AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

I know what you are thinking: We already have two rules threads active right now, do we really need a third?

Yes! 😎

At least we should have a thread with all rules changes in one spot, focussed on discussing what these rules actually do instead of what we want them to do/if they are well designed.

Rules changes so far:

Shooting Phase

Mostly the same, but who qualifies for Look Out, Sir! has changed slightly.

Hero Phase

 

Heroes now get heroic actions, which don't cost command points. You just get to do them.

One hero get one heroic action per player per hero phase. So one in yours and one in your opponent's.

Heroic actions are at the start of the hero phase.

New generic command abilities:

Apparently, command abilities are limited to one use per ability per phase:

Quote

On the flip side, you really need to think about Battleshock now, as only one unit can benefit from the Inspiring Presence command ability. Fortunately, the new Killaboss with Stab-grot has an ability that will help with this – All Part of Da Plan.

Charge Phase

Monsters get to perform monstrous rampages now. They work similarly to heroic actions in that they don't cost command points.

One action per monster, for both players, in both charge phases. No repeats, so up to 4 rampages per player.

Rampages happen at the end of the charge phase, unlike heroic actions which happen at the start of the hero phase. So after all charges have been made.

Command Points and Abilities

Quote

You’ll still earn another point if your general is on the battlefield, bringing your total to either two or three points for most of the battle, before taking any other abilities into account. Those crucial command abilities are also more versatile. 

 

Command points will become a lot more common in AoS 3: 1 by default, 1 from having a general on the battlefield, potentially 1 from heroic actions and 1 from going second: Getting 4 points in one turn even without a battalion will not be a rare occurance.

Units can now issue commands to themselves if they have a champion. We will likely see restrictions in who can issue what commands, since otherwise that command range increase for generals and totems would be kinda useless.

Magic Phase

Endless spells now move every hero phase, instead of every turn like before.

The mechanics around predatory endless spells have been reworked:

Invocations ("endless prayers") have also received a rework:

Apparently, priests can dispel both endless spells and invocations.

Additionally, priests get access to generic prayers now:

Coherency

Scoring

Secondary objectives exist, now named Grand Strategies:

Battalions

Current battalions will no longer be matched-play legal in AoS 3. Instead, there will be generic battalions available to all armies. The specifics are unknown so far.

Table Size

The minimum size of an AoS table will go down to 60" x 44" from 72" x 48".

A dedicated thread can be found here, but feel free to post about the change in this thread as well.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Some observations:

Since rampages happen after charges and in both your and your opponent's charge phase, it will become more dangerous to charge monsters. You are always in danger of getting stomped on or roared at (preventing Inspiring Presence) when you charge a monster.

EDIT: Roar only works in the following combat phase, so no turning of battleshock immunity, for now.

It's not completely clear how multiple generals interact with the new rules. I would guess that you get that extra command point as long as any of your generals are on the field, not one extra per general. However, you should get that bonus to the Heroic Inspiration roll as long as any of your generals has died, even if you still have additional ones on the field.

Proof that Gravelords was written with AoS 3 in mind, all the way back during the days of AoS 1: Gravesites are not terrain, so they can't be smashed by rampaging monsters 😎

Edited June 4, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Ragest]

Is going to be insteresting to see if CAs from subfactions get updated to this system or not

[mojojojo101]

I think allowing unit leaders to use command abilities is low key most impqctful change we have seen so far, even moreso if we don't see a significant changes to Inspiring Presence and/or BS immunity as a whole.

Not having to have small heroes to babysit your big chaff units and potentially not needing to keep screens wholly within 12" of that hero could change the game significantly.

 

Core battalions I remain entirely unconvinced by

[Enoby]

17 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

I think allowing unit leaders to use command abilities is low key most impqctful change we have seen so far, even moreso if we don't see a significant changes to Inspiring Presence and/or BS immunity as a whole.

Not having to have small heroes to babysit your big chaff units and potentially not needing to keep screens wholly within 12" of that hero could change the game significantly.

