The Rumour Thread

[RyantheFett]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

With 40k 10e on the way and the new models slowly being released, I have a question I'd really love an answer to. 

I apologise if this sounds belittling, it's not my intention I am just genuinely curious, but what do Space Marine fans see in new models? 

If someone likes Space Marines, that is 100% fine - everyone has different tastes and enjoys things for different reasons - but my question is specifically towards the Adeptus Astartes fans because Space Marines by design look very similar, with only slight variations in armour and weapons to distinguish them. 

I'm not a huge fan of a lot of armies; I don't much reckon anything to Ratmen, but when (if) Skaven get an update I can see a significant design difference between their models, so for those who do like them I understand the excitement at the prospect of new Skaven. New Space Marines on the other hand often look like talented conversions - small edits to a very similar base. 

Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking Space Marines, but I'd be very grateful for someone who does like them to explain what they see in new models? What makes them exciting for you?

To keep this at least tangentally related to AoS, one of the things I love about this system is that even if I don't like any of the armies scheduled to come out, whatever is produced will be novel, and even if the design doesn't gel with me, it makes sense why those who do like the army will be excited. It's really nice to see people get excited about all of the different possibilities for their factions. 

As a player who got into Sigmar first then 40k the contrast between the two games is pretty extreme. I got my little Xeno (Tau) faction and just accept whatever scraps I get. The warnings and jokes you see on the internet are true!!!

Not sure how a person who collects Space Marines could handle getting a new model almost every other announcement. Or how they keep selling so well while so many factions across both have have little to nothing?

I know AoS has it issues, but it feels a lot better overall with all factions getting some love.

Edited April 3, 2023 by RyantheFett

[CommissarRotke]

30 minutes ago, rattila said:

I guess its just to have the occasion to make different armies without having two times the same mini. I mean, the lore have a huge impact on that. A blood angel isnt a space wolve, where a celestial vindicator and a hammer of sigmar are both stormcast. The difference of depth is huuuge.

but you're not mixing Blood Angels with Space Wolves, so unless your Chapter has an entire model range out wouldn't you still have instances of the same minis in order to get to 2k? Like if you want more than 5 Sanguinary Guard you're going to have duplicates.

Lore-wise Celestial Vindicators are not the same as Hammers of Sigmar, so I'm not sure about this part either. Blood Angels and Space Wolves are "both Space Marines" they're just different Chapters that happened to get specialized kits.

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, rattila said:

The difference of depth is huuuge. You can have a space marine army with mostly guns, another with mostly cc, another with mind bullets… and feel like having 3 différent armies, where if you do the same with the stormcast it will not feel the same, imo.

+1 to this

I only collect Votanns, but I'm always looking for a Space Marine army. The main thing to blame is their background (books, campaings, background, lore, charismatic characters, unique traits, etc...). Horus Heresy doens't help and Primarchs are a big hook that GW can always use in 40k (hi Lion!).

Imagine if SCE had more focused campaigns that explore their background and their behaviour (I'm enjoying reading The Badab Wars), unique units for each Stormhost, more charismatic and playable characters from diferent hosts (coff coff Hamilcar... where the F are you?) and some background around their story and top dudes (we should already know some Lord-Commanders names and the legend behind them).... it would be horrible for all other armies that are still waiting, but you get the point.

31 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

Lore-wise Celestial Vindicators are not the same as Hammers of Sigmar, so I'm not sure about this part either. Blood Angels and Space Wolves are "both Space Marines" they're just different Chapters that happened to get specialized kits.

I'm not a SCE expert, but it's dificult to compare both of them:

Space Wolfs have unique units/Heroes, a unique mechanic to improve their leaders called "Sagas" (no other Space Marines chapter has), unique weapons/artifacts/loadouts (imagine 2.0 but instead of one artifact/traits, over 6+ relics and traits, a Spell lore, and a set of "Frost Weapons" and some hero upgrades for Horus Heresy), unique Lord-Commander character (and let's be honest, they have their own "god" with Leman Russ, but not playable) and unique Command Abilities (stratagems).

Celestial Vindicators have explosive 6s to hit. Imho, doesn't feel unique enough and from what I read in the Lexicanum, they don't have a lot going on.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Beliman

[JerekKruger]

46 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

Lore-wise Celestial Vindicators are not the same as Hammers of Sigmar, so I'm not sure about this part either. Blood Angels and Space Wolves are "both Space Marines" they're just different Chapters that happened to get specialized kits.

I think it's a case of scale. The amount of lore written about either one of Space Wolves or Blood Angels over the years is probably more than all the lie with about AoS. If you've grown up with this stuff, like I have*, it's hard not to get excited about Space Marine release, as each new one gives me a chance to create some new ideas that's been knocking around in my head for years, or creates new ones.

