The Rumour Thread

[Flippy]

5 minutes ago, madmac said:

The thing is, the pre-supposes that they're actively ticking off a schedule like, they had a meeting and went "Ok hands up if you think we should work on Skaven or Lumineth next. Looks like LRL have it 5-4, you heard them Bob go sculpt some new elves"

The reality is that all or most of these decisions were set in motion many many years ago and likewise in the case of these 1st edition armies that I personally own too many of, the lack of new miniatures today is because of processes put in motion forever ago.  Simply put, IF LRL get new models this year (which looks unlikely, but whatever) that doesn't mean that GW's sculpting team is just over there cranking out new elf models nonstop only pausing to spit on the fyreslayer molds six times a day. It would just mean that LRL already had models in the pipeline that were made years and years ago, probably right alongside the most recent release and just strategically delayed to maximize sales.

Likewise, the reason we've gotten virtually no second waves for those neglected 1st Ed armies is because at the time they were made GW had no further specific plans to expand them. That's the actual difference between the big multiwave releases we see these days vs those old small armies of yesteryear. The newer armies are made with more models, and planned out as big multiple waves of releases from the start. The old armies were a one and done project when they were made, and we can only speculate if GW has any serious plans in progress for them even now.

A very reasonable assumption. Once it became obvious that AoS is there to stay they probably decided to push the pedal to the metal with the new factions. But the point still stands - this might have happened years ago, but someone still ordered to prepare the rolling release of 20 Lumineth kits instead of 14 and e.g. expansions sets for KO, DoK and Idoneth.

[Grimrock]

18 minutes ago, madmac said:

The thing is, the pre-supposes that they're actively ticking off a schedule like, they had a meeting and went "Ok hands up if you think we should work on Skaven or Lumineth next. Looks like LRL have it 5-4, you heard them Bob go sculpt some new elves"

The reality is that all or most of these decisions were set in motion many many years ago and likewise in the case of these 1st edition armies that I personally own too many of, the lack of new miniatures today is because of processes put in motion forever ago.  Simply put, IF LRL get new models this year (which looks unlikely, but whatever) that doesn't mean that GW's sculpting team is just over there cranking out new elf models nonstop only pausing to spit on the fyreslayer molds six times a day. It would just mean that LRL already had models in the pipeline that were made years and years ago, probably right alongside the most recent release and just strategically delayed to maximize sales.

Likewise, the reason we've gotten virtually no second waves for those neglected 1st Ed armies is because at the time they were made GW had no further specific plans to expand them. That's the actual difference between the big multiwave releases we see these days vs those old small armies of yesteryear. The newer armies are made with more models, and planned out as big multiple waves of releases from the start. The old armies were a one and done project when they were made, and we can only speculate if GW has any serious plans in progress for them even now.

Yeah I'm not saying they made this decision a month ago or anything. It may have been a long time ago, but that doesn't change the fact that GW made the decision that they would release 3 books in 3 years for a single faction. If the rough timeline of 3 years to go from conception to release is right, then they planned the first Lumineth book in 2017. The second was started in 2018, and this most recent one was 2019. Every time they decided to start the process of a new Lumineth book they could have instead chosen to work on something else. This schedule was intentionally chosen, resources allocated, and work done. 

You're absolutely right, if rumors are true then GW had no intention to update those small 1st generation armies at conception of AoS, but that is a business decision they made at the time. They worked with AoS for years before they decided to do Lumineth and they absolutely could have changed course and started to expand the 1st generation factions. Again, they chose not to and instead decided to focus their resources on other factions. 

GW has full control on what they work on and when they work on it. Every product they make is a result of a direct business decision, and every decision comes at an opportunity cost. When they work on Lumineth they're not working on another faction like Skaven or Beastmen. 

Edit: If we're going to be as generous as possible then the first two books could have been planned in 2017 and intentionally split into two. This couldn't have been a result of the pandemic, that happened too late in the cycle. Then if this new book is small enough to only need a year or two they might have started it around the time the first Lumineth book was released. Regardless of the order, they still chose to release 3 books in 3 years and dedicate the necessary resources to those books. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Grimrock

[Doko]

27 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

You're absolutely right, if rumors are true then GW had no intention to update those small 1st generation armies at conception of AoS

Yes this was true before,now sylvaneth getting new units have broken this(also we could say kruelboys being new units for ironjaws).

