AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Infeston]

Another question. Because people were also talking about the Ironblasters. Isn't it better to take a Grot Scraplauncher now? For me at least the Scraplauncher seems to be better than the Ironblaster.

And why does the Scraplauncher Rhinox have 1 attack, whereas the Ironblaster Rhinox has 2 attacks? Isn't this the same Rhinox?

Edited October 26, 2019 by Infeston

[Charleston]

6 minutes ago, Infeston said:

Another question. Because people were also talking about the Ironblasters. Isn't it better to take a Grot Scraplauncher now? For me at least the Scraplauncher seems to be better than the Ironblaster.

And why does the Scraplauncher Rhinox have 1 attack, whereas the Ironblaster Rhinox has 2 attacks? Isn't this the same Rhinox?

It depends. Scraplaunchers can deal serious damage to hordes but also loose power when the target gets smaller. They can benefit from the Battalion for an additional Attack and also to have some chaff around.

Ironblaster are less dependent on their Target and can therefore also be used to take a luckshot on a hero or monster. They also can do good damage in meele and do not have to stay back like a Scraplauncher should. Also the new second shooting mode allows them even more flexibility.

For the different attacks on the rhinox it doesn´t look even weird to me: An ogor can easily weaponize his mount, meanwhile the Gnoblars rather can´t.

[Fyrm]

25 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Edit: Ok, found the Battlelines. Gluttons unconditional. BCR Battlelines if BCR General, Ironguts and Leadbelchers (4+ models) with a Gutbusters General, and Frostsabers and Yheetees are cound to certain Heroes. All in all a big and diverse list.

I was looking for this as well! Thanks! 

 

Hmmm. So the focuses of both my list ideas can become battleline. Neat! I’ll orobably start with the shooty list though, easier to turn on/purchase. Just gotta convert all the Gluttons in the FoB box [presuming I can get it...] into Leadbelchers, run the tyrant as general, grab a BCR SC, and I’ll be good to go! 2 blocks of 4 Leadbelchers for battleline! Looks like I can still build the Mournfangs as 2 blocks of 2, so I can get 2 more shots from them. Should be a very interesting army!

[Frowny]

Some things I've noticed

Thunderbellies mornefangs are fast. 9+2 (hungry) + run and charge, +3 charge (general, instrument, mount trait)= 15+3d6 move. (average 25). With either the guarnteed 6 inch run or the prayer, you have excellent odds on a 1st turn charge. And they hit hard. You could try the payer, if it goes off, save the CP for the rr wounds, and if it fails, use it for the 6 inch run. The charge damage should enable to the 'must be bleeding' condition relatively easily.

Hunter + frost sabers is an easy outflank+ charge with +3 to charge on arrival. The battalion for +4 seems solid too, allowing you to easily fill your battleline, lots of little bodies, and nice easy charges.

The mortal wounds on charges for the big beasties counts for quite a bit of damage. MSU I think will be one of the main ways to go anyway, and gets you a good number of those triggers.

It is very easy to get low drops, with several easy 1-drop battalions if you are so inclined. 2 battalions will get you a very diverse army with lots of good choices.

The ranged options are terrible compared to those in cities of sigmar. 

Gnoblars I think will fill an important role camping backfield objectives and providing screens. They cover area really really well for their price, although unlike other hordes they hit like wet noodles even with buffs in place. I still think that 2x20 will be a role-player for many lists though. 

 

[annarborhawk]

I think the 5+ FNP on Stonehorns might math-out better overall than the 1/2 damage mechanic given all the 1 wound weapons out there.  Also a defense to mortal wounds now?

Based on what we know, this book might be a major upgrade for BCR anyway. Certainly, it takes them out of the basement I think and into viability.

[Fabint]

4 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

Command Traits

Tyrant
1. Furious Guzzler: at the start of your hero phase you can heal d3 wounds to your general if they're eating
2. Prodigious Girth: add 2 to general's wounds characteristic
3. Killer Reputation: general can take a 2nd big name. No duplicates.
4. Mighty Bellower: enemy units who fail battleshock within 6" of this general, an additional d3 models flee.
5. An Eye for Loot: the one previewed. RR hits and wounds in melee vs enemy w/ artefact
6. Crushing Bulk: general is treated as a monster for Trampling Charge

Butcher
1. Questionable Hygiene: subtract 1 for hit rolls for enemies within 6" of this general
2. Herald of the Gulping God: whilst this general is eating, friendly units wholly within 12" dont need to take battleshock tests.
3. Growling Stomach: subtract 2 from enemy bravery within 12" of this general whilst they are hungry.
4. Gastromancer: this general knows all spells from the Lore of Gutmagic
5. Rolls of Fat: add 2 to general's wounds characteristic
6. Spell-eater: previewed one where you can get an extra spell for dispelling endless spells