*I was eleven when Angels of Death was released, and I just have read and reread it dozens of times.

Edit: to be clear, not every new space marine release excites me. That he lieutenant? Pass. The recent Desolation Squad? Pass.

Edited April 3, 2023 by JerekKruger

[RyantheFett]

53 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

I think it's a case of scale. The amount of lore written about either one of Space Wolves or Blood Angels over the years is probably more than all the lie with about AoS. If you've grown up with this stuff, like I have*, it's hard not to get excited about Space Marine release, as each new one gives me a chance to create some new ideas that's been knocking around in my head for years, or creates new ones.

*I was eleven when Angels of Death was released, and I just have read and reread it dozens of times.

Edit: to be clear, not every new space marine release excites me. That he lieutenant? Pass. The recent Desolation Squad? Pass.

How dare you good sir!!!! How could you not want to buy a T-shirt cannon with a belt feeder going......... somewhere!?!?!?!?

 

Make me appreciate how good all the other recent releases we got in Sigmar look (those Stormcast leaks look amazing!!!)................ Of course it would be nice to have a large enough range to just say no to a few units.....

[Neverchosen]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

With 40k 10e on the way and the new models slowly being released, I have a question I'd really love an answer to. 

I apologise if this sounds belittling, it's not my intention I am just genuinely curious, but what do Space Marine fans see in new models? 

If someone likes Space Marines, that is 100% fine - everyone has different tastes and enjoys things for different reasons - but my question is specifically towards the Adeptus Astartes fans because Space Marines by design look very similar, with only slight variations in armour and weapons to distinguish them. 

I'm not a huge fan of a lot of armies; I don't much reckon anything to Ratmen, but when (if) Skaven get an update I can see a significant design difference between their models, so for those who do like them I understand the excitement at the prospect of new Skaven. New Space Marines on the other hand often look like talented conversions - small edits to a very similar base. 

Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking Space Marines, but I'd be very grateful for someone who does like them to explain what they see in new models? What makes them exciting for you?

To keep this at least tangentally related to AoS, one of the things I love about this system is that even if I don't like any of the armies scheduled to come out, whatever is produced will be novel, and even if the design doesn't gel with me, it makes sense why those who do like the army will be excited. It's really nice to see people get excited about all of the different possibilities for their factions. 

It is funny, I am vocally not a big fan of Space Marines. But between tenth on the horizon and starting a small Necron Force I decided to get some Space Marines for pick up games and just to build and paint. My opinion on them has only shifted insofar as I can say the Primaris proportions are much more aesthetically pleasing than Space Marines of my childhood. Overall they still feel like the same thing repeated into an entire army with little distinction, it is as my earlier post indicated they are simply always wearing a new hat. I don't understand how there are like 40 variants of the same theme, and yet CSM seem to fill the same roles with like half the models despite Chaos having unending possibilities with mutations and demonic possessions at their disposal. 

I have seen 40k fans level this charge at SCE and I get it to a small degree as their are some recurring elements and themes upon release particularly with their infantry. But the different cavalry, monsters and weapon types are much more visually distinctive. I know people can tell the difference between a Bolter, Lasgun, Flammer, Plasma pistol and 30 other fictional forms of gun at a glance, but to me they are signifiers without a referent. Whereas a Spear, Hammer, bow, and Sword I can immediately see the difference between.  I suppose you could argue that the Vehicles of the space marines add variety but they are almost all very boring boxes with guns. As opposed to Dragons, Chariots, Angels, Gryphons, and an ugly Goat Pegasus that was hit in the face with a frying pan... aka the best one!
 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Neverchosen

[Kaleb Daark]

12 hours ago, petitionercity said:

Yeah, I am not commenting on the AoS books; you made a cheap dig at new heresy, which was both misinformed and misinforming. So I corrected you

To repeat, the heresy team is led by Andy Hoare, who I'm sure you know (since you worship the black books) co wrote Books 2 and 3, and wrote among others IA 13 and IA 2 second edition (as well as brilliant old 40k things like codex witch Hunters and codex kroot from chapter approved), and was a lead writer on Rogue Trader by FFG (alongside Owen Barnes, a lead on dark heresy, who he brought into specialist games). He was one of the old hands of FW in the "Bligh era", in that he is perhaps unfairly eclipsed (alongside French) by Bligh.

Hoare's portfolio expanded to include managing heresy in 2019, following the success of SG, which likely was the best decision for the property given his experience in the first edition, his closeness to other key people in heresy (eg John French) and other deep dive pieces of GW IP. Plastic heresy is presumably his baby, alongside Mark Bedford as the head mini designer for FW, and we are lucky they are running it.

If you want to see what the heresy team (ie the specialist games team) have done, check out Titanicus's campaign books (for example the wonder Crucible of Iron one), or the lore in the necromunda books I mentioned above.

