The Rumour Thread

[Mr. White]

Hmmmm....I'm a grown man who enjoys painting and playing pretend with little knights, aelves, and orruks. 

In that light, it's hard to imagine being upset because some 8-12 year olds will get some fiction to read. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, MacDuff said:

I just wonder how they're going to deal with the combat part of WARgaming...  When you pull out a sword or axe, things tend to get messy.

Apparently you've never seen any of the countless children's shows where violence is moderated for the audience.  

Even in the grimdark the violence is severely tempered.  Just last night I was listening to a panel interview with a bunch of film directors who made popular war films and one of them said, and I'm paraphrasing "you can't make a war film that is true to life because only psychopaths could watch it" 

There is just no basis for the argument that you can't filter conflict for a younger age group.  

[VBS]

1 hour ago, Kirjava13 said:

Good grief fellas, nobody is taking away your toys. They are just making them for other people as well. 

Random thought but to develop on this, I have the impression a lot of people tend to be quite egocentric when dealing with toy soldiers. Possible explanation to the backlash towards the kids books for example (I'm totally fine with them btw). If a product from their favorite company that covers different lines does not appeal to them, they will make sure to be heard and can't (or refuse) see the objective and/or appeal of said product simply because they are not the target and will not buy it. They want the company to only concentrate on what they perceive as useful.

We have plenty of examples even on TGA, illustrated through factions not being updated immediately (omg SC agaaaain?), the Warhammer Legends stuff or when 40k 8th dropped and got all the attention. Arguments revolve around "waste of ressources", "loss of momentum" or "how terrible it will for the company if I stop giving them my money". Basically nonsense as I suspect 99% of us here don't work for GW or have any knowledge of the company's finances/business.

I suppose the internet and forums are an easy way to vent and nurture an illusion of self-importance and entitlement through a random granular opinion no one cares about (or almost). Warhammer books for kids is exploring new possibilities, as they have been doing ever since the CEO change (in case someone still didn't notice...) so I think it can interesting from a company development perspective, even if I don't see any personal appeal for the product.

Yeah, people never cease to amaze me, more so when overpriced plastic toys are involved 

[erasercrumbs]

23 minutes ago, Mr. White said:

Hmmmm....I'm a grown man who enjoys painting and playing pretend with little knights, aelves, and orruks. 

 

I'm a grown man who enjoys playing pretend with one-eyed zombies with their intestines hanging out, multi-boobed hermaphroditic d(a)emons, militant priests who put witches to the torch, and evil ratmen who succeed in destroying the world by smashing the moon into it.  So long as the introduction of YA fiction doesn't lead to an overall lightening of the setting, and thus a reduction in the over-the-top violence and grotesquery that attracted so many of us to Warhammer in the first place, I'm sure both Kidhammer and Grimhammer can coexist in a state of relative peace, perhaps even symbiosis.  

[Sharkbelly]

Actually, I wrote to GW asking that they do just that. There is too much violence in the world already, and games like Warhammer only encourage it. The game should be about negotiating treaties and settling disputes peacefully. I even proposed a title to them: Age of Sigmar: an Age of Peace and Prosperity.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Sharkbelly

[Sharkbelly]

In the bright, hopeful future there is only peace. (TM)

[Chikout]

It is interesting that mature is seen my many as unthinking portrayal of death and slaughter, and kiddy is a thoughtful examination of the necessity of violence and the difficulty of living according to moral principles in an uncaring world. 

I think making two of the protagonists pacifist is a very interesting way of examining the nature of the setting.

One of the sigmar protagonists is an escaped Slave, who had to fight to survive. Even from reading the blurb I can see that the interactions between those characters will give rise to more interesting discussions with my kids about the nature of violence than the majority of 'mature' Warhammer fiction. 

I first read lotr as a seven year and my first exposure to 40k fiction were Ian Watson's books, but I would have loved to read books like these as a child and I will love to read them with my own children. 

On the rumour side of things, what is the point of making Darkoath a primary antagonist if you can't go and buy an army of them. I think this along with the harbinger mini pretty much confirms a 2019 battletome. 