These are the ones I could be bothered to type out. Not so fussed on the BCR stuff but it's in the pic

Thanks for this. Decided to add on with the BCR rules I could grab before I have to head out this morning. Have some Command Traits for BCR, all artefacts, BCR prayers, and the mount traits (So good)

 

Allegiance

Charge, roll dice rule for mortal wounds

Grasp of the everwinter
Roll for each thing within 3" of each BCR model...
Objective control rule
Hungry or Eating rule

Everwinter Prayers
Each priest knows 1 prayer....
Can chant a prayer each turn, only once per turn per prayer

BCR
Command Traits

Huskard and Frostlords
Nomadic Raider
Reroll wound rolls when fully in enemy territory

Voice of the avalanche
-Use command ability on warscroll without CP once per turn

Frostfell Aura
-Units within 3" cannot retreat

Master of Mournfangs
-No shock tests for Mournfangs within 18"

Skillful rider
-Halve the number of wounds when determining were you are on the damage table

Touched by everwinter
-Becomes a priest or knows an extra spell

Hunters
Winter Ranger
-If in ambush gain d3 command points
?!

Eye of the Blizard
 -1 to hit

BLood vulture gaze
Add 1 to hit and wound rolls for issile weapons for this general

Frost breath hits d3 enemies instead of 1

Raised by yhetees
Add 1 to attacks of yhetees

Skal packmaster
Up to 2 units can join in ambush

Artefacts

Tyrants
Headsmash
damage 4 

+4" move when hungry

Trophy Rack
Add 1 to hit rolls for friendly gutbusters in 12" if targeting monster or hero

Flask of blood
Once per... 4+ FNP

Skytitan scatter pistols
Attack 6 on pistol

Fang of Ghur
Glaive characteristic is -3

Butcher
Butchers vitals

Dracoline heart
1/battle, pick one mawpot in 6", becomes full

Shrunken head
5+ FNP vs mortal wounds

Apron
Cast an additional spell each hero phase

+2 to roll when unbind  or dispellendless spells

Tusks
+1 to charge rolls for friendly monters within 9

Spores
1/battle, pick enemy unit within 6", roll a die per model in the unit, 6+ is a mortal wound.

Relics of the Everwinter

Rhymeshroud
Reroll hit rolls of 6 for attacks vs the bearer

Blade of allfrost
When this deals wounds to a model, if the model isn't slain subtract -1 to hit and wound rolls.

Carvalox flank
Yhetees get +2 movement

Alvager
1/battle until start of next hero phase reroll hit and wound rolls and save rolls

Dragar
1/battle unbind spells as a wizard, auto works

Elixer of frostwyrm
Pick an enemy unit within 9, enemy unit takes d6 mortal wounds and bearer takes d3

Hunter
Pelt
Heal d3 mortal wounds in your hero phase

Browplate
+1 to save rolls, gain +1 command point at start of hero phase

Bolts
Crossbow does d3 mortals on unmodified hit rolls of 6

Prayers
Pulverizing Hailstorm
4+
If answered pick a point in 18, each unit within 3 roll, on a 3+ d3 mortal wounds

Keening gail
4+
Pick mosnter or mournfang, gain 3 to their move (wholly within 18")

Call of blizzard
4+
Return 1 slain yheti

Mount traits!
Stonehorn

+1 to hit rolls with horns

d6 mortals to an enemy with a 4 or better save

Treat rolls under 7 for charge as a 7 to determine dice to roll for mortal wounds

Rend of crushing hooves +1

+1 wound

Add 1 to charge rolls for stonehorn and mournfangs within 12"

Thundertusks

Reroll dice when making charge rolls

When eating can heal a wound

+1 save vs rend

+1 wound

+1 to charge rolls for thundertusks

If didn't charge, start of combat phase enemy models within 3" fight last
!!!!

Mawpot, anywhere more than 1" from terrain, 12" from enemy territory, 6" from objective
+1 to casting within 1"
Starts full
Heal d3 to each within 36'
When an enemy within 6" dies, pot becomes full

[TheWilddog]

Looking over the stuff as mostly a BCR player and a couple thing look good:

Mournfang, looking legit now with the upgrades and the buffs we can get on them.

Eurlbad battalion: Additional mortal wounds on 6s from melee attacks for the whole battalion, for 140. Yes please. This thing seems like a no brainer. All my initial thoughts have started there.

