The Rumour Thread

[mojojojo101]

From a player perspective Im really not sure this modular rules thing is actually that big a change. It seems to me this how a lot of players were doing anyway. I mean how many players are actually playing with Mystical Terrain?

I'm happy that they are considering Matched Play and Competitive Play (GHB) as seperate s a good thing.

 

Concerns are that the nature of the internet is going to mean that pick up games and the general conversation around the game online will still be wholly centered around the current GHB rules. Also the suggestion that they will use these modules as some sort of mechanic for balancing the game... that sounds quite worrying.

[Gaball Slaaneshi]

I fear only that because of Internet and youtubers, peoples continue to play only with GHB rules because "it's the complet game !" that is seriously stupid.

[Ejecutor]

10 minutes ago, Flippy said:

Of course they will. People are overanalysing the wording of this article way too much.

This reminds me of how we were reading that BOC would be removed, the other day, from an article that was saying 'the factions' instead of 'all factions' and a couple of days later we had another article saying 'all factions'.

Edited March 28 by Ejecutor

[Flippy]

1 hour ago, ScionOfOssia said:

How tho, the OBR Spearhead would either need to be reworked to include a Liege-Kavalos or the Soulreaper will need to be reworked to, for the first time in history, not suck.

You can just create a different Soulreaper warscroll for the Spearhead mode - and add some ability instead of magic. The easy solution is the most likely one.

[Mutton]

1 hour ago, Cdance93 said:

TBH, they're putting the GHB in the launch box - I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking steps to certain rules for free

They actually say that the "Battle Plans and Tactics from the GHB will be in the launch box." They don't say the GHB will be.

[Asbestress]

6 minutes ago, Mutton said:

They actually say that the "Battle Plans and Tactics from the GHB will be in the launch box." They don't say the GHB will be.

Maybe they'll "put" the GHB into the launch box version of the core book, like how the Leviathan book had an extra 102 pages compared to the separate release to include the first Crusade campaign book.

[ScionOfOssia]

25 minutes ago, Flippy said:

You can just create a different Soulreaper warscroll for the Spearhead mode - and add some ability instead of magic. The easy solution is the most likely one.

Ah, but this ignores 1 fundamental rule of reality- The Soulreaper is not allowed to be good anywhere it shows up! 

[DoctorPerils]

3 hours ago, Aleser said:

So there wont be magic in Sperhead mode? How does wizard units work there then

I'm imagining/hoping that:

- wizards will have some "weapon" spell profiles and some auras on their datacards that functionally work no differently to other weapons and auras (like 10e 40k);

- and then the magic module brings in spell lores with more wacky effects, as well as Endless Spells + Incarnates. Also with any special effects like Perils of the Warp, or how to counter spells, etc.

[Tonhel]

Probably modules is a more fanzy buzz word for chapters. 🙂 And indeed most will play the complete set of modules, although we are already ignoring battle tactics and the terrain effects already in third.
 

I can't imagine I would play without commands, magic, army composition and command models. Imo it would be a rather dull and barebone game.

It will be interesting to see how the game works with all the modules, but without the magic module. There has to be something added to compensate the loss of magic for Soulblight, Tzeentch, Lumineth and etc..; . If the same warscroll is used for everything except Spearhead. The effect of losing the Magic module seems huge for some armies.

Edit: I was wrong as it seems that the Magic module is included in everything, except spearhead. Lol, I already find it confusing.

Edit2: PTG seems to most interesting option for casual players. Everything is in there except battle tactics, although than chosing the first turn has no more drawback anymore as BT aren't a thing. Lol.

Edited March 28 by Tonhel

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Tonhel said:

Probably modules is a more fanzy buzz word for chapters. 🙂 And indeed most will play the complete set of modules, although we are already ignoring battle tactics and the terrain effects already in third.
 

I can't imagine I would play without commands, magic, army composition and command models. Imo it would be a rather dull and barebone game.

It will be interesting to see how the game works with all the modules, but without the magic module. There has to be something added to compensate the loss of magic for Soulblight, Tzeentch, Lumineth and etc..; . If the same warscroll is used for everything except Spearhead. The effect of losing the Magic module seems huge for some armies.

Edit: I was wrong as it seems that the Magic module is included in everything, except spearhead. Lol, I already find it confusing.

Edit2: PTG seems to most interesting option for casual players. Everything is in there except battle tactics, although than chosing the first turn has no more drawback anymore as BT aren't a thing. Lol.

If they fully go with modules it is not just a wording change. The implications, as someone mentioned, is that the modules should work completely isolated, so that is a big constrain when you develop the rules. You are forced to do it in a particular way.

[Morathi is my Goddess]

This modular thing sounds like a load of codswallop to me. Something dreamed up in a room by Product and Marketing they can't clearly explain 😂

[GloomkingWortwazi]

I just wish they would get with the times and put the rules and unit rules and all of that stuff up online, free to access and commit to a regular update in that one place like nearly all of their decent competitors do (and have for a long time) - then we wouldn't even be worrying about if they're going to functionally paywall significant errata. CB's Infinity is 40K's "girl-next-door" for this and always has been.

