The Rumour Thread

[Chikout]

30 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Rally seems the most powerful by far, counter charge is fun though, does this mean no more unleash hell?

Why do you think this. You're healing an average of 3 health and a maximum of 6. That's weaker than the recent faq change. 

[Grimrock]

7 hours ago, Tonhel said:

No, you all think that because you bought mini's from GW, they own you lifelong support for those mini's. That's unrealistic.

Why is it always extremes like this? Nobody wants lifelong support for minis or feel like they're owed it. If you want an example, Chaos Marauders and Marauder Horsemen are about to be replaced with new darkoath models and when the news dropped were people getting upset and threatening boycott? No, they were ecstatic to see the new sculpts. Those models came out right around the time I started the hobby in 2002 and they've had a great run, almost nobody is sad to see them go. Sacrosanct models that came out less than 6 years ago? That's not a great run. That's not a good run. That's barely a warmup jog. 

The worst part is people totally understand that the stormcast line is bloated and in dire need of consolidation, but this problem is entirely GW's fault. They're the ones that have been diligently bloating the line with release after unnecessary release to the point where it's entirely unmanageable. So they've made a mistake and the route they've chosen to fix their mistake is to punish their customers. Not only that, but they show no signs of learning from their mistake because, while punishing their customers for simply buying their products, they're continuing to bloat out the line with yet more releases. This is what's really hammering in the nail in for most people. 

Edited April 10 by Grimrock

[Luperci]

2 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Why do you think this. You're healing an average of 3 health and a maximum of 6. That's weaker than the recent faq change. 

Bringing back up to 6 chaff or even just 1 big multiwound infantry model feels pretty strong idk, I'd have to play with it and see though 

[JackStreicher]

33 minutes ago, Cataphract said:

Did you see the ones in the article?

 

Yup, saw them 🤷🏼‍♂️ they’re interesting. However so far the edition reads like 3. Ed. but with 4 CP and some restrictions.

[Pizzaprez]

16 hours ago, Whitefang said:

Oh there is going to be plenty.

Something completely a challenge to logic. 

Sounds cool; the miniatures for AoS are consistently gorgeous (personally, I even like the Fyerslayers; AoS is my jam aesthetically)

Something logic-challenging sounds sick if it's a concept for new stuff!

8 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

Poor @Whitefang, he needs to be Silent to much time. My only expectation is that the next Lore campaign would Change things on the Realms foreverer. I am Hungry to know the news.

6 hours ago, GloomkingWortwazi said:

All I know is "Silent Lore Change Realms Hungry" means something to someone 😂

Silent People got a WD callout relatively recently, Tzeentch got a downgrade when their kits first went to plastic and I'd love them to CHANGE that, Realms/Hungry could circle back to Ghur's Incarnate narrative now that they had some time to rewrite it without Morghur. Also could be Ogors; I'd prefer the Gorger kit to be a harbinger of a range refresh instead of a Beastlord olive branch on the way out

7 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

I'd be shocked if GW chooses to put the Azgorh range into plastic. At the time, they sold so poorly that FW didn't re-press the moulds when they broke. 

These guys are based on the Infernal Guard; anti-slayers who are forced to lose their identity and be bound in their armor due to a perceived failure. Could be that they were a strategist who blew it, it could be that they worked for a sorcerer who fell out of favor. Also, part of their deal is the FW Chorfs had 'lil demon horns that the Infernal Guard had to get sheared off. 

I'm hoping they keep their devil horns, and a new foot troop shows 'em off. One of my complaints about the FW range was a lack of over-the-top moustaches, facial jewelry, and expressive face sculpts. 

7 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

I think big hats won't be so prominent in the army.

I'll cry if that's the case; I honestly think the Big Hats being silly + the faction's extremely grimdark lore and machinery was a reason they've had an online presence for so long despite often not being terribly playable. A common complaint about the FW range was how small the headgear was, and I (personally) didn't love how toned-down their machinery was when you compared it to the FW 40k Daemon Engines they were releasing for Vraks around the same time or the Hellcannon from a few years prior.

If the new stuff lacks hats bigger than the dwarfs wearing them, I'll likely try to source some of the older sculpts to scavenge hats from! A dude in a 10ft tall hat with the world's scariest cannon at his back is my mind's eye version of these guys,

 

[Acrozatarim]

Looks pretty good. Big question, for me, is if these 10 are the sum total of commands that will be in the game, or if there will be faction- or unit-specific ones as well.

[Peacaf]

22 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

love it, but also a bit concerning for the duration of a game. Have they ever stated that we're still playing 5 rounds in the articles so far?

or even just 1 (basically, if you have 1 you might as well go full auxiliary). Also: if having auxiliary units is so (negatively) impactful, it reinforces the mandatory inclusion of heroes -and the actual flexibility of list building (sure, you can do whatever you want, but you'll be at massive disadvantage for it.

