AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

[yukishiro1]

Garrison rules have always been kinda funky and problematic in AOS. They can lead to all sorts of really weird results, but usually are irrelevant because it's so rare anyone actually uses them. 

[Zeblasky]

4 hours ago, Christopher Rowe said:

There are no rules for any other Realm in either the Core Rules or in the General's Handbook 2021. So I'd say no. Which breaks my heart because that Battlemage Ghur would be an ally on every one of my lists.

Wait, but you still get that +1 bonus to cast, because of wascroll rule, are you not? The rule was not removed, and battle is happening in Ghur, so...

[Zappgrot]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:57 PM, CaptainSoup said:

As a Nighthaunt player I completely forgot about Priests and our lack there of. I was hoping they would give at least one of our characters in the FAQ the keyword but alas. I truly don't understand why GW went and added all these features into the game when entire factions don't have access to them and the ones that do most likely didn't need them to begin with. I know GW is better than this, it shows in the way they support 40k, it just baffles me with some of the decisions they made in regards to some factions. It's almost as if they didn't care about some of the factions. 

Then there was the WarCom article yesterday talking about how to hunt monsters, all of which my army can't achieve like shooting them or using faction terrain as "bait." Thanks for the tips, GW...

My FLGS wants to try and kick off AoS and get people to participate to grow the community which is great and I will support them, but me and my army will be the proverbial beat stick faction that will get smashed by others except on the extremely rare occasions when the dice favor me, and anyone who has played these games long enough knows that is no way to strategize. Part of me is not looking forward to it. 

What nonsense.  There have always been and always will be factions that do not have acces to everything in the game.   Hell in 40K there is a whole faction whit no Psychers and no melee troops.  

[zilberfrid]

34 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

What nonsense.  There have always been and always will be factions that do not have acces to everything in the game.   Hell in 40K there is a whole faction whit no Psychers and no melee troops.  

Yes, and if your army doesn't have any of the toys the new edition revolves around (as well as prolification of your hard counter), it's a good reason to feel bad about it.

[The World Tree]

For all the talk of them, priests are pretty naff. 

[Christopher Rowe]

13 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

Wait, but you still get that +1 bonus to cast, because of wascroll rule, are you not? The rule was not removed, and battle is happening in Ghur, so...

But the rule was removed. The only Realms rule in either the Core Rules or the General's Handbook 2021 is the note in GHB that the Realm rules for Ghur must be used. And those rules don't say anything about other Realms. My take is that unless a rule specifically carried over from 2.0 to 3.0, then it's not in the new edition.

[zilberfrid]

15 minutes ago, Christopher Rowe said:

But the rule was removed. The only Realms rule in either the Core Rules or the General's Handbook 2021 is the note in GHB that the Realm rules for Ghur must be used. And those rules don't say anything about other Realms. My take is that unless a rule specifically carried over from 2.0 to 3.0, then it's not in the new edition.

The +1 is on the warscroll: 

Quote

You can choose from the following realms: Aqshy, Azyr, Chamon, Ghur, Ghyran, Hysh, Shyish or Ulgu. Add 1 to casting rolls for this model if the battle is taking place in the realm it comes from.

So Ghur battlemages should have +1 in all games with the Ghur realm rules.

[Beliman]

Your battlemage (or your army not anymore, you can't chose and it has no rules) doesn't need to come from Ghur

You are still  going to play in Ghur, but that's a totally diferent thing.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Beliman
Edit post-FAQs

[Christopher Rowe]

21 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

The +1 is on the warscroll: 

So Ghur battlemages should have +1 in all games with the Ghur realm rules.

That's great! Thanks!

[Zeblasky]

Yea, in Settler's gain with a Battlemage with an artifact you can stack 2 casts with +3 for spells and +4 for Endless spells. So we've started discussing Battlemage on a Griffon meta now x)

Edited July 8, 2021 by Zeblasky

[tato492]

Hello everyone, I have a question. 
Can I include in a disciples of tzeentch army a unit of tzaangors enlightened  
as a coalition unit?