I know it's been this way forever, I've been playing for a long time through many systems. I think I own a whole forest worth of GW's damn books. I know it's part of their business model... I just wish it wasn't... and yeah, I know... don't buy the books, wahapedia, yada yada... but imagine an officially maintained version without the time lag 🤩.

Edited March 29 by GloomkingWortwazi
formatting

[Luperci]

2 hours ago, GloomkingWortwazi said:

I just wish they would get with the times and put the rules and unit rules and all of that stuff up online, free to access and commit to a regular update in that one place like nearly all of their decent competitors do (and have for a long time) - then we wouldn't even be worrying about if they're going to functionally paywall significant errata. CB's Infinity is 40K's "girl-next-door" for this and always has been.

I know it's been this way forever, I've been playing for a long time through many systems. I think I own a whole forest worth of GW's damn books. I know it's part of their business model... I just wish it wasn't... and yeah, I know... don't buy the books, wahapedia, yada yada... but imagine an officially maintained version without the time lag 🤩.

The rules should 100% be free... But also I do not trust GW to operate a good online framework containing rules ie. Wahapedia given their track record. If they just released the army rules sections from the battletomes in printable pdf format? Golden. And they can still print battletomes that way, they'll just have to put the work in and write new fluff content and get new art instead of repeating the same book from the previous edition. THW rob made a good point in a video of his a little while back about free rules selling more models, in theory it's in GW's interests to do this, but I expect some old fashioned corporate heads are pushing for physical paper books for everything.

Edited March 29 by Luperci

[Chikout]

I'm exasperated by how much everyone is getting exasperated! Firstly I think there's a misunderstanding of what modular means. 

Imagine a 3x4 piece modular gaming board. It's not infinitely flexible. The corner pieces still need to go in the corner. The pieces still need to line with each other. You can leave the centre pieces out and build a 2x2 board, but you can't leave off one of the corner pieces. 

So in the AoS example you can play with just the core rules but that model is essential for every other version of the game and every subsequent module has to refer back to the core. You can play with just the core rules and commands, presumably coming from your general or something but you can't add the command models module unless you already have the comnand module. 

There's a weird problem in Warhammer. People largely treat the rules as sacronscant, but will happily carve expensive models into pieces. I've always found this weird. There have been lots of complaints about blizzard in the most recent ghb but few events leave the spell out. Comp is a dirty word in the community. 

GW have tried numerous times to tell players to do what they want with their rules but there's still a blind insistence to follow the full rules of a new GHB. I think gw is emphasising modularity in order to try and break that habit. 

Why does everyone just use the new GHB in every event? It would be a bit like the Halo team having just one playlist that everyone has to play for the next year. Creating a system that encourages player choice is a good thing even if most  people just end up  playing the most popular mode. 

The idea is that a new GHB isn't just an update to how the game plays but includes optional methods of play that can be added to the game or substituted for existing parts of the game. A GHB could introduce a new magic module that can be used instead of the previous one but doesn't replace it. 

How is this good for us? We'll have to see how it turns out in practice but in theory it lets them be more experimental with seasonal rules. They can add new modules that experiment with ways to play without forcing players to use them. I really hope TOs don't just blindly use everything in the next edition. 

 

 

[Mutton]

36 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I think gw is emphasising modularity in order to try and break that habit. 

I think there will always be a small set of people who insist that there's only one way to play. I've already heard arguments for it online and we're not even into the edition yet. It's usually the hyper competitive crowd. Which is fine, they can like whatever they want--as long as they aren't trying to force other people to play their way.

As for me. I look forward to experimenting with different modules.

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

There's a weird problem in Warhammer. People largely treat the rules as sacronscant, but will happily carve expensive models into pieces. I've always found this weird.

1) I can carve my expensive models into pieces alone at my hobby desk, whereas I need another person to play a game.

2) this requires an agreement on which version of the game to play

3) in my anecdotal experience, it's much easier to find a game playing what is (right or wrong) considered the standard way to play

Edited March 29 by Marcvs

[Jagged Red Lines]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

in my anecdotal experience, it's much easier to find a game playing what is (right or wrong) considered the standard way to play

Just for the record, most people who play this game regularly, including what is often described here as 'competitive' players, will not refuse you a game if you only want to play with the core rules.

That is particularly the case if you're learning the game. That's what this is designed for after all, and more people in the playing community is a great thing. Generally we're all mums and dads, so someone new will always be taken under a wing and looked out for.

That said, if you have been playing regularly for years, and know the full ruleset, you will know that by playing only the core rules you run the risk of gaining an unfair advantage.

So if your opponent is playing tzeentch or seraphon, and you suddenly decide you don't want to play with magic, even though you know perfectly well how magic works and know that your opponent's army relies on magic, that would probably be seen as a bit of a d**k move.

