The Rumour Thread

[Sleboda]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:36 AM, silverstu said:

A thought did occur to me on Skaven- its strange they haven't gotten much

Purely opinion here, but I think the Skaven problem is its history and the players to whom they appeal.

 

They are the ultimate horde army. For decades, they were the army where a 2000 point force might have 6 units with 50 models in each unit as a starting point. Those 300 models were only 600 points (or so).

People bought absolute piles of models, built strategies around clogging up the field and overwhelming with sheer masses. The sort of players who were drawn to that idea built their armies that way and this cemented their style. A self fulfilling feedback loop of sorts. Development for generations of the game focused on massive hordes.

Now we have a game system clearly designed to minimize model count in many ways, and the rules don't really support moving 300+ models every turn. So, you say, why not just shift them to lower models counts? Well, try telling the very same players (and those to whom those players proselytized on the virtues of Skaven hordes) "Never mind. The thing that you loved about them, the thing that was their jam, is not a thing anymore."

It's gotta be tough to completely gut an entire faction's core concept and still retain the interest from their players.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Sleboda
Spelling

[brocktoon]

The thing is, I feel as though the horde thing still did ok for itself in AoS 2nd. It's 3rd that's pushing against hordes so hard. So I'm really curious to see how the Skaven thing plays out, from the ancient and quite flavorful bonus to Leadership/Bravery based on model count rule to the new reinforcement caps.

My inclination is to roll with my group's idiosyncratic approach to things: just ignore stuff and/or shape it up via house rules. We do only narrative, and honestly something between narrative and open (with points). We don't like 3rd's coherency rules because we like big meaty units of cavalry, so we ignore them. I suspect that we'll ignore or adjust reinforcement limits once the horde armies start rolling out.

That doesn't help the matched play at the store set, which is most people, I know, but getting a small core of player-friends you can do weird stuff with goes a long way toward tweaking things like this. Because you're right that shifting away from horde viability is going to make skaven (and goblins) feel weird.

[Jetlife]

4 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Purely opinion here, but I think the Skaven problem is its history and the players to whom they appeal.

 

They are the ultimate horde army. For decades, they were the army where a 2000 point force might have 6 units with 50 models in each unit as a starting point. Those 300 models were only 600 points (or so).

People bought absolute piles of models, built strategies around clogging up the field and overwhelming with sheer masses. The sort of players who were drawn to that idea built their armies that way and this cemented their style. A self fulfilling feedback loop of sorts. Development for generations of the game focused on massive hordes.

Now we have a game system clearly designed to minimize model count in many ways, and the rules don't really support moving 300+ models every turn. So, you say, why not just shift them to lower models counts? Well, try telling the very same players (and those to whom those players proselytized on the virtues of Skaven hordes) "Never mind. The thing that you loved about them, the thing that was there jam, is not a thing anymore."

It's gotta be tough to completely gut an entire faction's core concept and still retain the interest from their players.

 

Just my opinion.

 

It’s a solid point! It seems either very edition AOS is trying to get less models on the table and have games move quicker. We all known moving, charging and then piling in with a 50 man unit takes some time. I think for Skaven to be re introduced would require a significant change in the army dynamic. Leaning into the less models but assassin types could be the answer. Perhaps these new models released is a glimpse into the future. I’m not a Skaven player so I don’t know if that would turn away all the previous Skaven players or does their love for the army lie with their ratman aesthetic?? 

[ÞórarinnSig]

Since the topic has drifted towards what people like about the Skaven.

 

I love everything about the Skaven .From the outside, obviously, part of the whole appeal is that they are in my mind the most evil faction ever. Even the gods of chaos can somewhat work together no matter how much they hate one another. But the Skaven are so hopelessly incapable of not blowing each other up that it becomes comical at times. They´re grim, dark and hilarious.

As for their units. Giant monsters, Highly unstable super tech weaponry, ninja´s and crazy berserkers how can you not like that lineup?. You can focus on one or mix em up, and support them with endless waves of fodder. Its one of the most versatile armies GW have ever made. 

Part of the appeal is the versatility, its a problem an awful lot of battletomes in AOS have right now in my opinion. Too many army books have almost no options, 1-2 battleline and a few different factions only one of which has a special character with a model and rules. I have 8 skaven special character models in my collection and a book on the uniforms and heraldry of over 25 different clans. It took GW a long time to build the old world, I dont expect them to just whip out a fully fledged universe in a couple of years. But I do expect them to have some transparency regarding what the plan is if they want people to buy into such a massive undertaking that building a "proper" army is.  

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just a nudge but back to rumours please. The other stuff you’ve been discussing might make good topics… 😉😉

[FireAbend]

For the ‚upcoming‘ CoS release , comparing to SoB in 40k , how long does this take to hit stores? 1-2 years?