 

Core battalions I remain entirely unconvinced by

If unit leaders can use all of the core commands, I'm not sure this will be a change for the better. Or at least it makes no sense that generals and totems get the bonus of a larger command range if units can just command themselves anyway. I guess in the very niche case where there is no leader, but that is a tiny number of units.

Preferably we would have charge reactions on unit leaders, and more impactful things from heroes. 

[Ointagru]

2 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

It's not completely clear how multiple generals interact with the new rules. I would guess that you get that extra command point as long as any of your generals are on the field, not one extra per general. However, you should get that bonus to the Heroic Inspiration roll as long as any of your generals has died, even if you still have additional ones on the field.

Proof that Gravelords was written with AoS 3 in mind, all the way back during the days of AoS 1: Gravesites are not terrain, so they can't be smashed by rampaging monsters 😎

You can't have multiple generals. 

[Frowny]

Yeah. I kinda dislike  the unit leaders giving commands as a possible change, unless it is only certain commands- It removes a whole layer of positioning for heroes and units and might further serve to make small combat heroes weaker, as they are already not that useful but reasonably want to be both near the front lines and are cheap enough to spread around a bit. 

[Magnus The Blue]

6 minutes ago, Ointagru said:

You can't have multiple generals. 

Some armies can, such as any destruction army with Kragnos (he gets to be a general in addition to your regular one) or Invaders Host Slannesh (they get upto 3 generals).

[PrimeElectrid]

4 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Some armies can, such as any destruction army with Kragnos (he gets to be a general in addition to your regular one) or Invaders Host Slannesh (they get upto 3 generals).

Soulblight too

[PainfullyMediocre]

19 minutes ago, Frowny said:

Yeah. I kinda dislike  the unit leaders giving commands as a possible change, unless it is only certain commands- It removes a whole layer of positioning for heroes and units and might further serve to make small combat heroes weaker, as they are already not that useful but reasonably want to be both near the front lines and are cheap enough to spread around a bit. 

It means armies like Gitz aren't tied to heroes or the Loonshrine. Its nice having a unit leader be more than +1 attack to a melee profile.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

35 minutes ago, Ointagru said:

You can't have multiple generals. 

You can in Soulblight, Nighthaunt, DoK, Slaanesh and Destruction. Maybe some other armies, and quite likely more in the future, as this seems to be a general design trend to encourage people to take named characters.

[Magnus The Blue]

3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

At least we should have a thread with all rules changes in one spot, focussed on discussing what these rules actually do instead of what we want them to do/if they are well designed.

 

Other changes that have been announced and need adding to the original post:

No battletomb battalions in match play, but there will be generic ones.

Charge reactions (Flee, Hold ground, stand and shoot)

Change table size to (minimum?) 44*60"

[mojojojo101]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

If unit leaders can use all of the core commands, I'm not sure this will be a change for the better. Or at least it makes no sense that generals and totems get the bonus of a larger command range if units can just command themselves anyway. I guess in the very niche case where there is no leader, but that is a tiny number of units.

Preferably we would have charge reactions on unit leaders, and more impactful things from heroes. 

The other contributing factor here might to do with any coherency changes.

If coherency doesn't change then I think big long screens of chaff, right across the length of the board, that you can't force to take BS tests unless you can specifically target their leader.

Not sure that's a change anyone wants to see.

Edited June 4, 2021 by mojojojo101

[Greybeard86]

Stupid question incoming. Can you farm command points with multiple heroes and heroic actions? Or is it 1 per turn?

More generally, can you perform multiple heroic actions per turn (1 per hero)? It says so explicitly for monsters, but I found the heroes wording a tad more ambiguous.

[Greybeard86]

2 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

No battletomb battalions in match play, but there will be generic ones.

Finally!! Anything a tad more specific? Will it be like 40k detachments, in terms of flexibility in building? Also, what happens to the battline tag?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Stupid question incoming. Can you farm command points with multiple heroes and heroic actions? Or is it 1 per turn?

