The Rumour Thread

[Jagged Red Lines]

6 minutes ago, Doko said:

Yes fyreslayers now after 3 buffs in points and one edition that is made 100% every rule for fyreslayers(dont shoot heroes and spam heroes) are good.

But for 8!!! Months after the book fyreslayers went from 52% win rate before of th book to 28% win rate after the book.

So yes fyreslayer book was and now continue being the worst book of this edition. Next season when our heroes come back to be deleted turn 1 we gonna come back to our old 30 win rate

The 'deathball' vulkite list that's being doing well recently is definitely going to be affected by the rally nerf, and the loss of galletian champions.

But the 'brawler lofnir' and 'control lofnir' lists will still likely be in the fat middle for some time, and will likely survive the GHB change. 

I think fyreslayers is a fantastic and deep book, especially for having so few warscrolls. But then, I didn't play the last second edition battletome. 

[Beliman]

6 minutes ago, Doko said:

So yes fyreslayer book was and now continue being the worst book of this edition. Next season when our heroes come back to be deleted turn 1 we gonna come back to our old 30 win rate

Like it or not, the game is build around this Battlescrolls, and you need to understand them before throwing an argument about how good a book will be. And that can change every 6 months (or less).

Until we know more about Summer GHB, we can't say that Fyreslayers are going to be bad, maybe we will see the Galletian Champions as part of a new battalion or better, part of Core Rules!

And remember, to win games you need to score points, and good Battle Tactics and Grand Strategies are more important that quality profiles.

[Clan's Cynic]

Battlesmiths will just swap from Rally'ing Vulkites and go back to using it on Hearthguard. It kind of balances out that everybody else also got hit by the Rally nerf.

[Ganigumo]

5 minutes ago, Doko said:

Yes fyreslayers now after 3 buffs in points and one edition that is made 100% every rule for fyreslayers(dont shoot heroes and spam heroes) are good.

But for 8!!! Months after the book fyreslayers went from 52% win rate before of th book to 28% win rate after the book.

So yes fyreslayer book was and now continue being the worst book of this edition. Next season when our heroes come back to be deleted turn 1 we gonna come back to our old 30 win rate

Fyreslayers were never that low, not even gitz got that low. Fyreslayers were 48% winrate before the book, 41% after the book with OBR, Slaanesh, Gitz and Kruleboyz sitting below them. They were 48% during the last ghb (pretty safely in the middle), where Bounty Hunters were a huge threat to them, and now they're 50% (all based on THWG's stats). 

Kruleboyz always have been, and continue to be, the worst book of the edition, and the stats back it up.

[Azamar]

Worst  of the edition? Fyreslayers aren’t even the worst army of my own personal collection. They’re in pretty good shape at the moment. 

[Kitsumy]

well like i said. krule are only a faction of a whole book. i know some guys hate soups, but... the tome is called bug wagh and it is above average..... if someone wanna play only a fraction of a book with only 1 specific pasive and hope to be as good as others book using his best build.. keep dreaming.

 

idoneth book IS the worst one by far, droping them from above average with his 1.0 book to worst 3.0 book in every datashet, maybe among top 3 worst( like i said i dont count every orc faction like differents books). 

 

and still waitting the answer to the reason slaves got buffed despite having higher winrate, playrate,numbers of 5/0s, number on ket, number of tomes heck being better in everything haha but idoneth got forgotten like always

[Ragest]

What a weird battlescroll.

They said in videos that were looking at the mechanics of helon and tzeentch, and then decided to nerf points and let the same mechanics. In the past months said aswell that Arcane tome was not a problem because it was not affecting winrates, then the artifact is destroyed when any of the top contenders (Tzeentch, Lumineth, Gloomspite, BoC) were using it, buffed Slaves having more winrate than Idk that is one of the worst wooks of the edition based on winrate, then nerfed Nighthaunt because reasons and capped rally at a random number that means almost nothing.

[Kitsumy]

8 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Idk that is one of the worst wooks of the edition based on winrate, 

based on playrate is even worst, having less than 2%last time i saw them( same as seraphons).

based on 5/0s is the thire worst. having a whole 1 5/0 on this general, only better than giants( that cant win on galletians champs) and seraphons that were uterly destroyed on last 2 massives points nerfs.

 

so on what would u base them

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

I think fyreslayers is a fantastic and deep book, especially for having so few warscrolls. But then, I didn't play the last second edition battletome. 

Second edition was literally go Hearthguard or go home.