 

looking forward to some cool generic humans.

Old greatswords kit one of my faves, hhoping for some modern approach.

Edited May 15, 2022 by FireAbend

[Beliman]

15 minutes ago, FireAbend said:

For the ‚upcoming‘ CoS release , comparing to SoB in 40k , how long does this take to hit stores? 1-2 years?

 

looking forward to some cool generic humans.

Sisters were announced on Adepticon 2018 (march), and they were released (one box) on november 2019, but their full range was delivered in 2020/ 2021.

The Battle Sisters Bulletin started february 2019 and it was the first time that GW revealed anything about Sisters range, from concepts arts to renders and finally with their miniatures.

[Sharkbelly]

If some of the Cursed City sculpts are any indication, these should be really cool.

[silverstu]

22 hours ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

Really appreciate the optimism regarding the Fyreslayers and KO here. Old grognards from Bugman's Brewery like me (and IIRC also you?) remember what it was like to wait like 20 years for monopose Hammerers to be replaced with new monopose Hammerers. True Dawi back then were made of sturdier stuff than these new-fangled Duardin. Those were the days: forums were forums and the potato phone cam hadn't been invented yet... 

All jokes aside. I think a lot of the optimism could be extended to the Skaven too. One thing people don't mention so often is that they actually got a new wave of stuff around The End Times which clearly was designed with AoS in mind (e.g. the new Stormfiends). So in that sense they have at least some models that are reasonably up-to-date. What they would benefit from model-wise is a core range refresh. But I think they would also benefit from some lore updates. As of now each of their four great clans are largely the size of a smaller AoS force like Fyreslayers or IDK. Why not say there's a civil war with the conclusion that  Pestilens joins Nurgle and Moulder merges with Skryre - both are thematically reasonable choices - and then invent a new clan to take their place?

Yeah I would occasionally frequent Bugmans Brewery ! My fantasy dwarf army still has 2nd ed elements! I definitely think we have reason to be optimistic - especially for KO - Dagnai, Bugmanson, Gotrek and Drekki all show they are still designing dwarfs. The sylvaneth release looks to show they are coming back to the 1st edition releases and I remember when KO were released they stated "thats all for now" so I'd be very confident new dwarf stuff [and Skaven] is coming -they are just getting it right.

[Garrac]

So, just for release dates. Pure speculation here

 

We'll see how it turns out, but it wouldn't be very weird to have the box released 1-2 months before the battletomes. Only problem is, CSM and HH seem to be slated for May-June too (given the hype GW is building for the HH, and that the Khorne rules will be out for the 17 of June) so, I think the box will come at May-June before one of this releases, and the battletomes and new units for july, after the hype cycle has relaxed a little

 

And, of course, Warcry should be for july-august

[Ragest]

53 minutes ago, Garrac said:

So, just for release dates. Pure speculation here

 

We'll see how it turns out, but it wouldn't be very weird to have the box released 1-2 months before the battletomes. Only problem is, CSM and HH seem to be slated for May-June too (given the hype GW is building for the HH, and that the Khorne rules will be out for the 17 of June) so, I think the box will come at May-June before one of this releases, and the battletomes and new units for july, after the hype cycle has relaxed a little

 

And, of course, Warcry should be for july-august

I think June the box, July Ghb and August books

[Garrac]

14 minutes ago, Ragest said:

I think June the box, July Ghb and August books

Yeah, seems legit

 

Man, its gonna be 2 full packed months

[SirSalabean]

I’ve been told that non human cities units may be moved to legends if not souped into other books 

Edited May 15, 2022 by SirSalabean

[CeleFAZE]

1 hour ago, SirSalabean said:

I’ve been told that non human cities units may be moved to legends if not souped into other books 

While there certainly is precedent for this, they've made such a point to make the multi-racial makeup of the cities a rather foundational plot element. I'd be hard pressed to think of exactly where they'd put most of the remaining lines, unless they're going to go with Malerion flexing his qualifications as true phoenix king and uniting all the "unclaimed" elves under his banner, and the kharadron book including dispossessed.

Now that I put it to words that actually doesn't seem too far-fetched, though I'm concerned about the prospect of more lines getting discontinued in the process. 

[Maogrim]

8 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

While there certainly is precedent for this, they've made such a point to make the multi-racial makeup of the cities a rather foundational plot element. I'd be hard pressed to think of exactly where they'd put most of the remaining lines, unless they're going to go with Malerion flexing his qualifications as true phoenix king and uniting all the "unclaimed" elves under his banner, and the kharadron book including dispossessed.