The duration will depend more on the destructive power than having a small interaction or action on the opponent's turn.

[Luperci]

3 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Looks pretty good. Big question, for me, is if these 10 are the sum total of commands that will be in the game, or if there will be faction- or unit-specific ones as well.

Nagash doesn't have anything that uses command points so I'd be inclined to think that there aren't unit specific ones

[The Red King]

Why does charging cost twice as much as shooting when you already have a much shorter range and unreliable result?

[Aeryenn]

First impression is negative, especially as I'm an OBR player. Don't like this idea of resetting and restricting everything. I also enjoy that some heroes in 3.0 can generate points, while others can prevent their opponent from obtaining them. First games will tell whether or not this decisions were correct.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

Why does charging cost twice as much as shooting when you already have a much shorter range and unreliable result?

Counter charging is really strong, can totally swing combats and triggers relevant "on the charge" abilities like impact hits. Flying units can even charge over screens on reaction. 2 CP seems justified, IMO. At least relative to All Out Attack and the like.

As for shooting, if they forgot to remove mortals on hit again, I think that ability will eventually move to 2 CP, too. But maybe they actually cut that out of the game in their warscroll overhaul. Let's wait and see.

[Beliman]

25 minutes ago, Sception said:

A unit can still only use one command per phase

The secon "move" is at the End of Any Turn phase.

There shoudn't be any problem.

Btw, some of this commands have keywords and target other keywords (RUN, MOVE, ATTACK, etc...). Maybe Redeploy could be buffed by other Passive Abilities that target RUN or MOVE.

[Gaz Taylor]

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Why does charging cost twice as much as shooting when you already have a much shorter range and unreliable result?

Probably because Covering Fire can only target the closest visible unit and has -1 to hit rolls! Counter Charge is more powerful in my opinion as you can choose your target and doesn't have any negatives apart from if you are rubbish at rolling dice (like me!  ).

Overall, I quite like these changes. Adds a nice layer to the game and all seem useful. Can see Redeploy being used a lot to contest or capture last minute objectives!  

[Gaz Taylor]

15 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

Looks pretty good. Big question, for me, is if these 10 are the sum total of commands that will be in the game, or if there will be faction- or unit-specific ones as well.

I suspect there will be some faction ones. At a guess there probably will be say two faction ones, and then one for each battle formation to make it unique. (bit like 40k  )

[Koala]

Yeah. No. 

This is exactly NOT what i wanted to read: more generic command abilities. 

I am aware the more active parts of the community like them and am happy for everyone who does. Personal tastes and all.

 

But i find them a major PITA and only good for gotcha/npe moments. Double turn at least creates tention/chaos. 

I will of course try it after release but chances i am going to skip playing yet another edition just increased significantly.

 

[Boingrot Bouncer]

Like the new commands overall, but can not say that CP seem to be so much rarer as they claim in some factions in 4th edition compared to 3d.

 

Sure, if you run kroak or so you're probably getting more than 4 per round in 3d edition,  but if I look at my troll-list I would be getting 3-4 per round (depending if I go second or not) + maybe one from heroic action. Same with my normal SBGL-list. 

I also like the 2 points for counter charge. It's a big threat to be counter charged in your turn, so will be a good mind game there. If it was 1 CP it would be something you always did if you had any available unit within 12 inches of your opponent.

I know they have said that extra CP generated by heroes would be very rare, but have they said anything about heroes having built in abilities to use command abilities for free?

[Gaz Taylor]

1 minute ago, Koala said:

Yeah. No. 

This is exactly NOT what i wanted to read: more generic command abilities. 

I am aware the more active parts of the community like them and am happy for everyone who does. Personal tastes and all.

 

But i find them a major PITA and only good for gotcha/npe moments. Double turn at least creates tention/chaos. 

I will of course try it after release but chances i am going to skip playing yet another edition just increased significantly.

 

This might be where the modular rules come into effect. Don't like something, try playing games with out it. I know this will largely depend on your gaming group but it is an option now which should be cleaner to do. 

[Grimrock]

New commands look interesting, not a huge deviation but definitely a bunch of tweaks. I'm really liking the new Ability system, it looks like it's clearing up a lot of timing questions and making everything nice and neat. I could see it being too mechanical for some people, but personally that's a good thing. I'm picking up a bit of an anti combat bias in a number of the changes which is interesting.

Redeploy no longer has the restriction for being near an enemy unit that moved within 9", so the counterplay of stopping outside of 9" and hoping for the long charge is gone. Also means that a unit that finished a nearby combat can't just sit still and make an easy charge to the next unit. It's also useful against deep striking units.

