have a sv value of X instead of y. There is precident for this to be the new format, see: killaboss warscroll

 

 

Many models with Shields actually get a whole different Save Stat, in fact.  Ie, they say "Your Save stat becomes a 5+" instead of the normal 6+.

These should stack perfectly well with All Out Defense.  

[frostyeel]

I reached an interpretation of the Unique unit / spell lore enhancement confusion that I'm happy with. 27.3.1 says "Enhancement's cannot be given to unique units", and the rules for command traits and artifacts both use the word "give" in phrasing that is very similar to the restriction. The spell lore enhancement (27.3.4) does not use the word "give". It is phrased roughly, for each wizard pick a spell, that wizard knows that spell. So unlike command traits and artefacts of power, the spell lore enhancement is not a thing that is given to a unit, it's just an enhancement that allows you to pick a spell for each wizard. Thus no conflict with 27.3.1, and the sidenote that says "every Wizard" doesn't necessarily need to be acting as an exception to 27.3.1, but is just a reminder that the spell lore enhancement affects all eligible units, unlike command traits and artefacts that affect a single eligible unit.

[Mcthew]

1 hour ago, CaptainSoup said:

So we got some interesting bits of information from todays official GW Warhammer Community articles. 

Firstly the Disciples of Tzeentch preview confirms that Warscroll Battalions cannot be taken in Matched Play games.

The other article talks about the upcoming GHB release that will come along side the Core Rulebook release. 

Firstly it mentions the name of the Matched Play Battlepack we've been talking about, Battlepack: Pitched Profiles 2021.

It also mentions the return of Realm Rules, which was noticeably absent during the CRB reviews this past weekend. The article previews what you can get when we play in the realm of Ghur, including more core battalions for matched play that are outside the CRB, new abilities to use if you go second, and a new spell that lets your hero have the monster keyword for a turn (though again, only if your game is in the realm of Ghur).

Overall some interesting tidbits of information. I for one like the fact they regulated the realm rules for matched play, as it means its one less thing to worry about when playing more casual game settings.

Mixed feelings about the GHB:

The good, first:

- I like that it's ring bound as the GHBs have been a pain in the behindus to keep open and use in games. 

- I like that there's proper realm rules.

 

The Bad second:

- Ring bound feels a little cheap though. Harks back to the old days of WFB, of pamphlets etc. Doesn't speak 'high-quality' really, despite being more practical. It will fall apart quicker, methinks.

- I feel cheated by only having one realm to play in that's AoS 3.0 compliant. Are we expecting the future GHBs to concentrate on the other realms? Is this going to be piecemeal (and my beloved Chamon only gets a look-in in four years time?). It's an odd focus for the book, unless it is just a taster for publications to come. Still, it's not a great way to present the GHB because....

- It feels a bit 'lite' compared to the other GHBs. Most of the book is taken up by the Core Rules which you either have now or will have in the Core Book; and the new endless spell war scrolls which everyone can get via the website or the app. So that leaves about 46 pages and pitched profiles which again you can get via the war scroll builder.

 

Overall thoughts/hopes is that this new approach means more frequent GHBs to cover other realms, cheaper GHBs because they can be printed and ring-bound here rather in China (if that's the strategy).

Although I doubt any of this will happen. £25 for a pamphlet doesn't float my boat, really.

[Dankboss]

1 minute ago, frostyeel said:

I reached an interpretation of the Unique unit / spell lore enhancement confusion that I'm happy with. 27.3.1 says "Enhancement's cannot be given to unique units", and the rules for command traits and artifacts both use the word "give" in phrasing that is very similar to the restriction. The spell lore enhancement (27.3.4) does not use the word "give". It is phrased roughly, for each wizard pick a spell, that wizard knows that spell. So unlike command traits and artefacts of power, the spell lore enhancement is not a thing that is given to a unit, it's just an enhancement that allows you to pick a spell for each wizard. Thus no conflict with 27.3.1, and the sidenote that says "every Wizard" doesn't necessarily need to be acting as an exception to 27.3.1, but is just a reminder that the spell lore enhancement affects all eligible units, unlike command traits and artefacts that affect a single eligible unit.

This is how I read it. You the player pick the Enhancement, which then allows access to spells. Otherwise, Unique wizards get locked out of their own spell lore, as that too is an Enhancement.

[PJetski]

Did they remove the option to play a Grand Alliance army formed around ORDER, CHAOS, DESTRUCTION, or DEATH keywords?