Thank you very much to all.

Edited July 14, 2021 by tato492

[novakai]

9 minutes ago, tato492 said:

Hello everyone, I have a question. 
Can I include in a disciples of tzeentch army a unit of tzaangors enlightened  
as a coalition unit?

Thank you very much to all.

is there a reason you want them as a coalition unit? because all the Tzaangors are part of the Disciple of Tzeentch army and are count as regular units with no restriction when playing Tzeentch. 

[tato492]

29 minutes ago, novakai said:

is there a reason you want them as a coalition unit? because all the Tzaangors are part of the Disciple of Tzeentch army and are count as regular units with no restriction when playing Tzeentch. 

Tzaangors, tzaangors enlightened, skyfires are cheaper in beast of chaos battletome than tzeentch battletome.  That´s why i have that question.

Edited July 14, 2021 by tato492

[Beliman]

@tato492

I don't think there is any reason to take Disciples of Tzeentch Beastmen over the Beasts of Chaos ones appart from "1 in every 4" and not allowed to be Battleline (in matched play)

I thought that the new FAQ that changed "Tzeentch army" to "Disciples of Tzeentch" was just made to stop that (and lose Allegiance Abilities in the process), but I've asked the question with Archaon in mind and it seems that nothing has changed and you can still use all Allegiance Abilities:

Imho, if you don't have any problems with "1 in every 4" or battleline, just take the Beasts of Chaos Tzeentch units.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Beliman

[Liquidsteel]

Not being Battleline has the advantage of not being targets for your opponent to score the respective Battle Tactic.

[RuneBrush]

10 hours ago, tato492 said:

Tzaangors, tzaangors enlightened, skyfires are cheaper in beast of chaos battletome than tzeentch battletome.  That´s why i have that question.

Strictly speaking, I don't believe there's anything preventing you doing this providing you abide by the 1 in 4 limit.  However, I'd not bank on this staying as valid because it's basically a cheeky way of paying less points for units and many opponents will think you're taking the micky.

[tato492]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Strictly speaking, I don't believe there's anything preventing you doing this providing you abide by the 1 in 4 limit.  However, I'd not bank on this staying as valid because it's basically a cheeky way of paying less points for units and many opponents will think you're taking the micky.

Many Thanks to all.  I was looking for some restriction that does not allow it to be done. 

[tato492]

6 hours ago, Beliman said:

@tato492

I don't think there is any reason to take Disciples of Tzeentch Beastmen over the Beasts of Chaos ones appart from "1 in every 4" and not allowed to be Battleline (in matched play)

I thought that the new FAQ that changed "Tzeentch army" to "Disciples of Tzeentch" was just made to stop that (and lose Allegiance Abilities in the process), but I've asked the question with Archaon in mind and it seems that nothing has changed and you can still use all Allegiance Abilities:

Imho, if you don't have any problems with "1 in every 4" or battleline, just take the Beasts of Chaos Tzeentch units.

 

Many Thanks.

[Dejnar]

On 7/8/2021 at 6:22 PM, Zeblasky said:

Yea, in Settler's gain with a Battlemage with an artifact you can stack 2 casts with +3 for spells and +4 for Endless spells. So we've started discussing Battlemage on a Griffon meta now x)

Well that is exciting. 

Can you elaborate how? 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 minutes ago, Dejnar said:

Well that is exciting. 

Can you elaborate how? 

It's more of a joke build, but here's how it breaks down.

Battlemage on Griffon

+1 to cast from his warscroll when the battle takes place in Ghur (which currently all battles do)

+1 to cast from Settler's Gain allegiance

+1 to cast for Endless Spells from Cities of Sigmar allegiance (post FAQ)

+1 cast from the Silver-Plated Wand artefact (or Arcane Tome I guess)

Not 100% where the last +1 is coming from, but you can get it from taking a Hurricanum.

