The Rumour Thread

[Furuzzolo]

Lets keep the topic on "CoS, date speculation and extreme anger." Pls.

[Overread]

2 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

Lets keep the topic on "CoS, date speculation and extreme anger." Pls.

But we did that - we're bored! We need a fresh moan!! 

 

Asides date speculation is any week from now until Christmas. 

[michu]

I think BCR players can feel reassured - Phill Kelly speaks right now about Ghur and its tribes and the Everwinter still exists.

[EccentricCircle]

In some ways Forge World have kind of lost their niche though. GW proper can make bigger, better models than ever before. Now that each new faction has a £60-100 centrepiece model, there isn't as much for Forge World to do. Back in the day you legitimately couldn't make those sorts of models out of metal, so doing them in resin made sense. But plastic will always be the superior material for that kind of thing, and whatever economy of scale GW have worked out in order to be able to make those airfix type kits is clearly paying off. Everyone I know would rather have those sorts of models as nice plastic kits, rather than brittle and hard to work with resin.

The only thing Forge World seems to have left up their sleeves are the ridiculously huge models like Smaug and the new Khorne Dragon, but those are so insanely expensive that I can't imagine they are selling many of them. I literally know of no one who has bought one of those £200+ models, and very few people who have anything that cost more than £100. (Obviously some folks on this forum will undoubtedly chip in to say "I did", but the population of one of the net's biggest GW forums isn't representative of what's actually going on on the ground).

They can release more of those giant dragons, and huge god beast type models, but I can't see that actually turning a profit for them. Maybe it works for 40K but I feel like even today AoS is still slightly too niche.

[Overread]

I think the niche is clearly upgrade packs but also unique stuff the main studio isn't making. Also dont' forget as good as GWs plastics are the resin still holds an edge for overall fine detail. I agree that the niche has been reduced considerably since not only are GW central more willing to have higher priced models, but they can do them in plastic whilst metal was just not sane to even attempt.

 

FW could even go into realm specific units even if they are alternate sculpts; though it would be hard to see them doing that for more than "stormcast". 

[Sleboda]

FW should make packs of 50 different nurglings. Useful for multiple games and cute as heck!

[Skreech Verminking]

2 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

FW should make packs of 50 different nurglings. Useful for multiple games and cute as heck!

Well if they started  making some very good looking weapon teams for the skaven, they would literally suffocate under a pile of warp tokens (money)

Edited September 4, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Overread]

Gw themselves should make weapon teams - if they were really smart they could even fit the jezzails into the set! Though I'd settle for just the 4 weapon team variations in plastic. 

[michu]

I thought about using Necron Deathmarks guns as Jezzails (mixed with Stormvermin bodies). Also the box contains Immortals with Gauss Blasters and Tesla Carbines  - you can us it as Warpfire Throwers and Warpgrinders.

Edited September 4, 2019 by michu

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, michu said:

I thought about using Necron Deathmarks guns as Jezzails (mixed with Stormvermin bodies). Also the box contains Immortals with Gauss Blasters and Tesla Carbines  - you can us it as Warpfire Throwers and Warpgrinders.

Oh I’ve been using all kinds of scraps, I found in my loot box for the skaven,

I basically got Clanrats and Stormvermins carrying stolen warpstone modified empire cannons, dark eldar guns, like shredder and splinter weapons, Tau rotary cannons, space marine plasma and melters, Dark aelves repeater hand-bows and crossbows, imperial backpacks, space marine jump packs,, Dwarf made Hand gauntlets, etc.

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Cèsar de Quart]

I do wonder why do some companies like Kromlech or Victoria make money on bits for Warhammer (usually competing among themselves for what I imagine is a small niche of 40k conversion, mostly Orks, Marines and to a lesser extent Imperial Guard and CSM) but GW doesn't get into it.

I mean, I don't know much about business, but Kromlech has existed for a while, and they must be making money. These are not your Facebooks or Ubers where they operate at a huge loss while they grow and gobble up investors eager to see returns in 5 or 10 years. These companies must have a very simple business plan of "produce resin kits at low price, sell them at a higher price, try not to get sued by GW in the process". 

GW could be getting all this money through FW. It probably isn't as much money to begin with, or they'd get into it right away.