[Swooper]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

On the rumour side of things, what is the point of making Darkoath a primary antagonist if you can't go and buy an army of them. I think this along with the harbinger mini pretty much confirms a 2019 battletome. 

That was exactly my first thought.

[BrownDog]

It's Hammer Time

[ShadowSwordmaster]

There was always the art piece where we saw those Order soldiers and Stormcast fighting the Combined Chaos force. Some of those were clearly Darkoath tribes. 

[Kyriakin]

We liked Warhammer from age 11 or 12, because it was mature.

In a world of "Goosebumps" books and the like, WHFB was tying in with, say, Medieval Russian history. We dug that.

Not sure how typical we were, but can't help but feel this would have felt patronizing as hell and delegitimized the adult thing i was trying to get into.

They are in that awkward WWE place of trying to adapt a fundementally violent concept to very young kids, while still trying to keep the hardcore fanbase (and older kids).

Personally speaking, I'll admit that i can't stand it. It just seems vacuous and trite to me. But it remains to be seen how "visible" this stuff is, and whether it can just be out of sight and mind for those who are not interested.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Kyriakin

[BrownDog]

I'm hoping these books will be in a similar tone to the Percy Jackson series, those were great fun

[Lanoss]

Really liking the ‘spend 50pts on a command point’ rule

SO MANY lists I’ve written that finish at 940/1440/1940... 

yay!

[TheWilddog]

13 minutes ago, BrownDog said:

I'm hoping these books will be in a similar tone to the Percy Jackson series, those were great fun

This was my thought exactly. Almost every kid in my son's grade school class read and loved these books. They are far from great literature, but they are fast paced, written for the modern generation and draw from the narrative wealth  of classical mythology. If these new AOS and 40K books fit into that same model they could be one highly successful and two introduce a lot of kids to the rich IP we all love, that honestly needs as much exposure as it can get.       

[Sharkbelly]

15 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Really liking the ‘spend 50pts on a command point’ rule

SO MANY lists I’ve written that finish at 940/1440/1940... 

yay!

That's why I always loved Gnoblars. Round out any list with a few more Gnobbies!

[Kyriakin]

I think what bothers me is not the concept of "kid-friendly" books, but kids being the protagonists. That's just weird to me.

I feel a toned-down version with the usual protagonists could have worked OK. Just look at HeroQuest.

I mean at what age are kids too young to actually paint these things? That's the true limiting factor for me with regards to age, and if GW were being honest with themselves, they would probably think that pre-painted might end up being more "inclusive" in that regard.

Aren't they already in bed with Heroclix over something-or-other?

[Sleboda]

5 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

I mean at what age are kids too young to actually paint these things? That's the true limiting factor for me with regards to age, and if GW were being honest with themselves, they would probably think that pre-painted might end up being more "inclusive" in that regard.

 

I strongly disagree.  Pre-painted would be the worst thing to happen to this hobby. 

I know a number of kids who are under 10 who paint or who started painting then and have developed a love for toy soldiers.

Don't under estimate these young peeps.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

11 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I strongly disagree.  Pre-painted would be the worst thing to happen to this hobby. 

I know a number of kids who are under 10 who paint or who started painting then and have developed a love for toy soldiers.

Don't under estimate these young peeps.

Hey now, repainting Dreamblade minis before they released unpainted packs was fun for a change lol.

[Bozly]

25 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I strongly disagree.  Pre-painted would be the worst thing to happen to this hobby. 

I know a number of kids who are under 10 who paint or who started painting then and have developed a love for toy soldiers.

Don't under estimate these young peeps.

Im with you but i think the only way pre painted in this game could work if they did like Dust does right now. Their lead developer paints tons of the minis boxes them and sells them having them exactly like the nox art. A normal box of of your ww2 german power fist zombies might cost ya 30 bucks but a box hes painted would be 80. Same thing but eavy metal. 

 

 

But i fully agree if my space marine looks like a  hero click ill protest. 