[Dr Ben]

 

2 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

I think the 5+ FNP on Stonehorns might math-out better overall than the 1/2 damage mechanic given all the 1 wound weapons out there.  Also a defense to mortal wounds now?

Based on what we know, this book might be a major upgrade for BCR anyway. Certainly, it takes them out of the basement I think and into viability.

Agreed. I don't think GW was ever going to make their cheapest and probably quickest to paint army S tier. That would just be a disaster for the game. Likewise, with frost wreathed ice, that ability had such a bad reputation it was very unlikely to stay the same this book. I think with the wide range of mild to moderate buffs, new abilities/combos and minor per-model points reductions for a couple of key units, it will definitely be able to mix with most armies now.

Also agreed on the 5+ FNP being better than halving damage in most games. Especially now you have a few different ways to heal and start with extra wounds. I think I might try using a tanked up Stonehorn as a distraction carnifex whilst a couple of units of ironguts run around actually killing (and eating) everyone.

42 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

Looking over the stuff as mostly a BCR player and a couple thing look good:

Mournfang, looking legit now with the upgrades and the buffs we can get on them.

Eurlbad battalion: Additional mortal wounds on 6s from melee attacks for the whole battalion, for 140. Yes please. This thing seems like a no brainer. All my initial thoughts have started there.

 

2 hours ago, Frowny said:

It is very easy to get low drops, with several easy 1-drop battalions if you are so inclined. 2 battalions will get you a very diverse army with lots of good choices.

The ranged options are terrible compared to those in cities of sigmar. 

Gnoblars I think will fill an important role camping backfield objectives and providing screens. They cover area really really well for their price, although unlike other hordes they hit like wet noodles even with buffs in place. I still think that 2x20 will be a role-player for many lists though. 

Mournfang have definitely improved quite a bit. You can combo up for some very juicy looking charges.

I think the battalions generally are good for both Gutbusters and BCR. I expect most armies will use at least 1. They're a reasonable price, especially compared to the old BCR ones. None of the abilities are crazy, but most do something vaguely useful in addition to lowering drops, artifact and CP. The unit compositions are pretty sensible and a solid core for most of the lists most people will probably want to make. The last point is especially key for me. My other main army is dispossessed, who didn't get a single battalion in the mostly really good CoS book (unless you collect high elves anyway).  

The ranged options may be terrible, but at least mawtribes actually have cannons!

[Reuben Parker]

Based on models I own I might try a little combined arms force to start. 
 

FLoSH

2 Slaughtermasters 

Hunter General 

12 gluttons 

9 yeti 

10 and 4x2 cat

skal 

not sure what sub faction to take at the moment though with such a mixed force. 

[Fyrm]

3 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

Based on models I own I might try a little combined arms force to start. 
 

FLoSH

2 Slaughtermasters 

Hunter General 

12 gluttons 

9 yeti 

10 and 4x2 cat

skal 

not sure what sub faction to take at the moment though with such a mixed force. 

Could always go with no subfaction. Open up some of the other command traits, which can be nice. D3 command points while Hunter is in ambush, or being along a second pack of kitties, could both be nice. 

[Mutton]

It's tempting to take a Hunter as your general just to keep him in ambush the whole game, getting D3 CP every turn. Means you could likely be rerolling 1's to hit for every combat phase.

[Fabint]

Little more typing out for those who can't watch the videos

Battalions
Gutbuster warglut
-Gut guard
-Goreband
-Butcher Band
-Junk Mob

Roll a d6 for each model at the start of your hero phase, move that far.

Gut Guard
Tyrant
1-3 units of ironguts
Blasters
4+ tyrant passes damage to Ironguts

Goremand
1 Slaughter Masters
1-3 Gluttons
1 Unit of Ironguts

Slaughter Masters can use their cauldron twice

Butcher Band
Butcher
1-3 Lead Belcher
1-3 Gluttons
1 Ironguts

Start of hero phase heal 1 damage to units within 12" of the Butcher

Junk Mob
1-3 Gnoblars
1-3 Scrap Launchers

Add 1 to attacks of scrap launchers when near Gnoblars

BCR
Alfrostun
FLoXX
-Urlbad
-Jorlbad
-Torrbad
Makes the grip of winter damage go off easier by 1

Jorlbad
Huskard SH
1-3 beastriders SH
2-4 Mournfang
Start of hero phase in the first battle round move D6

Eurlbad
Huskard on SH
1-3 SH Beastriders
2-4 Mournfang Packs
If hit roll is 6 does 1 mortal on top of normal damage

Torrbad
Huskard on TT
3-9 TT Beastriders
0-3 Yetis
Start of hero phase roll a d6 for any enemies within 3" of a unit in this battalion
On a 2+ take a mortal wound

Skal
1-6 Icebrow Hunters
2-10 sabers
+1 to charge rolls when within 10" of another unit in this battalion
 

[Dongilles]

What has happend to te tyrant with the gutgouger? Had he been replaced with the new tyrant?