Only poor fyreslayers gonna have to wait others 3\4 years before expand his huge 2 non heroes boxes with other foot hero but while certain elfs get his 99 temple with the 100th new kit

[yukishiro1]

Sylvaneth are elves (sort-of), they go by the elf rule. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by yukishiro1

[novakai]

Well when I comes to model release, GW is not exactly fair or partial to who get what usually. Expectation is that certain armies just get more then other or get more consistently. There sort of a hierarchy to the armies when it comes to releases
 

in my mind the hierarchy of armies would go like this

Posterboy tier: self explanatory, Space marines and Stormcast are usually guaranteed to get stuff every edition

the Flavor of the Month good guy army: the Imperium/ Order armies tend to get more and they usually give focus to one of these armies in the short term but it rotates sometimes. For 40K it was Admech last round, current it sister of battle, in the future it maybe the new Legion of Votann. AoS it currently LRL but it may shift to Dawnbringer in the future.

well known core armies, usually the recognisable popular armies in the IP that are not part of the two category above. These armies usually have good chances of getting model every edition but a bit less frequent(3-6 year range) CSM, Orks, and maybe Eldar would fall here. AoS it harder to say outside of Slaves to darkness and maybe Khorne

everyone else: armies that are 6-9+ Year range for a big refresh. Example would be like Grey Knights and Tyranids. Some armies who had a big refresh like Necrons may not be sure next one would be either

[yukishiro1]

AOS also has the leftover armies that got ported over but have got only token model support ever since the release of the game and may or may not ever get a significant post-AOS release. FEC, Bonesplitterz, BoC, Cities historically though with DBC who knows now. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by yukishiro1

[Chaos Shepard]

10 minutes ago, novakai said:

Well when I comes to model release, GW is not exactly fair or partial to who get what usually. Expectation is that certain armies just get more then other or get more consistently. There sort of a hierarchy to the armies when it comes to releases
 

in my mind the hierarchy of armies would go like this

Posterboy tier: self explanatory, Space marines and Stormcast are usually guaranteed to get stuff every edition

the Flavor of the Month good guy army: the Imperium/ Order armies tend to get more and they usually give focus to one of these armies in the short term but it rotates sometimes. For 40K it was Admech last round, current it sister of battle, in the future it maybe the new Legion of Votann. AoS it currently LRL but it may shift to Dawnbringer in the future.

well known core armies, usually the recognisable popular armies in the IP that are not part of the two category above. These armies usually have good chances of getting model every edition but a bit less frequent(3-6 year range) CSM, Orks, and maybe Eldar would fall here. AoS it harder to say outside of Slaves to darkness and maybe Khorne

everyone else: armies that are 6-9+ Year range for a big refresh. Example would be like Grey Knights and Tyranids. Some armies who had a big refresh like Necrons may not be sure next one would be either

There is also the special perks to the edition villain. This is currently Ork/Cruel Boyz for AoS and Necrons for 40k. They will, for about the duration of the edition, get special treatment. I am talking about limited edition sculps and special consideration in spinoff/box games.

[Public Universal Duardin]

5 hours ago, Captaniser said:

Yeah, that is mostly what i am thinking is going to happen as well, ToW is going to be rather limited in scope and focus on only a small amount of factions, but there will be token rules for all the "squated" (do we even use this term anymore?) factions. 

 

As a person that interacts quite a lot with the total warhammer community, there is a lot of people there that are completely convinced that ToW will just be the next edition of WHFB and that all previous factions will come out all at once and be updated so they can collect a Tombking, Chorf, Cathay or elven army right out the gate and all manner of other factions that barely even had a sentance of lore attributed to them. Wonder how those people will take it.

There's a reason why the only WHFB community I hang out with happens to be the few greying longbeards on this very site...

I mean, that belief stems from the sadly still cultivated anti-AoS circlejerk I still sadly find out in the wild on sites like Reddit, and I have a gut feeling some view TOW not only as the second coming of WHFB but the end of AOS (which definitely isn't happening - worst selling year for AoS has probably broken WHFB's best selling year). Now, we won't know for sure to what extent GW will actually support TOW or not, but the fact that they've been so silent about it makes me think that there's some troubles behind the scenes. I'm not expecting anything more than starting with some Empire civil war campaign book and a few overpriced resin miniatures, probably giving out either free or paid rules for most old armies but expecting you to source the miniatures yourself. Especially if TOW is delayed so long that most of Cities of Sigmar will be squatted in favour of Dawnbringers.

[Ragest]

2 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:

Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what it means.

Now if you were to say that Lumineth not getting as many models wouldn't guarantee that some more needy faction would get more...that's obviously true. I'm not sure any amount of limiting Lumineth releases would have got Fyreslayers more than their token foot hero, because I think GW just doesn't have any ideas left for that faction. If it wasn't Lumineth it might have been one of their other favorites instead.

But it is pretty much the case that one miniature for X means one less mini for some faction other than X. 

 

The thing is that I wouldnt say one more mini for lrl/sce/nh/sylvaneth is taking the slot for fs releases because i don’t think there are any releases anyway for them, so the chances are hoping that everyone gets just one model like you to share your frustration or being happy because your game is getting expanded.