[Dragobeth]

We should stop thinking that kids today are like us when we were kids, stop with the "but i liked this becouse it was dark, kids today will not like it either" It's the same *** internet has been doing with all the Thundercats remake, please, we all love toy soldiers, GW making some "child-friendly" stories doesn't affect your toy soldier so get yourself together or your next stage will be something like "millenials are ruining warhammer with their prepainted minis bcs no time to paint and their 4 rule's pages bc no time to learn 999 rule's pages" or "reeeeeeeee normies get out of my hobby" 

Please, stop the manchild-cry and let's talk about toy soldiers. This is a rumor thread, we have some hints to slaanesh and other armies, let's talk about it.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Dragobeth

[Kyriakin]

52 minutes ago, Dragobeth said:

We should stop thinking that kids today are like us when we were kids, stop with the "but i liked this becouse it was dark, kids today will not like it either" It's the same *** internet has been doing with all the Thundercats remake, please, we all love toy soldiers, GW making some "child-friendly" stories doesn't affect your toy soldier so get yourself together or your next stage will be something like "millenials are ruining warhammer with their prepainted minis bcs no time to paint and their 4 rule's pages bc no time to learn 999 rule's pages" or "reeeeeeeee normies get out of my hobby" 

Please, stop the manchild-cry and let's talk about toy soldiers. This is a rumor thread, we have some hints to slaanesh and other armies, let's talk about it.

 

And yet this is the angriest (dare I say "whiniest") post since this topic dropped.

It's the old chestnut about "whining about whining", but I literally can't see any posts as intentionally divisive and furious as this one - unless, of course, some were deleted.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Kyriakin

[Kramer]

9 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Lets cool it and get back to the rumors, which is about: reaction to the rumors at hand and not reaction to people having reactions about the rumors

Might not be the right thread for it but I disagree that you shouldn’t react to other people. 

1. That’s how conversation works and the main reason for posting on a forum like this. Having a conversation with other game enthusiasts. (That last word being key)

2. We all have a bit of responsibilities for the ‘culture’ of this forum. Don’t know if you frequented this forum a year ago but there was a big discusision on what this forum should be like and what behaviour is excepted and what’s not. General consensus is: critisme is absolutely fine, as is freedom of speech of course, but that doesn’t relive you off a responsibility of what you are saying and how you are saying it. 

So in this case yes you should absolutely say that you feel it’s pointless to respond to the comments of others. Just like I should be okay with telling you that I think it’s very important part of having a online community. 

And in regards to the kid literature announcements. All the too negative/ragey reactions could be rephrased to very relevant concerns. For example ‘if they draw kids in with this more lighthearted communication will they have to remake the current content when that group gets older to prevent losing that big audience?’ Instead of ‘how dare they....’  and people can offer similar instances, maybe we can give the couple of gw employees that frequent this forum something to think on.

The conversation that started because of a comment around what brought everybody into the hobby is a very relevant and interesting conversation. What brought you in? What kept you away? I loved the grimey parts of the lore. But I most likely wouldn’t have a couple of years earlier. Maybe this could have been a good set up for as well. Or maybe you would have tried it didn’t like it, and as a consequence ignored Warhammer altogether. Again interesting conversation but it needs some rephrasing from some other to how @ZaelART phrased his comment. *

*just to be crystalclear that’s how I feel you should phrase concerns and criticisms 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Kramer
Clarifying

[Sleboda]

The new Thundercats was awesome.

[Beliman]

I don't have any problem with this new kid-books. It's a good move grom GW-marcketing, plain and simple. 

[Chikout]

I started painting when I was 9 with adeptus Titanicus. My son has been painting dinosaur figures since he was 5. I read the kiddy Hobbit when I was 6 and the more grown up lotr when I was 7 without any major shock to my system. 

I had a look at the Star wars books these guys did and the presentation style is very similar to Roald Dahl. I think the progression from these books, to the space marine adventures game the announced in February, to skirmish,  to the full game is very good. 

Anyway ,  I'm looking forward to today's magic article. Hoping the tzeentch faction focus is all about how they made them worse.