[Zeblasky]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

It's more of a joke build, but here's how it breaks down.

Battlemage on Griffon

+1 to cast from his warscroll when the battle takes place in Ghur (which currently all battles do)

+1 to cast from Settler's Gain allegiance

+1 to cast for Endless Spells from Cities of Sigmar allegiance (post FAQ)

+1 cast from the Silver-Plated Wand artefact (or Arcane Tome I guess)

Not 100% where the last +1 is coming from, but you can get it from taking a Hurricanum.

Yep, from hurricanum with mage. Even taking luminark for +1 unbind buff and +1 ward aura could be worth it when you take 2 griffons, hehe. Because you have 2 artefacts for +1, you can equp 2 Griffons like this for ultimate meme. Too bad the only source of healing for you is Emerald Lifeswarm, but having at least 2 endless spells here is a must. Only Nagash, Teclis or other autounbinds can try to stop you.

[Sleboda]

We had an interesting rules debate last night, so I thought I'd put it up for discussion here.

I was playing against @TwiceIfILikeIt, and using her step-by-step process list to go over each moment of each phase of each turn of each game in a deliberate effort to nail down our understanding of the rules.

It was my turn and I had no Command Points (CP) left. I had a unit of Brutes that had lost some models, so I was thinking about using Rally. She pointed out that 1.6.1 says "Abilities that are used at the start of a phase are used before anything else happens in that phase..."

Since Rally is a Command Ability, it needs a CP to work. I had no CPs at that point (the start of the hero phase) and could not gain the start of hero phase CP until after start of phase abilities were used, there was no way to Rally.

It feels like I should have been able to claim "simultaneous effects" ( 1.6.2) to choose the order in which to work things out, but as she pointed out, that simultaneous thing applies to abilities, not just things in general. Besides, there was that bolded bit (emphasis mine, BTW), so there was guidance making it not actually simultaneous.

Since the gaining of a CP at the start of the hero phase is just a thing that happens, and not an actual ability, the 1.6.2 rule could not be invoked and the bolded section in the quote above created, in effect, another timing layer that prevented me getting a point first to use with Rally.

 

Thoughts?

[yukishiro1]

edit: Oh, hmm, you get your 1 or 2 command points per battle round at the start of the round, not the hero phase. So I guess it is possible to use rally in the first turn of a battle round then, even if that interpretation is correct. It only comes up in the second turn, if you've already exhausted all your points from the beginning of the battle round and the first turn hero phase. So yeah, in that case, I think she is right and that you can't use rally, because of the language re: it occurring not just at the start of the phase, but before anything else happens. IMO that trumps the language of "start of the phase" for gaining the CP, so you don't even get into a discussion of whether sequencing could apply. 

In other words:

Rally occurs at stage 0 of the hero phase, gaining the CP occurs at stage 1. 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by yukishiro1

[PJetski]

As per the sidebar in 19.3 "The spell used to summon an endless spell is still a spell for rules purposes".

Since Endless Spells have a "range" characteristic in their SUMMONING description, effects that increase the range of spells should also increase the setup range of endless spells.

This means that Seraphon using the Saurus Astrolith Bearer can add 6" to the summoning range of all spells, which is usually an increase of 50-100% in their summoning range.

[Boar]

32 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Thoughts?

Well South Park was right, women will destroy us in tabletop games with better rules understanding😉.

 

Seriously tough, I would be inclined to say that RAW she is right. But I think that this interpretation holds on thin margin.

What rules lack here is description of game state that is "start of the phase". It is only written in reference too using abilities. That leaves out things like gaining CP, governed by core rules directly. My interpretation would use rules for abilities as there isn't anything else to reference. So I could place those effects somewhere, and hence put gaining CP form general and rally at same sub-phase.

But it is only mine lline of thinking, and like I wrote pure RAW your opponent seems to be in the right. Tough that leaves core rules effects that affects start, or end of phase in kind of limbo perhaps?