Lets face reality, some armies are trapped in the circle of not having support, not being attractive because of the lack of support and not selling well because they are not attractive, so gw refuses to support them. 
The good part is that nobody is forced to play any army.

[PrimeElectrid]

Morathi warscroll leaked. Kept shoot twice every single turn. Lmao

[KrispyXIV]

59 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Morathi warscroll leaked. Kept shoot twice every single turn. Lmao

Faction spells got harder because morathi lost her cast +1, no rerolls on hits or wounds, many buffs only last until end of turn or phase instead of until next hero phase, easy and cheap battleshock immunity gone...

There are a lot of foundational changes to the rest of the book that affect it that aren't covered by "Morathi kept shoot twice."  

Even as simple as the fact that you can't give bow snakes a 5++ via an aura turn 1 makes them massively easier for an opponent to kill. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by KrispyXIV

[Flippy]

51 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Lets face reality, some armies are trapped in the circle of not having support, not being attractive because of the lack of support and not selling well because they are not attractive, so gw refuses to support them. 

This happened in the past, but it’s way too early to assume that any of the original AoS armies is already in this vicious circle. Leftovers from WHFB - maybe. Idoneth, Kharadrons, Bonereapers - these are all spectacular and very attractive lines (and yes, I’ve omitted Fyreslayers on purpose). Can’t speak of the sales.

[Howdyhedberg]

I've been joking about a new lumineth tome, but I didn't expect to see it so soon! 

[yukishiro1]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Morathi warscroll leaked. Kept shoot twice every single turn. Lmao

Yeah, very dumb move there. It may be that it is compensated with other things to not be such a big deal this time around, but hero phase shoot abilities just shouldn't exist, period. Or they should prevent you from shooting in the shooting phase if you use them, so they're just an option to shoot before moving rather than after. 

But they added the SCE one in 3.0 too so obviously the devs think shoot twice is fine. 

[Mutton]

I'm excited for this DoK book from most of what I've seen. If for no other reason than to taste the tears of constant bellyachers. 

Every time someone complains about Morathi, I grow in power.

[UnholyRevenant]

Oh!? My picutres got deleted. Did i break some site rules, i apologise if i did, dont want anyone to get into unnecessary trouble

[KingBrodd]

All Im saying, as a Destruction Fanboy, coming from an incredibly biased place, is that if all Destruction gets during Era of the Beast is Kruelboyz and a Gargant upgrade kit than it would be incredibly disheartening.

Mawtribes or Gloomspite deserve a Wave 2, Mawtribes moreso as the only AOS models theyve recieved is a new Tyrant and terrain piece. 

A new Faction would definately help if this is the case.

[Ganigumo]

5 hours ago, novakai said:

I think Warclan is close if you count Ironjawz and Kruleboyz as one army. Of course it hard to count all the kits right now since a lot of the Kruleboyz heroes are In starter sets right now

I don't think most people consider the different warclans the same army, I imagine even GW doesn't given how the rules are written and how vastly different the model ranges are (even stuff like lumineth share some design elements across the entire army, with orruks the only thing they share is being green).

35 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

All Im saying, as a Destruction Fanboy, coming from an incredibly biased place, is that if all Destruction gets during Era of the Beast is Kruelboyz and a Gargant upgrade kit than it would be incredibly disheartening.

Mawtribes or Gloomspite deserve a Wave 2, Mawtribes moreso as the only AOS models theyve recieved is a new Tyrant and terrain piece. 

A new Faction would definately help if this is the case.

It would be nice to see them flex stuff like warcry for other alliances and range updates as well. Spiderfang only needs like 2 kits to be in a good spot (spider riders and a pusgoyle/dragonrider style dual kit for scuttleboss/monstrous cav). Both updated spider riders and updated maneaters would be great fits for warcry now that its moving to ghur. As cool as the cultist models are I'm getting a little worn out on different outfits of chaos marauders at this point.

[Ragest]

I don’t understand this battletome release to be honest.

Seems like a very expensive WD.

[Jator]

3 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

There's a reason why the only WHFB community I hang out with happens to be the few greying longbeards on this very site...

I mean, that belief stems from the sadly still cultivated anti-AoS circlejerk I still sadly find out in the wild on sites like Reddit, and I have a gut feeling some view TOW not only as the second coming of WHFB but the end of AOS (which definitely isn't happening - worst selling year for AoS has probably broken WHFB's best selling year). Now, we won't know for sure to what extent GW will actually support TOW or not, but the fact that they've been so silent about it makes me think that there's some troubles behind the scenes. I'm not expecting anything more than starting with some Empire civil war campaign book and a few overpriced resin miniatures, probably giving out either free or paid rules for most old armies but expecting you to source the miniatures yourself. Especially if TOW is delayed so long that most of Cities of Sigmar will be squatted in favour of Dawnbringers.