Now no matter where the fiery winds of Ur-gold blow they aren’t dependent on one playstyle so even if next seasons goes against them they can change things up between Hearthguard death balls, Vulkite banner swarms, hero holdouts, Lava Priest demagogues and Magmadroth mayhem spam.

Between that and their Ur-gold Rune power ups their tool box has been noticeably expanded to roll with the punches.

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

They seems really fun to play with!

A lot of Cps and that means a lot of combos! From going full shields to ressurect people or just smash people with -4 rend Gothizzar!

Definitely excited to try them out! Just like with the Kharadron all those command options are looking very spicy for armies focused on discipline and micro-manage tricks.

Also goes with their mercantile kinship with the multiple times the two factions have made treaties with eachother since despite being from opposing Alliances they both value orderly conduct and commodities. 📈

[DinoJon]

Did I accidently go to the Fyreslayer General thread? 

After finishing reading the OBR and SBGL leaks, I like them and it seems to reinforce the flavor of the armies. 

It is wild to see the disparity between how these new tomes came out to other earlier tomes. 

I really hope the end of edition narrative really pushes some forgotten tomes up and maybe new models. I'm looking at you my Skaven frenemies. 

[Goatforce]

Reading the SBGL leaks... Why do they keep doing this to Lore of Vampires?? I had hoped Amathystine Pinions would be applicable to any unit (not just caster).... but no they just removed it! At least the spells that survived have been improved I guess. Deathmages looks very good.

[TechnoVampire]

1 hour ago, Goatforce said:

Reading the SBGL leaks... Why do they keep doing this to Lore of Vampires?? I had hoped Amathystine Pinions would be applicable to any unit (not just caster).... but no they just removed it! At least the spells that survived have been improved I guess. Deathmages looks very good.

Question is who’s going to cast them now? Mannfred took possibly the biggest nerf in the book, and he was previously the most versatile deathmages caster. His role as a utility/ buff piece + debuff caster has been seriously reduced and his points don’t seem worth it any more. 

[Lord Veshnakar]

I’ll be honest after those leaks I can almost safely say that the SBGL, OBR, Gloomspite, KO, Khorne and Hedonite books feel like they are for a different game, not OP per-say, but just SO much in the toolbox of each army. All balanced great against one another but against some of the earlier tomes from 3rd edition it’s rough! 

I am really curious RE the new flesh eaters though coming soon. And I have a feeling I am going to envy the range refresh they get. (Just one new Fyreslayer unit please GW 😫). 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Lord Veshnakar

[The Red King]

I cant believe they thought a minor points drop on Bestigor was worth a nerf to a unit that is generally considered to be not worth it.

Cockatrice nerf was inevitable and I'm just glad they did it before they started getting allied into every other chaos army. 

Bullgor do pretty good damage so I'm mostly neutral about that change. Though I'd contend many people considered the points too high for the beasts so I'm a bit surprised to see more hikes for an army that's ostensibly already in the sweet spot for win rate.

Edited April 7, 2023 by The Red King

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

2 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

I’ll be honest after those leaks I can almost safely say that the SBGL, OBR, Gloomspite, KO, Khorne and Hedonite books feel like they are for a different game, not OP per-say, but just SO much in the toolbox of each army. All balanced great against one another but against some of the earlier tomes from 3rd edition it’s rough! 

I am really curious RE the new flesh eaters though coming soon. And I have a feeling I am going to envy the range refresh they get. (Just one new Fyreslayer unit please GW 😫). 

I was just talking about something similar in the Sylvaneth discord. Starting around the Slaves to Darkness tome, it feels like the tome writers suddenly got a whole suite of new design options, especially in regards to unique Heroic Actions. I wonder if the date of the 3.0 rules being "locked in" lines up with the date work got started in earnest with the earliest of those tomes?

No proof that this is how it happened, mind - just some wild speculation.

[RileyArlic]

The stuff that OBR and SBGL are getting now is making me even more excited for Seraphon.

Really hoping for some really fun, flavorful rules!

[Beliman]

8 hours ago, Kitsumy said:

well like i said. krule are only a faction of a whole book. i know some guys hate soups, but... the tome is called bug wagh and it is above average..... if someone wanna play only a fraction of a book with only 1 specific pasive and hope to be as good as others book using his best build.. keep dreaming

Imo, all battletomes have 1 faction, but Big Waaagh have 3 factions and 1 "alternative list" that reminds me of Lethis, Legion of the first prince and any other campaign factions to play with miniatures from multiple factions.