No I didn’t.

But you believe what you want.

 I’m very hopeful for the new heresy and I’m hoping that its nothing like the aos books.

thats it.  No point having a pop until it lands.

Im glad we got that sorted.

[EccentricCircle]

I agree that destruction is being neglected, and so are dwarves. But the thing is... I well remember the dark days when Death was just as neglected...

Heck there was a time when we'd just got FS ans KO and it was the elves who feared they were never getting anything new. Scroll a few thousand pages back in this very thread if you don't believe me! The salt flowed, but the time came and they got their models. Elves weren't abandoned, slaanesh wasn't squatted, death had its day. So i fervently believe that destruction time will come. It might just take a decade...

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

It is funny, I am vocally not a big fan of Space Marines. But between tenth on the horizon and starting a small Necron Force I decided to get some Space Marines for pick up games and just to build and paint. My opinion on them has only shifted insofar as I can say the Primaris proportions are much more aesthetically pleasing than Space Marines of my childhood. Overall they still feel like the same thing repeated into an entire army with little distinction, it is as my earlier post indicated they are simply always wearing a new hat. I don't understand how their are like 40 variants of the same theme and yet CSM seem to fill the same roles with like half the models and unending possibilities with mutations and demonic possessions at their disposal. 

I have seen 40k fans level this charge at SCE and I get it to a small degree as their are some recurring elements and themes upon release. But the different cavalry, monsters and weapon types are much more visually distinctive. I know people can tell the difference between a Bolter, Lasgun, Flammer, Plasma pistol and 30 other fictional forms of gun at a glance, but to me they are signifiers without a referent. Whereas a Spear, Hammer, bow, and Sword I can immediately see the difference between.  I suppose you could argue that the Vehicles of the space marines add variety but they are almost all very boring boxes with guns. As opposed to Dragons, Chariots, Angels, Gryphons, and an ugly Goat Pegasus that was hit in the face with a frying pan... aka the best one!
 

Yeah, I don't like the look of old Stormcast, but it's better than Space Marines. I think the lot of them can fit in some 5 kits (variety wise), then a few boxes for their vehicles.

Edited April 3, 2023 by zilberfrid

[Kaleb Daark]

9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Price list stolen off Dakka. Wight King on Steed isn't as wallet-busting as I feared.

Oofff!

wow!  You’re not kidding.

I can see me kitbashing one from an old chaos knight or original blood knight mount- I’m sure I got a loose one somewhere without a rider.

[Overread]

See I just gave in and got one of the last Getting started sets off Wayland. I figure with the Wightking and Black Knights I might as well get some free Skeletons even if I think the kit is a bit old and needs an update. I was almost tempted to get 2 sets, but I needed spraypaint instead. 

[Overread]

3 hours ago, Enoby said:

With 40k 10e on the way and the new models slowly being released, I have a question I'd really love an answer to. 

I apologise if this sounds belittling, it's not my intention I am just genuinely curious, but what do Space Marine fans see in new models? 

If someone likes Space Marines, that is 100% fine - everyone has different tastes and enjoys things for different reasons - but my question is specifically towards the Adeptus Astartes fans because Space Marines by design look very similar, with only slight variations in armour and weapons to distinguish them. 

 

I think one difference is that most armies (and skaven are a great example) often have niches within them which can be down different design pathways within the same design ethos. So all Skaven look like Skaven, but within that you've got your sewn together beasts; your crazy science; assassins; clans etc...

 

Space Marines have the same, they just separated out and their niches became whole armies with their own minor niches within them. 

This can mean that a lot of marine models end up looking rather similar; but then again those who aren't fans of a design style of another army can say the same about many others. I think its also an issue in that Marines are often one of the first get expanded so they've already got a lot of diversity and toys. This means that adding new things is often a case of adding another Lieutenant instead of a totally new themed leader; because the army has buckets of them already. 

 

Personally Marines are in the "I love this as a concept, lore, art, animation, video game - I just don't really want the models. 

There's nothing wrong with them and there are some I'd love to get, but as an army they just don't work for me and I honestly could not put my finger on why. Perhaps its just that other armies interest me way more and catch my attention. 

[CommissarRotke]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm not a SCE expert, but it's dificult to compare both of them:

that's also the other problem yeah: nothing in AOS is going to come close to the written lore of 40k... and I think most of us would agree for the sake of faction balance and money it's probably better Stormcast aren't getting separate books for their Stormhosts and dominating the game completely. I'm glad we can't fully compare them.

2 hours ago, JerekKruger said:

I think it's a case of scale. The amount of lore written about either one of Space Wolves or Blood Angels over the years is probably more than all the lie with about AoS. If you've grown up with this stuff, like I have*, it's hard not to get excited about Space Marine release, as each new one gives me a chance to create some new ideas that's been knocking around in my head for years, or creates new ones.

