The Rumour Thread

[Aeryenn]

2 minutes ago, Still-young said:

If GW had plans for a proper second wave, I don’t think they’d have souped the book. 

And isn't it a problem?

Is there any reason why not to give a few more models to Ironjawz?

[Beliman]

51 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

You are forgetting that they once played together, steampunk, slayer, and viking dwarves, and the armies were diverse and breath taking.

 

Let's be honest here, Dwarfs were one big army; their Ironweld/Kharadron and Fyreslayers sub-themes were alternative list (Guild Expedition) and one campaign list (Karak Kadrin).
We are not talking about sub-themes, we are talking about Kharadrons and Fyreslayers being a diferent big army with their own sub-themes.

Btw, for anyone that want rules to play with just Duardins, there is Barak-Thryng sub-theme for KO to play semi-soup lists.

 

[Grotbag Scuttlers When]

8 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Is there any reason why not to give a few more models to Ironjawz?

Finite amount of time and resources, probably not much demand (I find the last part difficult to believe, but I don't believe I can teach GW their job. If there was demand, they would have capitalized on it)

Edited May 26, 2021 by Grotbag Scuttlers When

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Legions of Nagash had various Nighthaunt units, Arkhan the Black, Morghasts and Bat Swarms that are lost in the transition to Gravelords. Gravelords has less soup options than Legions of Nagash. There were several people in the Gravelords thread decrying that they lost models in the transition, and thus unable to play the exact same list as they were used to in Legions of Nagash.

I am aware. However, I was bringing up the point that I can still play my old lists in response to the idea that Soulblight is a completely seprate faction in relation to LoN. It's manifestly not. It even inherits most of the old mechanics in some form.

This point I'm interested in is whether soup tomes get new models. LoN was, for a long time, seen as the paradigm soup tome, where old factions go to die. Then LoN got an update and a name change. It lost some units to other established facitons, and it got some resculpted kits and new models. To me, that makes it pretty much impossible to argue that being souped at some point is a death knell for a faction. We have a very recent example in Gravelords of the opposite.

7 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Why can't we look at the update history of all the subfactions in it before it was souped up? In theory, that plethora of subfactions should give more chances of updated models, not less.

I say this in response to people arguing that soup factions don't get updates. What would soup factions not getting updates before being souped tell us?

If those factions had got lots of updates before, there would be a case to be made. But if they didn't get models before being souped and don't get models after, that really doesn't allow us to argue that being souped makes it so that you don't get models anymore.

10 minutes ago, Darnok said:

None of that changes even a little bit that there is exactly one release for the current CoS book since 2015, and it will only be out in a few weeks.

You are shifting goal posts. Sorry, no interest in that on my end.

Since you are the one bringing it up, it seems to me that you are moving the goal posts. See the explanation above: If you want to argue that soup books don't get models, then the component factions of Cities not getting models before they were souped should not count against being souped together. If you just want to argue that Cities is composed of factions that did not get any releases since AoS 1, so be it. But I take it that you actually want to bring this up to make a point about how souping dwarves would be bad for those factions. Which, judging from your initial post, you did:

Spoiler

Quote

 

Cities of Sigmar souped a lot of factions up together and is probably one of the better books GW has produced and make a lot of the older 'obsolete' range feel new again.

Soup isn't bad at all.

 

Quote

Unless you would like to get some new releases every now and then. CoS did not get a single release since the end of WHF other than books.

 

 

Currently, Cities is getting a release. Which is more than they got before they got their battletome. It's not a lot more, but that's also not the point. The point is, if we are looking at the possibility of getting extra models after being souped together (which is what I take to be at issue re: dwarves), then in the case of Cities it was an improvement. Possibly a substantial improvement soon if rumours about a coming Freeguild rework/expansion are to be believed.

[Jagged Red Lines]

6 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

But you will be probably hurt by the lack of a proper Ironjawz second wave release. 😔

Got to say, why would they make a second wave of fyreslayers when they're clearly the least popular (aesthetically speaking) faction in the game. 

Fyreslayers are more likely to get new units as part of a wider, more popular faction than they are on their own as a niche. Its much less of a business risk to GW if they're pitching new kits at a broader range of players than they are pitching purely at fyreslayers diehards

[Gitzdee]

I dont think looking at past books matters at all. LoN was a filler book to give them time to release nighthaunt en bonereapers. Now they are their own thing and it became gravelords. Its is more interesting to look at what the future holds imo. They just released a new super villain in the form of Kragnos and a new breed of evil to go along with it. Order got all the Avengers for now and nagash has been dealt with for the time being. The way things are going now we will most likely see a new dwarf Avenger and new units to go along with it. I didnt expect kragnos to unite all destruction models and i think its easier to unite dwarfs than the destruction factions. Now that i think about it sce could be asgardians or something similar. Ok i lost my train of thought.

edit: Ah yes i dont think u can compare old soup books to decisions they are making at the moment because the state of the game is totally different now. The Whfb days are kinda over by now.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Iksdee

[Whitefang]

12 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I just wish they got more models sooner rather than later.