[FPC]

17 minutes ago, Dongilles said:

What has happend to te tyrant with the gutgouger? Had he been replaced with the new tyrant?

Yep looks like it.

[grimshwiz]

6 hours ago, TheWilddog said:

Looking over the stuff as mostly a BCR player and a couple thing look good:

Mournfang, looking legit now with the upgrades and the buffs we can get on them.

Eurlbad battalion: Additional mortal wounds on 6s from melee attacks for the whole battalion, for 140. Yes please. This thing seems like a no brainer. All my initial thoughts have started there.

As a new BCR player are you planning on using gargant hackers or other weapons now? I can't seem to figure out which is best now.

[Zappgrot]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:20 PM, FPC said:

I be happy to see evidence that these were rushed but I haven’t heard that straight from GW. Again, lack of “newness” doesn’t mean they were rushed. Several factions received nothing but endless spells and maybe a hero. There is a similar window between Mawtribes announcement and release and they’re getting a new model.

And either way, like others said, if the results were good, why does development time matter? GW have spent years developing SCE and they’ve ranged from top-tier competitive to their current state (1-2 solid builds, lots of junk, everything in between).  Time of development isn’t always a good indicator of quality as far as GW is concerned.

Also wasn’t one of the first studio interviews with one of the Cities devs who basically said this project had been his masterpiece, and maybe even that it had been a long time coming?  Heck there have been rumors of an Empire revive since at least early 2019.

While I would like to give you evidence. I am pretty sure my acquaintance would become pretty  irritated whit me if i did. Since naming him would probebly lead to him getting a bit of flak from GW  But maybe I should be more specific in what I mean.  When I say rush job i don't mean they did a bad job or spend less time on it then needed. It's just that these books where seen as a necessity(since the old ones wher so outdated) and  did not go trough a full design cycle. They where made to get destruction a bit more modern.  And to meet the demand for a more "grounded army) Both where issues raised during the design cylce of the moonclan Grots.  It's nothing more or  nothing less then an explanation for the lack of new things in these books. 

[FPC]

3 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

While I would like to give you evidence. I am pretty sure my acquaintance would become pretty  irritated whit me if i did. Since naming him would probebly lead to him getting a bit of flak from GW  But maybe I should be more specific in what I mean.  When I say rush job i don't mean they did a bad job or spend less time on it then needed. It's just that these books where seen as a necessity(since the old ones wher so outdated) and  did not go trough a full design cycle. They where made to get destruction a bit more modern.  And to meet the demand for a more "grounded army) Both where issues raised during the design cylce of the moonclan Grots.  It's nothing more or  nothing less then an explanation for the lack of new things in these books. 

Well that’s perfectly fine to argue but without backup I’m pretty hesitant to believe this anonymous source. “Rush job” 100% implies that they didn’t spend appropriate time on so thanks for the clarity.  But, at the same time....did these books really need a full development cycle? In my mind a “full cycle” means a start-to-finish army build.  Why would they entirely redesign armies from the ground up if they don’t need it? And if we’re still talking lack of “newness” with Ogors that’s wrong bc they are getting terrain. 

Regardless at this point I’m not even sure what your argument is. You’ve admitted that Cities isn’t bad, and I’d argue it’s good.  I don’t know enough about Orks to comment, and so far I think Ogors look pretty solid. I don’t deny that the goal of several recent books is to meet demand from players who have been waiting and to solidify these armies.  This is true of more than Destruction factions - Cities, BoC, Skaven, Slaanesh even.  But...again, there is new stuff in Mawtribes, so...idk...seems like they put time into development.

[IkedaT]

As a non-destruction player, what do ya'll see being the purchases needed?  This army looks great to tickle my "smaller" wants boxes.

I THINK it looks like 1-2 FoB's, maybe a BCR SC (magnetizing?), what else?

[TheWilddog]

45 minutes ago, grimshwiz said:

As a new BCR player are you planning on using gargant hackers or other weapons now? I can't seem to figure out which is best now.

I would say the Prey Hacker and Ironfists are the way to go. The traditional problem with MF was that they whiffed a lot of the time. So the Hackes with 3 attacks 3 up, 3 up no rend 2 damage seems much better that 2 attacks 4 up 3 up -1 rend 3 damage.  Especially in with the Eurlbad battalion that gives additional mortals on 6s, I think the move will be to throw out as many attacks as possible. 

