The Rumour Thread

[EnumaEilish]

29 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I am curious if we can guess approximately how much of an army is being presented in Dominion? How close did Indomitus get the armies to a full list? Can I likely get Dominion, toss in another battleline for both factions, and get a Stardrake and Maw Crusher and call it a day? Or will a start collecting box to round them out? What about the regular starter set that is likely incoming?

I know it is impossible to tell as points will change and maybe even the manner army lists are built will look different. But I still am curious how well we can map the possible contents in relationship to Soul Wars and Indomitus.  

I think this is the biggest plus for Kruel Boyz being part of Warclans would be that there is a start collecting set already available. It gives new players the chance to add on a start collecting set right away. Although as someone more interested in the SCE half I am leaning towards the Vanguard set as I love me some suboptimal builds with cool themes 😎

The Indomitus box is about 1000 points, so Dominion will likely need pretty significant filling out to make a full list. The other big models they’ve previewed will probably help, but I doubt they’ll go all the way.

[Nadure]

I've seen some rumours that point costs are going up across the board: does anyone know if this has been hinted at or substantiated in any way?

Edited June 6, 2021 by Nadure

[Erdemo86]

Still no new news? They said check back tomorrow, im checking Gw, im checking!!!! 😂😂

Edited June 6, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Neverchosen]

Was not expecting a new article today:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/06/dominion-brings-mighty-paladins-to-the-mortal-realms-none-shall-pass-the-stormcast-eternals-annihilators/

Also finally confirmation on 3 models for min unit size, now I can sleep a little easier.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Angela]

Spoiler

Are we subtracting 1 or 2 from the charge roll to determine the number of dice rolled, and then dealing mortal wounds on a 4+ or a unit with 2 models deal MW on a 5+ and a unit of one model deals MW on a 6+?  I think it is the former, but I've read the rule a few times and am not sure.

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

I wonder if these Kruleboyz are going to be the "Face" of destruction going forth? Since 1st edition the Ironjawz have had their faces plastered everywhere whenever GW talks about destruction. Promotional images, short stories, store banners, books, etc, Just like how Stormcast are used to represent GA:Order or how Nighthaunt are the face of GA:Death after Soul Wars. Will these new Orruks be the new face of our Grand Alliance? Or will we still see Orruk Brutes and Megabosses on all the promo images for Destruction?

I remember when Gloomspite and Mawtribes came out with larger and more developed factions there were a lot of people asking why the Grots or Ogors weren't the face of the Grand Alliance. Now there is a big and developed Orruk force in a starter set that fits the bill better.

I could see this happening actually.

The Sons as a Faction I doubt will be the face of Destruction, kind of like the Muscle, the stand over man always there but never at the forefront, which makes sense with their culture and how they react to the world around them. Aspects which I think are perfect for them and I love, but I would love to see Mawtribes become a bigger player in the scheme of things.

I dont for one second doubt the updated Ghur map with all the Mawpaths is hinting at a bigger relaunch/release for Ogors this Edition.

[JackStreicher]

18 minutes ago, Angela said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Are we subtracting 1 or 2 from the charge roll to determine the number of dice rolled, and then dealing mortal wounds on a 4+ or a unit with 2 models deal MW on a 5+ and a unit of one model deals MW on a 6+?  I think it is the former, but I've read the rule a few times and am not sure.

1 model: 6+
2 models: 5+
3 models: 4+
Is correct ^^

[Ogregut]

18 minutes ago, Angela said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Are we subtracting 1 or 2 from the charge roll to determine the number of dice rolled, and then dealing mortal wounds on a 4+ or a unit with 2 models deal MW on a 5+ and a unit of one model deals MW on a 6+?  I think it is the former, but I've read the rule a few times and am not sure.

It's the latter. 2 models deal MW on a 5+, 1 models deals MW on a 6+.

[Feii]

Can Gardus steelsoul get their rules? Oh well I guess I am playing him as the prime guy.

[Neverchosen]

2 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

It will depend on points costs of course and if SCE are getting more units in 3s but a rough guess:
[...]
Total: 1120

Add a Stardrake, an additional battleline, maybe a battalion or two and you’ll be close.

 

2 hours ago, EnumaEilish said:

The Indomitus box is about 1000 points, so Dominion will likely need pretty significant filling out to make a full list. The other big models they’ve previewed will probably help, but I doubt they’ll go all the way.

Thank you both, so I can guess it is about half way to a full 2000 point army. I did pick up a unit of the easy to build Sequitors and the Magazine with Knight Incantor previously, as I was going to kitbash them into some Chaos Chosen and a Sorcerer but I never got around to it. So Sigmar can get his troops back. 😇

I feel like the Start Collecting boxes would be a better way to fill out the points, but a centre piece would keep the model count and shelf space a little lower while also being cooler. Lots to mull over and I guess we will wait and see how the points line up but thanks again! 😁

Also apropos of nothing, I will likely go the cinematic route and have only unit Champions and Heroes unmasked. As we know you don't need a helmet when you are a named character. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Neverchosen

[Nagash42]

And people already saying they're worthless cause they have no mortal wound protection lol. 

[Mutton]

1 minute ago, Nagash42 said:

And people already saying they're worthless cause they have no mortal wound protection lol. 

There are always plenty of people willing to trumpet their lack of insight.

[Maogrim]

I really hope they flesh out the Kruleboyz a lot more and also give them their own Battletome. I'd like to be able to field them without the other Warclans and ideally without Hobgrotz. 

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, and I guess this might net me some confused emojis, but I think they are quite ugly and remind me of racist stereotypes (yellowish skin, slanted eyes).

