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annarborhawk last won the day on December 23 2019

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  1. Regarding Knights of Empty Throne, I still think you are better off with more 3x man units of Varanguard to maximize your chances with "Failure is not an Option." In my experience, hitting that 5+ (let alone multiple times a game) is a psychological back-breaker. They work soooo hard to kill a unit of varanguard, and then it comes back, but it doesn't really just come back - IT'S A NEW UNIT, it appears in the backfield, and because it's a new unit it gets that once-per-battle double pile-in and attack. It's really really really nasty. I get the idea of the 6 man unit having the grasping plate, and I'll admit I never tried that, but I would think positioning a 6 man unit to use that 6" pile effectively would be pretty rough on most real-world tables.
  2. I think that's the issue, then. The 1" range IS really tough with the large cav bases. As Rrork, I've not had a problem getting the whole unit of 5 in with 2" lances. (So yeah, you better get the damn charge in or they're toast). Not saying I love knights, but moderate buffs and lances make them pretty hard-hitting on the charge.
  3. I had great success with them in a 2v2 tourney. Make sure you are aware of the errata making them a damned legion, etc. You want to run them in units of 3, because the 5+ command ability "Failure is not an option" lets you bring on a new 3x unit, but you need an alive hero (another unit of varanguard) to spend the command point on. My 1000 pt list was: 3x Varan, 3x Varan, Sorceror Lord, 5x Knights, 5x Warriors - All Mark of Khorne (cept the sorceror of course). I did LOTS and LOTS of maths and test rolling for damage output, and since there are no circles, you want your varanguard to be marked khorne and be armed with daemonic weapons. Just trust me on that. I spent a whole day rolling 1000's of dice to test the options. In the 5 game tourney, on at least 4 occassions I got off "Failure is not an option" , basically for the win. And you are right about Grasping plate. It is grossly strong. You can run to within 5 1/2 inches of your target. The extra long pile-in means you can chose when they fight w/o enemy being able to do anything about it. Then you get the once/game SECOND 3" pile in and attack. It's just a very deadly combo. And then you have that 1/3 chance to bring back the "NEW" unit when it dies, giving IT the once per game second attack!
  4. The errata for the Wrath of the Everchosen book gives the Varanguard the HERO keyword.
  5. How serious are you about this? Because if you are truly serious: Slaves to Darkness, Knights of the Empty Throne . You have Varanguard Cavalry counting as Leaders (4x units of 3)' Then for battleline you have 10x Chaos Knights; 10x Chaos Knights; 10x Marauder Horseman That's 42x mounted figures clocking in at 1980pts.
  6. 10" move + 6" advance (for a cp if needed) + 6" pile in. so 22" for first attack.
  7. 10" move + 6"advance +6" pile-in with grasping plate = 22" threat range. You don't need to charge to activate for combat w/grasping plate rule, so you can run to within 6". Regarding the second pile-in, the wording of grasping plate modifies when you can be chosen in combat phase for activation to w/in 6". I suppose that's not crystal clear w/how it combines with "Relentless Killers" In my games I only every needed the 3" for the second pile-in anyway (or even more typically I had to use the second attack to keep fighting the first target). Doubt we'd get a FAQ on that.
  8. So I had pretty good success with a Knights of the Empty Throne list at a doubles tournament over the weekend. We went 4-1 (losing to the champions). Anyway I had: Varanguard (general) (khorne) (reroll charge trait) (6" pile in artefact) (deamonforged weapons) Varanguard (khorne) (demonic weapons) Sorcerer Lord (mask of darkness) 5x knights (khorne) 5x warriors (khorne) [Partner had Gore Pilgrims and Blood Thirster] Anyway, the 6" pile-in artifact (grasping plate), together with the once per game attack twice is REALLY effective. When that unit gets Oracular Vision'd and Demonic Powered - holy hell. The 6" pile in gives your general a 22" threat range. (And it was REALLY handy at avoiding the insane overwatch fire from CoS handgunners). That second pile in I was often able to use to get to some juicy prize behind a screen. In the two tightest games we won, both units of varanguard were ultimately killed - which required a lot of resources to do - but in each game I got one of the 5-up's to bring on a new a unit of Varanguard from a table edge to secure an objective (and the win). (And as a new unit, it gets to attack twice). I think that 2000 pt Pleasurebound Warband list above will probably be extremely good. Although, as I read the rules for that battalion, those other units of Varanguard will need to get that initial charge in b4 they can use the 6" pile in; whereas the general will be able to camp at 6" after a run, and then pile in 9" - twice). I'm thinking maybe making the general a unit of 6x varanguard - 22" threat, followed by 2x 9" pile in's: talk about limiting your opponent's deployment/movement options..... Another note, I ran the numbers b4 the tournament: W/O Archaon, Daemonforged Weapons and Mark of Khorne give you the best expected damage output vs. most defensive profiles, no matter the buffs. (They were reliably doing 10-14 damage vs. a 4+ target). In Host of Everchosen, with 6th Circle, etc. - then enscorcelled weapons are the way to go....
  9. ....love it. (Except you can only give your General the Command Trait) Maybe give the Sorcerer Mask of Darkness instead so you can teleport a reincarnated Varanguard to where you need it?
  10. Mind you, I'm not trying to get greedy. I'm super-excited that Empty Throne is now a a damned legion. But if I read this right, Empty Throne Varanguard still do not get to chose a circle b/c that only applies to the other damned legion, correct?
  11. Culling clubs are more consistent and math-out better vs no armor. I like the -1 rend on the hackers. Also with larger units of Mournfang the 2” reach can really make a difference. But apart from that, it’s BCR we’re talking here, GO BIG OR GO HOME, I say - of course gargantuas hackers!!!!!
  12. So, I proposed the following partial solution to the FAQ team (given that it would require too much to rewrite Knights of the Empty Throne as a sub-faction): ". . . . A simple way to remedy this would be to make a slight change to the “Overlords of Chaos” Battalion in the Slaves to Darkness Battletome to allow “Knights of the Empty Throne Varanguard” OR “Host of the Everchosen Varanguard” to be included in the battalion. That way, Knights of the Empty Throne Varanguard would have access to Circles without giving them the whole Slaves to Darkness Allegiance. " I was trying to ask for a remedy that wasn't shooting for the moon.....
  13. Great idea. Maybe it's an oversight.... What's the email address for that? Maybe the more people that ask, the better the chances.... And, it is a bit oddly worded. They do mention that you are choosing a "Slaves to Darkness" army, but then say you have a different allegiance. Does that mean you can take any StD units? If so, what counts as battle line? etc, etc. They left quite a few questions.
  14. It has a few other things: a command ability mechanic to reduce the number of enemy models that count towards holding objectives, 3x command traits and 3x artifacts, and also a once-per-game mechanic to bring back a dead varanguard unit on a 5+. It would make a nice Legion choice under StD instead of its own separate allegiance. IMO, we are way better off running Varanguard in the Host of the Everchosen to get the Circle and Auras.
  15. Thundertusks are not worth it anymore with the nerf they got, IMO. The only exception I see to this is maybe a Huskard on Thudertusk with the mount trait that requires enemies w/in 3" to fight last. You can surround that guy with Ironguts or Leadbelchers, put them in a central position and force some bad choices. But, personally, if you're going BCR, it's all about the aggression anyway, so Stonehorns and Mournfangs.....
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