[Shankelton]

13 minutes ago, IkedaT said:

As a non-destruction player, what do ya'll see being the purchases needed?  This army looks great to tickle my "smaller" wants boxes.

I THINK it looks like 1-2 FoB's, maybe a BCR SC (magnetizing?), what else?

I think it depends if you are going with more of a BCR monster Mash. If that's the case, then I would pick up 2 BCR start collecting boxes to magnetize as a pretty good start. Also a FoB's box since It might be a long time before we see the tyrant. It's really too soon to give anything more meaningful purchase wise, but I'd say the BCR start collecting boxes will still be amazing value.

[KriticalKhan]

13 minutes ago, IkedaT said:

I THINK it looks like 1-2 FoB's, maybe a BCR SC (magnetizing?), what else?

BCR SC is always a good choice, but IMO Feast of Bones isn't really worth it unless you want the Tyrant model. The Ironblaster is a waste of space, you only get two leadbelchers*, and a Tyrant can be converted from just about every Ogre kit out there. Monetarily it's objectively a good deal, but selling off the Bonereapers might be more hassle than it's worth and the best part of the box is that it comes with some gluttons.

*Which is a legal unit size, but if you want leadbelchers you're better off just buying a box of them.

[Zappgrot]

19 minutes ago, FPC said:

Well that’s perfectly fine to argue but without backup I’m pretty hesitant to believe this anonymous source. “Rush job” 100% implies that they didn’t spend appropriate time on so thanks for the clarity.  But, at the same time....did these books really need a full development cycle? In my mind a “full cycle” means a start-to-finish army build.  Why would they entirely redesign armies from the ground up if they don’t need it? And if we’re still talking lack of “newness” with Ogors that’s wrong bc they are getting terrain. 

Regardless at this point I’m not even sure what your argument is. You’ve admitted that Cities isn’t bad, and I’d argue it’s good.  I don’t know enough about Orks to comment, and so far I think Ogors look pretty solid. I don’t deny that the goal of several recent books is to meet demand from players who have been waiting and to solidify these armies.  This is true of more than Destruction factions - Cities, BoC, Skaven, Slaanesh even.  But...again, there is new stuff in Mawtribes, so...idk...seems like they put time into development.

There is no point other then. They did not do a full (re)design cycle and that is why there isn't all that much new stuff. But in hindsight that might be true for a lot of the latest realeses .(well not slaanesh clearly) but  might be for Flesh eater corst for instance.  My "friend" just mentioned these 3 books. But i didn't ask about otheres. (didn't think of it really)  They did spend a lot of time on the new death faction according to him tough.  Claims it to be a tightly designed army. (something I learned to translate to overpowered in my mind) 

[Fyrm]

So, I know I asked this earlier, but I pulled the trigger on my FoB box and I kinda would like to know some specifics. How would one go about converting a glutton box into Leadbelchers? Should I just go online and look for bits, or is there a passable way with just what comes from the gluttons/leftovers from building the two Leadbelchers in the box/leftovers from building the cannon and tyrant [going for an undergut list, thinking I’m going to keep it at 1k, a tyrant, a cannon, 2 blocks of 4 Leadbelchers, and a huskard on Thundertusk. Everything shoots, everything can fight in melee, run around and just be problems all over the board.]

[FPC]

8 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

There is no point other then. They did not do a full (re)design cycle and that is why there isn't all that much new stuff. But in hindsight that might be true for a lot of the latest realeses .(well not slaanesh clearly) but  might be for Flesh eater corst for instance.  My "friend" just mentioned these 3 books. But i didn't ask about otheres. (didn't think of it really)  They did spend a lot of time on the new death faction according to him tough.  Claims it to be a tightly designed army. (something I learned to translate to overpowered in my mind) 

Yea I guess that’s my point tho...other than Slaanesh a lot of the rework books lately seem more like a streamline of rules and maybe toss in spells/terrain. I don’t consider any of them more or less “completely” designed.  There is definitely variance in terms of power level but that’s a different idea entirely.

I also still maintain I remember seeing something (maybe even official from GW?) where one of the CoS devs said it was his dream project of sorts and a lot of time was spent on it. 

Either way, I’d hardly consider lacking endless spells lack of development/underdeveloped.

[IkedaT]

1 minute ago, FPC said:

lacking endless spells lack of development/underdeveloped.

I was under the impression Mawtribes had access to both Prayers and Spells, is that incorrect?