Coming...very soon!

Like, several days?

[Aeryenn]

Vicious circle.

Fyreslayers and Ironjawz are less and less popular because they have small model range.

They don't get new releases because they are not popular.

GW can either give up on them or support them with a good second wave and see them becoming popular.

[King Under the Mountain]

I'm firmly in "Camp No Soup Please" 

While Fyreslayers is lacking in many departments, Kharadron Overlords is such a unique and different faction (Much more then Ironjaws vs Bonesplitters) that putting them in a soup will do a great disservice to them.  

Seriously its like putting DoK and LRLs in the same book... 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

12 minutes ago, Grotbag Scuttlers When said:

Finite amount of time and resources, probably not much demand

I think finite time and ressourced is what's at the heart of it. Only about three to four factions get big releases per year. If we look at the whole life cycle of AoS 2, only about 9 to 10 factions got what I would consider a substantial release (more than a few hero models). Of those, 4 were new factions. So about 5-6 big releases for existing factions over the whole of AoS 2.

I really think that makes it very hard to point to any particular faction and say "See, GW hates these guys! They didn't get a big release!". There are only so many big releases GW can even fit into one edition. Especially if it's in the context of something like AoS 2, where the big concern was to make sure that every faction even had rules.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Still-young]

21 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

And isn't it a problem?

Is there any reason why not to give a few more models to Ironjawz?

It’s not a problem with soup books though. Them being in a soup also doesn’t actually  preclude them getting more models in the future in any way, I think it’s worth noting, it’s just not something that’s happened with a souped army yet. 
 

I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. Soup books aren’t the cause of ranges not being expanded, they’re the result of there not being plans to expand an army. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Still-young
Wrong ‘there’ 🙄

[SunStorm]

12 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

But you will be probably hurt by the lack of a proper Ironjawz second wave release. 😔

Seeing as we don't know what the future holds, I don't know. But i'm not going to waste energy worrying about it. 

What I do know is that early on in AoS there were lots of people making claims in threads like this that Slaanesh was dead, GW was slowly killing off all Slaanesh and they'd never again see a new model. 

 

 

 

 

[zilberfrid]

27 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I say this in response to people arguing that soup factions don't get updates. What would soup factions not getting updates before being souped tell us?

If those factions had got lots of updates before, there would be a case to be made. But if they didn't get models before being souped and don't get models after, that really doesn't allow us to argue that being souped makes it so that you don't get models anymore.

There have been three characters released for KO, two of which are basically useless. One is in Cities (so unavailable) locked in a subfaction and has bad rules. The other (Bugmansson) doesn't have any rules at all.

There is clearly design space to expand on the range and a few army roles make sense.

Because KO has now been lumped in with Fyreslayers, those army roles are gone*, so we won't get to see models for it.

To me, it feels like Kharadron (who, I think, do sell well) will be limited because they didn't design Fyreslayers well enough to sell them.

 

*except, of course, the Fyreslayers won't get the Marine keyword so you can't get them anywhere.

Edited May 26, 2021 by zilberfrid

[zilberfrid]

14 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

I'm firmly in "Camp No Soup Please" 

While Fyreslayers is lacking in many departments, Kharadron Overlords is such a unique and different faction (Much more then Ironjaws vs Bonesplitters) that putting them in a soup will do a great disservice to them.  

Seriously its like putting DoK and LRLs in the same book... 

It'd be to put LRL and DOK in one book, and make Malarion its god.

[Darnok]

10 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Coming...very soon!

Like, several days?

Apperently there will be new Greenskins. Ironjawz or Bonesplitters though? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, this is not meant as an attack: taking your comment literally can be taken like "see, Gloomspite Gits and Spiderfang and Gnoblars get new models too!". Which is clearly not the case.

I remain hopeful that all of them get new releases at some point, and look forward to what Saturday has in store for us.

[CDM]

On 5/23/2021 at 5:06 PM, EnumaEilish said:

“‘THO’. The lands of Ghur are so vast and varied, that this cryptic location remains a mystery to me. As for the image itself, I can only hazard a guess as to what dangers we may yet face. For now, I shall continue my studies of both this machine and the temporal anomaly that always occupies my thoughts.“

Looks like

 

[Gitzdee]

nvm 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Iksdee

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Gentle nudge back onto rumours 😊  Happy for somebody to make a thread about the pro's and cons of soup books 🥣

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, zilberfrid said:

There have been three characters released for KO, two of which that basically useless. One is in Cities (so unavailable) locked in a subfaction and has bad rules. The other (Bugmansson) doesn't have any rules at all.