In other words, 3 underdeveloped factions and 1 campaign/white dwarf faction in the same book.

Btw, I'm not against alternative lists, but they should be a bonus for the book or another set of battletraits for the main faction (like SCE has).

Edited April 7, 2023 by Beliman

[Someravella]

Orruk Warclans also suffer from being one of the two first armies of the edition, which means no particular heroic actions or monstruous rampages.

[Gitzdee]

Please also remember that between the Orruk Warclans factions u cant even legally use models from the other factions. Its more like 3 unique armies in 1 tome with a 4th alliance option and lose a bunch of synergy.

(Although not a great tome i also dont its that bad, its still very much playable imho)

Edit: @KingBrodd yes D&D was a great movie. Glad they stepped away from some of the classic fantasy cliches.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Gitzdee

[dmorley21]

One thing of note, though GW doesn’t list authors of battletomes, is the rules team totally changed over starting with the Nurgle book. We have no idea what the new team was/was not allowed to do in the beginning, and they may have felt more comfortable using more tools as time went on. 

I know the win rates aren’t necessarily there, but I feel like my two armies (Nighthaunt and Sylvaneth) can handle most anything from the newer books. I think this edition has been a vast improvement compared to the power creep that was seen with 2nd edition battletomes.

[Clan's Cynic]

8 hours ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

I was just talking about something similar in the Sylvaneth discord. Starting around the Slaves to Darkness tome, it feels like the tome writers suddenly got a whole suite of new design options, especially in regards to unique Heroic Actions. I wonder if the date of the 3.0 rules being "locked in" lines up with the date work got started in earnest with the earliest of those tomes?

No proof that this is how it happened, mind - just some wild speculation.

We know from the Votann mess that they write books based on what the meta was around six months prior to publication - they were pretty open that Votann were so busted because they were written with Tyranid domination in mind, which had since been nerfed before the codex actually released (and by then it was too late).

[EntMan]

3 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Votann were so busted because they were written with Tyranid domination in mind

Love the idea of the Squats coming back to save the galaxy from the Nids! Especially considering the (apocryphal?) lore around their initial squatting.

Maybe this is what 10th narrative is heading towards. (I know it's in no way likely, but I'd love it)

[Chikout]

33 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

We know from the Votann mess that they write books based on what the meta was around six months prior to publication - they were pretty open that Votann were so busted because they were written with Tyranid domination in mind, which had since been nerfed before the codex actually released (and by then it was too late).

No they don't. Books are usually completed and sent to the printers a full year before publication. This is what gw staff have said in numerous interviews.  Look at the slaves book. It was leaked six months before release and the printing process usually takes at least 6 months. Gw are probably putting the finishing touches to the 4th edition rules about now. 

[MitGas]

I disagree with the philosophy behind the Tzeentch changes but perhaps I see it wrong… can we stop overcosting heroes so that the problematic OP units won‘t get changed? I know, horrors bring in the cash for GW but Tzeentch nerfs are way more miss than hit to me as very specific lists make Tzeentch strong, not the overall roster. If you field Tzaangors and Kairics, you‘re not a top tier army for example. I‘d gladly take an weaker army if it meant that more units are usable instead of feeling like you field total trash just to avoid using broken stuff that isn‘t fun for the people you play against. 

I think the game overall would really benefit if armies were balanced around say 1250-1500 points. Yes, Tzeentch is strong at 2k but at 1k it‘s more and more frustrating and we often play smaller games (I know, not the designer‘s intent but maybe it should be to make for a more balanced game).

Not sure this ranking reflects the state of the game as much as THWG‘s one anyways…

[CommissarRotke]

On 4/4/2023 at 11:59 PM, Neverchosen said:

I was planning on having each story include an introduction and postscript by Sigmarite priests denouncing the books as heretical, and slowly reveal more about the author as a student of the arcane akin to Faust. Just to try and introduce a little more narrative structure for readers. But the overall goal being to add a little more mysticism back into the setting by showing more of a worms eye view of the gods. 

But I think your idea is much more interesting and could be used to tell broader stories that would expand the scope of AOS in fantastic and interesting ways. I could almost see my idea being subsumed into this greater project. 

it would be interesting to see the Azyrite/Sigmarite scholars argue about whether the text is heretical 👀 there's so many different ways that Order factions worship to begin with that I would hope to see it reflected as a refutation of the "heresy" bit. I love both of these book ideas so much.