[Overread]

I think part of it is scale. A lotof those 3rd party companies don't serve vast markets. They fit a niche which is fine for them as many are very small teams, heck some are one person doing all the design, casting and shipping. They appear really popular online, but in reality they only target a very small minority of the market. 

GW has to consider the bigger picture of mass scale production for the whole market. The number of staff involved and investment is far far greater for them. They are bigger, but they also cost more to produce a product as a result. In addition they've got to make enough stock to stock a global supply chain.

Though some of the companies like Raging Heroes are clearly making a significant income and targeting a decent enough chunk of users; but its still a lot smaller than GW. 

 

 

[sandlemad]

I'd second the note that as good as GW plastic has got, FW's resin offers lot of fine detail that you seriously just cannot currently achieve in plastic.  There may not be enough of a market for these kinds of infantry/cavalry-sized models but they were good designs and stunning stuff technically. GW proper is still miles off replicating this sort of thing in plastic.

Look at Lietpold the Black, look at the mail and the lace, it's insane.

Or compare the fur from the old and tragically lost ogre rhinox cavalry to that on the mournfangs:

[michu]

TBH @sandlemad current FW fur looks exactly like plastic GW fur. Have you seen SW Varagyr terminators?

[Lord marcus]

3 minutes ago, michu said:

TBH @sandlemad current FW fur looks exactly like plastic GW fur. Have you seen SW Varagyr terminators?

Those were a....special case... 

[sandlemad]

The Varagyr fur is rather worse than plastic GW fur to be honest and the heresy VIth legion range is a mixed bag... The Leman Russ fur cloak is much better, for example, you'd struggle to get that in plastic. I guess I'm talking about the potential of the material rather than any specific instance.

[Travis Baumann]

For all the comments on how FW have not done anything for AoS I strangely can find about $5000 worth of stuff I would like to own on their website.

Yes, I know... technically for old Fantasy Battle but damn, Tamurkhan and his entire horde look killer (love the Nergal Battle Toads bigtime), the entire range of Hashut followers are awesome (those flame things would be so cool if expanded on in AoS), and all of their monsters are amazing.   The Troggoth Hag seems a really important model for anyone running straight Troggs as it gives them some spell casting...

I have said it before but I will say it again... if that Merwyrm was properly usable with Idoneth it would be in my checkout cart in the time it takes me to click a mouse button.

This stuff should have found its way into the Battle Tomes long ago.  I know Vince was speculating that the entire FW might be re-incorporated into GW proper or who knows?  Whatever they do, I hope that it brings a good integration of the kits with the rules or they are just fancy fun painting exercises for display pieces and it would seem that 99% of us on here are in agreement we would like these things to be usable and in such a way that they actually see the table top.

[Overread]

Yeah FW is odd in that GW or FW or something doesn't want to make money. Why are Warpfire dragons not appearing in Warcry; why are skaven armies not being shown with a dozen wolf rats or a massive lord on a muted monster beast; why are chaos not showing off those exalted keepers. Heck why do all the exalted keepers not have a command ability?! 

GW could make a lot more from FW and FW could get a lot more attention if it were mentioned in community pages far more often than it is. Even subtle things ilke fielding more of the models in streamed battles. 

[Televiper11]

52 minutes ago, Travis Baumann said:

For all the comments on how FW have not done anything for AoS I strangely can find about $5000 worth of stuff I would like to own on their website.

Yes, I know... technically for old Fantasy Battle but damn, Tamurkhan and his entire horde look killer (love the Nergal Battle Toads bigtime), the entire range of Hashut followers are awesome (those flame things would be so cool if expanded on in AoS), and all of their monsters are amazing.   The Troggoth Hag seems a really important model for anyone running straight Troggs as it gives them some spell casting...

I have said it before but I will say it again... if that Merwyrm was properly usable with Idoneth it would be in my checkout cart in the time it takes me to click a mouse button.

This stuff should have found its way into the Battle Tomes long ago.  I know Vince was speculating that the entire FW might be re-incorporated into GW proper or who knows?  Whatever they do, I hope that it brings a good integration of the kits with the rules or they are just fancy fun painting exercises for display pieces and it would seem that 99% of us on here are in agreement we would like these things to be usable and in such a way that they actually see the table top.