There is clearly design space to expand on the range and a few army roles make sense.

Because KO has now been lumped in with Fyreslayers, those army roles are gone*, so we won't get to see models for it.

To me, it feels like Kharadron (who, I think, do sell well) will be limited because they didn't design Fyreslayers well enough to sell them.

 

*except, of course, the Fyreslayers won't get the Marine keyword so you can't get them anywhere.

Before I start: I also think it would be better if Fyreslayers and KO don't become one army. Just to get that out of the way.

But we really don't know what being souped together means from a support perspective at this point. LoN was souped, and is now unsouped, with all it's component ranges (OBR, Nighthaunt, G-Lords) being properly supported. We could also consider Gravelords to be a case of a soup faction getting support. Deathrattle, Deadwalkers and Soulblight vampires were, after all, separate at some point. At least as much as the two Orruk factions were. Or BCR and Gutbusters.

There is nothing stopping GW from making a dwarf soup book, but also battletomes for Fyreslayers and Kharadron Overlords. That, I think, would at least be a good move. There is definitely demand for the option of playing dwarf soup. Maybe all those battletomes will be in the same book, like Warclans. We really don't know what that will mean for continued support in the future, but it does not necessarily mean that there will be no new KO or Fyreslayers, ever.

[Nezzhil]

7 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Apperently there will be new Greenskins. Ironjawz or Bonesplitters though? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong, this is not meant as an attack: taking your comment literally can be taken like "see, Gloomspite Gits and Spiderfang and Gnoblars get new models too!". Which is clearly not the case.

I remain hopeful that all of them get new releases at some point, and look forward to what Saturday has in store for us.

When Whitefang affirms something without doubting, it is because he knows things...

[Aeryenn]

17 minutes ago, Still-young said:

I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. Soup books aren’t the cause of ranges not being expanded, they’re the result of there not being plans to expand an army. 

However we call or describe it, it doesn't solve the problem of people wanting model support for their faction. People don't want soups, they want models. We as customers can tell gw our expectations. If they don't have plans for expanding Fyreslayers and Ironjawz maybe they should change their attitude? People want to give their money for new models. What other incentive are they waiting for?

[Gitzdee]

8 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

However we call or describe it, it doesn't solve the problem of people wanting model support for their faction. People don't want soups, they want models. We as customers can tell gw our expectations. If they don't have plans for expanding Fyreslayers and Ironjawz maybe they should change their attitude? People want to give their money for new models. What other incentive are they waiting for?

Because it takes a lot of time to develop new models and they cant release updates for 24 armies in one edition. Combining books is a way to keep things fresh i guess while waiting for something new.

Edit: I also give my money for new spiderfang/skaven/bonesplitters but i dont expect them any time soon. I'm still happy they havent been scrapped yet.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Iksdee

[zamerion]

29 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Coming...very soon!

Like, several days?

New ironjaws and bonesplitterz too? 😮

[Damosane]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Kharadron do not need gods and Fyreslayers are clearly aligned with Grimnir.

Grimnir is dead and dwarves above all respect their ancestors. It's foolish to believe they wouldn't answer a call to war from Grungni no matter what grudges they have built up, plus I'm sure Grungni could offer them plenty of ur gold. 

Don't understand the weird gatekeeping and massive reaction to dwarves being combined into one battletome. There is literally nothing stopping you from still running a Fyreslayers lodge or a Kharadron  fleet. The comparison that the different dwarves are akin to lumineth and sylvaneth is absolutely ridiculous,  those are two different and distinct species who both just happen to serve a God who used to be an elf. The kharadron, dispossessed and Fyreslayers are all the same species who have drifted apart since their gods died/vanished. They are far closer to different lumineth temples that don't play nice with eachother very often than they are two completely different races.

 

Also think a combined battletome increases  the chance of more dwarf models more than it reduces it too, Fyreslayers especially are a design dead end. Do you guys even convert anyhow? Wouldn't be hard to convert Fyreslayer sky pirates or drunken kharadron berserkers if you wanted things to be more aesthetically similar for whatever reason

[Aidrox]

I for one love the idea of a duardin soup. I just maybe don't trust GW to do it justice currently. I like mismatched armies with people of different background and ideological standpoints working together for a common goal. To me personally it looks better on a table and in art than hordes of the same unit.

In an ideal world there would be three subfactions and a soup faction. FS, KO, Dispossessed and altogether. Dispossessed would get immediate new models to act as a bridge between the other two very different aesthetics. KO could be very clearly positioned in the lore to be working as allies to the other duardin and respect Grungni as a person while not praying to him.

My issue is if GW throw the current models together without new ones. I felt a little cheated by warclans because it didn't come with anything new. Or if they suddenly say that the KO blindly follow their new god.