 I think they put themselves on a corner when they based the teaser on square bases. There's nothing wrong with good ol' rank & file by itself, but it's an ill-suited system for the dynamic miniatures GW does nowadays. 
  I'd be ok with ToW using the AoS ruleset, the same way HH used to play like the 40k edition that was current when it was released, as I care for the WHF setting and not for the rules (which where fun for sure, but not peak design), and that could be the best option for its longevity.  But GW sailed that ship with that teaser, and there's no turning back.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Jator

[Ledgington]

As someone who bought the Lumineth battle tome and Broken Realms: Teclis, I’ve got to say I’m not mad about Lumineth getting a Third Edition battle tome at all. I’d rather they got it at the middle of the edition rather than right at the end like last time.

However saying that, this is the second battle tome. Other than the new warscrolls Broken Realms: Teclis was a supplement that added two allegiances and the wind temple magic lore. What people are calling their second tome was a reprint of the first battle tome with the Lumineth’s rule pages from Broken Realms: Teclis, the rules had not changed from the first tome and they were still valid. You can still use the original tome from the initial release to play a game today and it would include all the rules you would need for the models in the original release (excluding the errata). 

Nevertheless, Khorn really needed this slot in the release more than the Lumineth… And I’d have preferred new cover art.

[Jetlife]

5 hours ago, madmac said:

The thing is, the pre-supposes that they're actively ticking off a schedule like, they had a meeting and went "Ok hands up if you think we should work on Skaven or Lumineth next. Looks like LRL have it 5-4, you heard them Bob go sculpt some new elves"

The reality is that all or most of these decisions were set in motion many many years ago and likewise in the case of these 1st edition armies that I personally own too many of, the lack of new miniatures today is because of processes put in motion forever ago.  Simply put, IF LRL get new models this year (which looks unlikely, but whatever) that doesn't mean that GW's sculpting team is just over there cranking out new elf models nonstop only pausing to spit on the fyreslayer molds six times a day. It would just mean that LRL already had models in the pipeline that were made years and years ago, probably right alongside the most recent release and just strategically delayed to maximize sales.

Likewise, the reason we've gotten virtually no second waves for those neglected 1st Ed armies is because at the time they were made GW had no further specific plans to expand them. That's the actual difference between the big multiwave releases we see these days vs those old small armies of yesteryear. The newer armies are made with more models, and planned out as big multiple waves of releases from the start. The old armies were a one and done project when they were made, and we can only speculate if GW has any serious plans in progress for them even now.

At some point they will run out of new armies right? Then maybe circle back, like they have done with the chaos god factions. I guess we can only hope. It’s crazy that the largest Re-release of/ new wave of models for a first edition is this now Sylvaneth release with 3 units…..  I’d imagine at some point all the armies will get rebuffed, but you figure Fyreslayers, and other older armies that could use it have to be behind in line with armies like Skaven and beastmen. 

[Clan's Cynic]

Primaris confirmed for Nighthaunt.

[EccentricCircle]

6 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

BY LONG LOST NEHEKHARA WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME ABOUT THE LOSS OF THE SPHINX?!?! I only got into the hobby back in 206/2017! the range was already discontinued when I joined, but that kit was so awe-inspiring.... and now the only way to find that kit is to fight other fans on eBay where it goes for an average of $200+!!!! Please GW! Please bring back these kits so that the legions may march once more!

Apologies oh Pharaoh! The mighty sphynxes of yore were indeed fine beasts and the greatest steeds a Tomb King or Queen could ask for. Mine sit in pride of place in my display cabinet, and I hope that you are one day able to get so e of your very own. There are a few other companies which make tomb kings counts as, but I don't know of anything that quite replicates those kits. I feel like I've see some 3d printable options maybe from one page rules. May the sands consume whoever let those beasts go extinct, and may Nehekhara never be forgotten!

[Yondaime]

3 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:

Faction spells got harder because morathi lost her cast +1, no rerolls on hits or wounds, many buffs only last until end of turn or phase instead of until next hero phase, easy and cheap battleshock immunity gone...

There are a lot of foundational changes to the rest of the book that affect it that aren't covered by "Morathi kept shoot twice."  

Even as simple as the fact that you can't give bow snakes a 5++ via an aura turn 1 makes them massively easier for an opponent to kill. 

Problem is, in a game where DT is a core mechanic (and an already unfair one for melee armies) the ability to shoot twice is insanely broken, if you get the DT you shoot 4 Times before the opponent can even react

i don’t play the army of crazy maniacs that workship the literal god of murder to shoot with bows ffs