The change to Forward to Victory needing to be spent before making the roll is a dramatic nerf to the command and combat armies in general. Now you'll have to pick that one single charge you absolutely have to make and spend the command point in advance. It's going to lead to a lot more failed charges and a lot of wasted CP when you make your one charge anyway. That tiny timing tweak will change this from one of the most commonly used commands to one of the least used ones. 

Magical Intervention could also be pretty crushing depending on what spells are out there. Any spell that manipulates movement could be absolutely devastating if used in your opponents turn. Normally you have to cast before moving meaning you're less likely to get in range, but if you can move in your turn and then cast the spell in your opponents turn you'll be able to ensure you can put the spell wherever you want it. Not only that but we don't know how unbinds work. It's possible you won't be able to unbind in your hero phase, so an enemy spell cast might be unblockable. Imagine your key hero just barely survives your opponents shooting phase only to be killed by an arcane bolt in your own hero phase making you lose your key command ability and unravelling your whole turn. Oof. 

Countercharge can be brutal as well, it'll be a lot harder to pick on weaker ranged units or lock them in combat if your opponent can just charge in their deathstar combat unit or super monster and kill you before you get to attack. 

All that together does seem like a pretty hard hit to any combat focused army. Of course that being said they're also getting a huge buff by having all combat ranges extended out to 3", so I'm hopeful it'll balance out in the end.

Edited April 10 by Grimrock

[Gaz Taylor]

9 minutes ago, Boingrot Bouncer said:

I know they have said that extra CP generated by heroes would be very rare, but have they said anything about heroes having built in abilities to use command abilities for free?

If (and that should be IF ), I've read the article correctly, there is no way to get extra CP. I imagine for Hero's they may get an aura ability or a "LEEROY JENKINS!!!!" ability but I don't think we will see anything about using command abilities. 

[The Red King]

34 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Counter charging is really strong, can totally swing combats and triggers relevant "on the charge" abilities like impact hits. Flying units can even charge over screens on reaction. 2 CP seems justified, IMO. At least relative to All Out Attack and the like.

As for shooting, if they forgot to remove mortals on hit again, I think that ability will eventually move to 2 CP, too. But maybe they actually cut that out of the game in their warscroll overhaul. Let's wait and see.

I don't think charging shouldn't cost 2 only that it should be the same as shooting.

 

31 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Probably because Covering Fire can only target the closest visible unit and has -1 to hit rolls! Counter Charge is more powerful in my opinion as you can choose your target and doesn't have any negatives apart from if you are rubbish at rolling dice (like me!  ).

Overall, I quite like these changes. Adds a nice layer to the game and all seem useful. Can see Redeploy being used a lot to contest or capture last minute objectives!  

"Gaz Taylor has quoted you. Oh ****** I finally said something too angry didn't I?" Lol

 

But yeah I agree it's strong. I just think they could have put the same limits on charging "closest target -1 inch" rather than double the cost.

Edited April 10 by The Red King

[Satyrical Sophist]

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I don't think charging shouldn't cost 2 only that it should be the same as shooting.

 

"Gaz Taylor has quoted you. Oh ****** I finally said something too angry didn't I?" LOL

 

But yeah I agree it's strong. I just think they could have put the same limits on charging "closest target -1 inch" rather than double the cost.

There are whole faction/sub factions where counter charging is a massive draw. The glottkin (whose ability is in movement admittedly) has a huge part of its cost in having a counter charge command. It’s a very very powerful ability. Unleash hell is sometimes very good, but this edition is limited reinforcement sizes of units and we actually haven’t seen any real shooting profiles yet.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I don't think charging shouldn't cost 2 only that it should be the same as shooting.

Having recently played a Cities army with counter shooting and counter charging abilities, if I have to choose I'll take the counter charge. Especially if I am shooting at -1 to hit.

If you like, swing over to the Cities discussion thread where I frequently post about counter-charge based shennenigans.

[Chikout]

24 minutes ago, Koala said:

Yeah. No. 

This is exactly NOT what i wanted to read: more generic command abilities. 

I am aware the more active parts of the community like them and am happy for everyone who does. Personal tastes and all.

 

But i find them a major PITA and only good for gotcha/npe moments. Double turn at least creates tention/chaos. 

I will of course try it after release but chances i am going to skip playing yet another edition just increased significantly.

 

I admit I'm not a regular player but how are generic command abilities gotcha or npe?  They're abilities that are in the core rules which anyone can use and everyone will know about. 

 

 

 

[Vagard]

10 minutes ago, The Red King said:

I don't think charging shouldn't cost 2 only that it should be the same as shooting.

Charging a unit during your opponent's turn without any disadvantage is way more impactful than shooting with a -1 to hit the closest unit at the end of his shooting phase

Edited April 10 by Vagard

[ScionOfOssia]

Idoneth are salivating looking at Counter-Charge. Now they can activate Wave Riders even if they don’t go first.