Similarly if you decide to play without faction terrain rules into Sylvaneth, or command abilities into OBR.

Or if you have just four mega gargants and you only want to play the primary, the opponent won't be scoring at all without secondary battle tactics.

This will totally be fine if you're learning the game, and most opponents will laugh it off and give you a pat on the back for winning. But you see how the full version of the game will likely be the standard at events.

I won't say it'll be 100% balanced, but it'll likely be the most balanced version of the game.

[Ejecutor]

What do you expect from today's Dawnbringers story? We gotta have to enter into Chaos territory pretty soon. I am expecting a story about either Khorne, Varanguard or Darkoaths.

[pnkdth]

It isn't just the hyper-competitive people who enjoy playing "the right way" but new players not wanting to end up playing a game no one plays. Modularity is great for when you already understand the game and introducing AoS to someone who is brand new to tabletop gaming (taking it one step at a time). 

Overall, I am not expecting this to blow our minds. Looks good as a presentation but the format is very familiar. For example, you can already choose not to use the GHB and stick the matched play rules only. Ultimately, even the most casual gamers enjoy games which are as fair as possible. That doesn't happen when playing open rules.

That said, if the rules are presented in a more practical and clearer way everyone's a winner.

[EntMan]

6 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

What do you expect from today's Dawnbringers story? We gotta have to enter into Chaos territory pretty soon. I am expecting a story about either Khorne, Varanguard or Darkoaths.

It's a bank holiday/Easter weekend in the UK today, not sure whether or not that'll affect WarCom output.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

4 hours ago, Chikout said:

The idea is that a new GHB isn't just an update to how the game plays but includes optional methods of play that can be added to the game or substituted for existing parts of the game. A GHB could introduce a new magic module that can be used instead of the previous one but doesn't replace it. 

If they manage to make the GHB truly an optional module, that sounds like a big improvement IMO.

I have said in the past that I think it is kind of sad that no "non-seasonal" version of 3rd ed exists. Battle plans, tactics and grand strats are too closely tied to the themes of the season to play them outside of that. I'd love to play some "basic" 3rd ed, but you kind of need to homebrew it. Core book only just has too little going on.

[Ejecutor]

30 minutes ago, EntMan said:

It's a bank holiday/Easter weekend in the UK today, not sure whether or not that'll affect WarCom output.

Uh, yeah. That is a good point, but they can leave them prepared and scheduled. The Book 6 cannot be delayed too much.

[OkayestDM]

11 hours ago, DoctorPerils said:

I'm imagining/hoping that:

- wizards will have some "weapon" spell profiles and some auras on their datacards that functionally work no differently to other weapons and auras (like 10e 40k);

- and then the magic module brings in spell lores with more wacky effects, as well as Endless Spells + Incarnates. Also with any special effects like Perils of the Warp, or how to counter spells, etc.

This actually makes sense and ties in with the 'Declare and Effect' nature of how abilities work now.

It would be very hard to properly points balance units that loose the thing that they do (magic, in this case) due to a modular rule set being taken out. However, if each wizard model is given a special ability (Boneshaper, Swampcaller, etc) that they always have access to, then magic really can become modular, provided none of the wizard abilities are treated as unique spells. The spell lore is simply tacked on, and only wizard-keyword units can cast them. For balance purposes, they may have to make a Swampcaller choice, where they can either use their ability or cast a spell, but not both. 

How good this modular system actually is will depend a lot on how they've approached warscrolls and abilities for this edition. There's plenty of room for error, but they demonstrated in 3rd that they have the capacity to write goodvrules and keep things fairly well balanced. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we have more than wild speculation and a defunct edition to go off of. 

[Luperci]

35 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

This actually makes sense and ties in with the 'Declare and Effect' nature of how abilities work now.

It would be very hard to properly points balance units that loose the thing that they do (magic, in this case) due to a modular rule set being taken out. However, if each wizard model is given a special ability (Boneshaper, Swampcaller, etc) that they always have access to, then magic really can become modular, provided none of the wizard abilities are treated as unique spells. The spell lore is simply tacked on, and only wizard-keyword units can cast them. For balance purposes, they may have to make a Swampcaller choice, where they can either use their ability or cast a spell, but not both. 

How good this modular system actually is will depend a lot on how they've approached warscrolls and abilities for this edition. There's plenty of room for error, but they demonstrated in 3rd that they have the capacity to write goodvrules and keep things fairly well balanced. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we have more than wild speculation and a defunct edition to go off of. 

If they reduce wizard's unique spell effects to unit abilities that'd kinda suck. Also I just realised they've been talking about magic but nothing has been mentioned about prayers yet I don't think? Sidenote, I wonder if the swampcalla will pay for his sins during this edition come the new index rules lol

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

15 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Also I just realised they've been talking about magic but nothing has been mentioned about prayers yet I don't think? 

Prayers can shove off. They're just tarted-up magic. I can't see why they can't just stop wasting everyone's time and just function as spells.