100% yeah. though for me I'm fine not getting excited because I always thought Tau and Eldar looked cooler overall the redone proportions of Primaris are more appealing for sure, but they don't tweak any real nostalgia for my teenaged 40k fan.

[TechnoVampire]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:13 AM, Black_Templar_Lad said:

The 'White Scar' exercise got me. Belter that.

You must be Scottish? We are the only people I know that say ‘belter’ 😂

Edited April 3, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Hollow]

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

unique units for each Stormhost

 

Was that not the initial intention with the different Stormhost Shield options? They were discontinued because they didn't sell. 

[Beliman]

9 hours ago, Hollow said:

Was that not the initial intention with the different Stormhost Shield options? They were discontinued because they didn't sell. 

Yeah, completely agree. And I think that GW started the house from the roof. Without knowing anything about SCE: starter box, a lot of new kits, 5 campaign books, 1 battletome+1 supplement, over 8 black library books,...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I needed a bit more build-up and a more serious game than "if your have a moustache, your unit has +1 to hit" to be emotionally attached to SCE. Their main hook was that they were a ripoff space marines without all the cool stuff.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Beliman

[JackStreicher]

5 hours ago, Hollow said:

 

Was that not the initial intention with the different Stormhost Shield options? They were discontinued because they didn't sell. 

Maybe the price was a little absurd *cough*
I liked the upgrade sets but they‘d have had to tripple the contents in order for me to spend that amount of money.

[Jagged Red Lines]

I think this is really the reason why stormcast perhaps don't work as a poster child for AoS in the same way as space marines do for 40k.

Space marines are a blank canvass. You can make them be crusaders, vikings, arthurian knights, mongols, vampires or Romans. I even saw some amazing Native American space marines on FB the other day.

Stormcast by contrast are not as thematically varied. They don't offer something to everyone in the same way as space marines do.

I'd like to see AoS go the same way as WFB in having different armies in the starter box. Maybe we're heading that way with 4th - with perhaps cities becoming the poster faction for the next edition.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jagged Red Lines

[Goatforce]

2 hours ago, Jagged Red Lines said:

I think this is really the reason why stormcast perhaps don't work as a poster child for AoS in the same way as space marines do for 40k.

Space marines are a blank canvass. You can make them be crusaders, vikings, arthurian knights, mongols, vampires or Romans. I even saw some amazing Native American space marines on FB the other day.

Stormcast by contrast are not as thematically varied. They don't offer something to everyone in the same way as space marines do.

I'd like to see AoS go the same way as WFB in having different armies in the starter box. Maybe we're heading that way with 4th - with perhaps cities becoming the poster faction for the next edition.

Hopefully we will see GW move away from SCE in every starter, but personally doubt it at least for 4th. For a start Cities will have fairly recently been released if they take over, so not sure they will shove them in a Starter less than a year later - but I admit it is not impossible after the Lumineth's 1st and 2nd waves.

 

Personally the dream for 4th edition's starter would be Malarion vs Skaven for me, but 1 completely new army and 1 reworked one seems a lot to hope for, and it depends on the question of what GW is going to do with the theming of the edition. That box won't happen if we cycle to Order vs Order, which I would guess would mean SCE vs Malarion - think this is the most likely outcome, though Malarion vs Lumineth is another possibility and could see Tyrion added as well.

 

If we get Order vs Order for 4th, and GW do the right thing and decouple SCE from being in every starter (not necessarily for 4th though), then I could see a shift to Cities being the poster boys from 5th edition, with them in the Order vs Chaos box I assume will be the theme there in that case.

[KingKull]

Any chance of lizard box going on preorder next Monday?

[Goatforce]

4 minutes ago, KingKull said:

Any chance of lizard box going on preorder next Monday?

I doubt it as we just had the Death books announced for pre-order, maybe the week after though, idk

[Still-young]

10 minutes ago, KingKull said:

Any chance of lizard box going on preorder next Monday?

Zero chance of a preorder on a Monday

[Draznak]

23 minutes ago, Goatforce said:

I doubt it as we just had the Death books announced for pre-order, maybe the week after though, idk

 

I also think they will alternate with 40k or related games.

We may have a pre order for the seraphons on April 22 for a release on the 29th (with a pre order announcement on Sunday the 16th).

[Clan's Cynic]

Wyrdhollow fluff article with some new art.

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, KingKull said:

Any chance of lizard box going on preorder next Monday?

We had the preorder announcement for next Saturday and it didn't include Lizardmen. The earliest it could come would therefore be the Saturday after, but it's more likely that'll be 40k focused, so the Saturday after that would be more likely.