More generally, can you perform multiple heroic actions per turn (1 per hero)? It says so explicitly for monsters, but I found the heroes wording a tad more ambiguous.

Looks like one per hero phase, per player. So you don't get multiple heroic actions for bringing multiple heroes.

3 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

Finally!! Anything a tad more specific? Will it be like 40k detachments, in terms of flexibility in building? Also, what happens to the battline tag?

There are going to be generic battalions. For example, "three battleline and a hero" according to one rumour/leak. We don't know any specifics, though, like what benefits these battalions will provide, whether they will cost points, whether they still reduce drops...

[Enoby]

I wonder if these new battalions will cost...

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Other changes that have been announced and need adding to the original post:

No battletomb battalions in match play, but there will be generic ones.

Charge reactions (Flee, Hold ground, stand and shoot)

Change table size to (minimum?) 44*60"

I updated the post. Will add charge reactions and other changes when they become official.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I wonder if these new battalions will cost...

I'd assume so if their benefits are similar to the current battalions. My guess would be that they are mostly the same mechanically, but give an extra command point per turn instead of at the start of the battle due to how command points work now (you have more of them and they supposedly disappear at the end of the turn). Maybe they lose their added abilities and just keep the command point, artefact and drop reduction. I suspect they will stay optional, too, not a required force organization tool. This is not based on any evidence, though.

[Magnus The Blue]

13 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I updated the post. Will add charge reactions and other changes when they become official.

Oh, also predatory endless spells move in every hero phase.

[Banshee1978]

If they add another layer of rules (unit, subfaction,faction,spells,items,terrain already do exist) it will get more complicated and you need to memorise even more possible modifiers and actions. 
but I assume they just couldnt rewrite 1000 warscroll cards or 30 battletomes to reduce that complexity. Easier to just add another generic layer on top:/

Edited June 4, 2021 by Banshee1978

[SpiritofHokuto]

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

No battletomb battalions in match play, but there will be generic ones.

Has this actually been officially confirmed anywhere? Or are we still at the "Dude, trust me" stage? I know about the Core book battalions that are coming and for them to be bridging the gap between the "have and have nots". But if this does mean that all Battletome battalions are being nixed from Matched play, it's going to be a big blow for certain armies like Jawz of Mork that pretty much rely on their battalions to make their army work properly. But then again maybe the Core book battalions will be so generally powerful and useful that supplanting the Battletome battalions will be relatively painless? 

[lare2]

Nice one - thanks for setting this thread up. 

[Magnus The Blue]

38 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

Has this actually been officially confirmed anywhere? Or are we still at the "Dude, trust me" stage? I know about the Core book battalions that are coming and for them to be bridging the gap between the "have and have nots". But if this does mean that all Battletome battalions are being nixed from Matched play, it's going to be a big blow for certain armies like Jawz of Mork that pretty much rely on their battalions to make their army work properly. But then again maybe the Core book battalions will be so generally powerful and useful that supplanting the Battletome battalions will be relatively painless? 

Announced in one of the GW community videos, so as official as anything else.

[Kaleb Daark]

49 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

Has this actually been officially confirmed anywhere? Or are we still at the "Dude, trust me" stage? I know about the Core book battalions that are coming and for them to be bridging the gap between the "have and have nots". But if this does mean that all Battletome battalions are being nixed from Matched play, it's going to be a big blow for certain armies like Jawz of Mork that pretty much rely on their battalions to make their army work properly. But then again maybe the Core book battalions will be so generally powerful and useful that supplanting the Battletome battalions will be relatively painless? 

It'll certainly be interesting for the thematic batallions like the Khorne one that allows you to take nothing but juggernauts.

I'll look forward to this particular rule unveiling, as they very much separated AoS from you WILL take this much of this and this much of that like we had in fantasy.

It's the weapon I always use to the 8th ed fantasy die hards - "Tell me one good thing why AoS is better than fantasy?" ; me, "Sure... I can take a whole army of juggernauts led by a lord on juggernaut. - can't do that in fantasy".