Amen! The Hashut army is my #1 army, currently quite playable. Hopefully they will keep them in line with the evolving meta (like giving them the same extra wound that Fyreslayers got). 

So much of FW's stuff is cool as hell and really ought to just be part of the game and not a fringe element.

[swarmofseals]

I suspect that there are a couple of reasons why GW doesn't push Forgeworld stuff more. Right now, I think FW exists as a relatively niche arm of GW mostly aimed at serious hobbyists while GW proper aims at the full spectrum of gamers and hobbyists. If I were GW, I would not want to push people who aren't serious hobbyists toward buying FW products for a couple of reasons:

1. Resin is much more difficult to work with and is (potentially) more dangerous. Less experienced and less serious hobbyists would likely hate feeling "forced" to use FW products if they were pushed harder.
2. FW products are expensive, and pushing them with aggressive rules support could create a lot of negative sentiment. I've seen this more in 40k communities where FW stuff has been more competitive at times, but the "P2W" resentment can be very real. The last thing GW wants is to force a game first/hobby second player to bomb out of the community because they hate being "forced" to buy difficult, expensive FW kits because they are needed to be competitive. 
3. Cannibalization. People have limited budgets, so trying to encourage people who would be buying GW products to instead by FW products is really just shifting sales around. FW justifies itself if better if it fills a separate niche.
4. Profit margins. This one is speculation on my part, but it could easily be that the profit margins are lower on FW products. I know that seems crazy given how expensive FW is, but it very well could be the case for any number of reasons. If FW profit margins are lower, then GW actively prefers people to buy GW mainline products instead of FW, but FW is still a net benefit if it is capturing a segment of the community that wouldn't otherwise buy regular GW. 

[Overread]

Honestly FW isn't actually more expensive than regular GW these days.

 

Back when dragons and dreadnoughts were the largest models and tended to cap out at around the £35 mark the FW stuff did all look expensive. 
However today we've got a lot of core models that easily cost £30 or more just for basic troops. Meanwhile greater demons and the like are easily pushing up toward the £70 mark and beyond. Acharon himself is at the top being £100! Plus there's games like Adepticus Titanicus where the basic war engine to get started is £65 and that sold out at launch with a £150 starter set.

FW isn't much more for the vast majority of the stuff which isn't a titan and even then AoS is pretty safe as its only got the one Chaos Dragon. 

 

Now I accept that the price rise for overseas messes with this a lot, but in general the prices are still comparable to GW'central. Ergo the price disparity between FW and GW is FAR less than it ever was before. It's still not cheap, but the barrier is nowhere near like it was. Plus online ordering is very commonplace now, its not ilke the old days where you have to call in and wait 2 weeks for delivery (at least for the UK I'm aware overseas will take longer). 

If anything FW should be selling REALLY well at least in the UK market. The disparity of price is less; the general clubs accept FW far more than they ever have in general; the online ordering is really not the barrier it once was. 

 

With the right marketing FW should be making a serious profit. 

 

Also I feel like this thread should get highlighted - if we want FW to make more then by heck lets show them what we are willing to actually buy! 

 

[PlasticCraic]

If you were GW, what would you push?

Material (A) where you are a clear market leader.  Huge up-front costs, and low marginal costs of production, which further favours the market leader through economies of scale.  Very difficult to pirate.

Material (B) where many competitors can produce at the same or higher standard.  Much lower up-front costs to deter competitors.  Piracy is rife.

Hopefully FW keeps going long into the future, but in my opinion the long term future is more investment in plastic.  Partly because it's where GW have a strategic advantage, and partly because Chinacast. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

My hope for FW:

coming back into the fold with GW stores

becoming the branch that specializes in BITS packs. Whether it’s for SM chapters or special weapons, heads, etc for AoS

 

[zilberfrid]

57 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

My hope for FW:

coming back into the fold with GW stores

becoming the branch that specializes in BITS packs. Whether it’s for SM chapters or special weapons, heads, etc for AoS

 

Realm specific conversion kits...

[Eldarain]

15 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Realm specific conversion kits...

This would be amazing and go so far in helping integrate the lore into the game experience.