Malerion as a god seems to be slightly less evil than in WHFB, but from what we know he still uses shadowy demons, rules his part of Ulgu with an iron fist and leaves most battles against Chaos to Morathi, Sigmar, Alarielle etc.. And sl@tshames his mother. So I can't really see him rallying Phoenix Guard or Sisters of the Thorn under his 'glorious' banner. The former Dark Elf units on the other hand seem to be mostly conmected to Har Kuron and thus to Morathi. But I guess they could switch sides again. 

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, SirSalabean said:

I’ve been told that non human cities units may be moved to legends if not souped into other books 

It is an assumption I (and others) have, but I haven't heard anything that I'd consider a rumour.

[DinoJon]

2 hours ago, SirSalabean said:

I’ve been told that non human cities units may be moved to legends if not souped into other books 

I would hope that's not the case since those kits are newer than some of those still used by factions like Skaven and Seraphon. Would be a shame to discontinue them. However in the reveal and days after there were some questions asking about the multi-species nature of Cities and they seem to shy away from it. So I would assume something is happening with those kits one way or the other. 

[Chikout]

2 hours ago, SirSalabean said:

I’ve been told that non human cities units may be moved to legends if not souped into other books 

Told by someone affiliated with GW, or told by someone reading too much into the Warhammer fest preview?

[Snorri Nelriksson]

So...next White dwarf will contains rules update for World eaters that are pretty much the new 40k  "standalone codex" after Votanns (so probably coming in 2023).
So considering this,i'd say that all white dwarf armies AOS got rules update in the white dwarf are just waiting for having their 3rd edition battletome with new units?(slaves were one of them iirc and they are getting things late this year).
So there's still hope for those armies?

Edited May 15, 2022 by Snorri Nelriksson

[KingBrodd]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/15/sunday-preview-sylvaneth-and-skaven-clash-in-next-weeks-pre-orders/

Echoes of Doom up for Pre Order next week and the Warbands from Warcry Red Harvest are available alongside the terrain seperately!!

Anyone else get the feeling we are getting hyped up for Season 2!? July/August release!?

[Twisted Firaun]

3 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/15/sunday-preview-sylvaneth-and-skaven-clash-in-next-weeks-pre-orders/

Echoes of Doom up for Pre Ordee next week and the Warbands from Warcry Red Harvest are available alongside the terrain seperately.

Anyone else get the feeling we are getting hyped up for Season 2!? July/August release!?

The hype is real your Swoleness, I can’t wait for the Horns of Hashut to march to war. Meanwhile, I need to pick up the Scions of the Flame, Splintered Fang, and Unmade (3 of my favorite warbands) as well as the tarantulos brood for my army in preparation for winter.

[Aleser]

4 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/15/sunday-preview-sylvaneth-and-skaven-clash-in-next-weeks-pre-orders/

Echoes of Doom up for Pre Ordee next week and the Warbands from Warcry Red Harvest are available alongside the terrain seperately.

Anyone else get the feeling we are getting hyped up for Season 2!? July/August release!?

that was fast  but I am fine with that 

[RyantheFett]

As someone who has rewatched and reread the crusader thing way too much they don't really have any answers there and I would even say the messaging is muddled at best. Them not clearing it up is somewhat worrying, but this update sounds pretty far away so meh?

While I still hope/think Cities will keep the non humans, I would not be shocked if they move the units to other armies, As others have pointed out some factions could really use a few new units. Daughters of Khaine, Sylvaneth, Kharadron Overlords, Fyreslayers, and maybe even Idoneth Deepkin could easily get a handful from the Cities roster to spice things up.

Going thought the Cities units a lot still hold up today. Worst looking are definitely the humans, but I think a lot are pretty good.

[cyrus]

38 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

So...next White dwarf will contains rules update for World eaters that are pretty much the new 40k  "standalone codex" after Votanns (so probably coming in 2023).
So considering this,i'd say that all white dwarf armies AOS got rules update in the white dwarf are just waiting for having their 3rd edition battletome with new units?(slaves were one of them iirc and they are getting things late this year).
So there's still hope for those armies?

Yes , i think so !

Slaves had a wd update and we know they will have a new battletome in winter.

So the four armies left without BT 3.0 or WD update are : Lumineth, Tzeentch,Gloomspite and Ogor mawtribes?

[Black_Templar_Lad]

30 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/15/sunday-preview-sylvaneth-and-skaven-clash-in-next-weeks-pre-orders/

Echoes of Doom up for Pre Ordee next week and the Warbands from Warcry Red Harvest are available alongside the terrain seperately.

Anyone else get the feeling we are getting hyped up for Season 2!? July/August release!?

So hyped for this pre order. 

I feel the hype too that Warcry 2 is coming real soon! 

And the hype begins for who will be joining the amazing Horns of Hashut in the new starter set....

And I honestly think it'll be Seraphon. I believe.