[Acrozatarim]

2 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I really hope they flesh out the Kruleboyz a lot more and also give them their own Battletome. I'd like to be able to field them without the other Warclans and ideally without Hobgrotz. 

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, and I guess this might net me some confused emojis, but I think they are quite ugly and remind me of racist stereotypes (yellowish skin, slanted eyes).

I had the same reaction to the hobgrotz, although I think they may be salvageable with a different paintjob and maybe clipping the lone spikes off the top of their heads. I still can't get over how absurdly short their legs are compared to their bodies, but at least with a more firmly green (or outright weirder hue like orange) skin they'll appear less like they've staggered off some old Yellow Peril style poster.

[Aturox]

7 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I really hope they flesh out the Kruleboyz a lot more and also give them their own Battletome. I'd like to be able to field them without the other Warclans and ideally without Hobgrotz. 

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, and I guess this might net me some confused emojis, but I think they are quite ugly and remind me of racist stereotypes (yellowish skin, slanted eyes).

They look alot like the yellow basta rd from sin city in this colorscheme 😄

Edited June 6, 2021 by Aturox

[FFJump]

8 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I really hope they flesh out the Kruleboyz a lot more and also give them their own Battletome. I'd like to be able to field them without the other Warclans and ideally without Hobgrotz. 

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, and I guess this might net me some confused emojis, but I think they are quite ugly and remind me of racist stereotypes (yellowish skin, slanted eyes).

I've seen mixed reactions to them. They're either you love them or you hate them. Personally, they're my favorite models from the set. I love how they look, but it might be my Chaos Dwarf bias. I'm a huge fan of their skin color too, I'm glad GW actually made a paint for them (Hobgrot Hide) because I'm painting them that way. I know the color looks like puke basically, but I like how distinct it is in a sea of green, while not being horribly out of place. It really points out hey, these aren't orruks or typical grots. I'm kind of hoping they have hobgrot wolf riders and a leader too so I could make a pure hobgrot army 

[Angela]

8 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:

I had the same reaction to the hobgrotz, although I think they may be salvageable with a different paintjob and maybe clipping the lone spikes off the top of their heads. I still can't get over how absurdly short their legs are compared to their bodies, but at least with a more firmly green (or outright weirder hue like orange) skin they'll appear less like they've staggered off some old Yellow Peril style poster.

I don’t like the yellow skintones either. It looks like they are all dying of jaundice. When I google images “hobgoblins” I get mostly green, red or gray skintones. It will be good to see how others paint them. The gray or red seems most appealing to me.

[MitGas]

35 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I really hope they flesh out the Kruleboyz a lot more and also give them their own Battletome. I'd like to be able to field them without the other Warclans and ideally without Hobgrotz. 

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, and I guess this might net me some confused emojis, but I think they are quite ugly and remind me of racist stereotypes (yellowish skin, slanted eyes).

I think they're simply supposed to be ugly.  The new orruks aren't handsome gentlemen either.

Despite their armor looking vaguely asian, yellow skin and slanted eyes don't make them look like a caricature of any particular group of humans to me. If you find them offensive/racist, IMO you want to find them offensive/racist. It might be healthier for society if there's no general suspicion that everything is racist (or sexist).

[Maogrim]

9 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I think they're simply supposed to be ugly.  The new orruks aren't handsome gentlemen either.

Despite their armor looking vaguely asian, yellow skin and slanted eyes don't make them look like a caricature of any particular group of humans to me. If you find them offensive/racist, IMO you want to find them offensive/racist. It might be healthier for society if there's no general suspicion that everything is racist (or sexist).

I'm definitely guilty of being a filthy leftist, but it is, in all honesty, the first thing that came to my mind when I first saw the models. And the fact that WHFB Hobgoblins had a 'Khan' certainly didn't help matters.

If you decide to turn a blind eye to these things there might just be as much bias in your opinion as there is in mine.

[Bodric]

52 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, and I guess this might net me some confused emojis, but I think they are quite ugly and remind me of racist stereotypes (yellowish skin, slanted eyes).

Absolutely agreed - there's some really grim yellow peril stuff here that ties into the earliest WFB "mongolian" hobgolins, which were awful. I hope that it's largely a casualty of the studio paint scheme, though - with a greener skin tone they might look a lot better. The rest of the box is really nice, though, so I'm hopeful!

[Neverchosen]

I am not great at photoshop but I overlaid some green on top of the image and overall I like the results. Barring of course my amateurish photoshop skills. I do think the one in the back turned out much better though. 


I really like the sculpt of the models and think that the GW colour scheme is not really my favourite. The problematic elements of their paint scheme make it significantly worse but even with out the association it is not a great scheme. I think even with my terrible photoshop skills this makes the models look both much better and less problematic. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Neverchosen

[HorticulusTGA]

1 hour ago, FFJump said:

I've seen mixed reactions to them. They're either you love them or you hate them. Personally, they're my favorite models from the set. I love how they look, but it might be my Chaos Dwarf bias. I'm a huge fan of their skin color too, I'm glad GW actually made a paint for them (Hobgrot Hide) because I'm painting them that way. I know the color looks like puke basically, but I like how distinct it is in a sea of green, while not being horribly out of place. It really points out hey, these aren't orruks or typical grots. I'm kind of hoping they have hobgrot wolf riders and a leader too so I could make a pure hobgrot army 

I 100% agree with you (the Gutrippaz being close second). 

And I'd really like if the "wolf riders" hinted at by our reliable rumor mongers were of the same style. The current Underworld wolf grots unit is EXCELLENT, but without any design divergences from the WFB unit of old, and with The Old World coming in a few short years, we strongly need clear design differences between AOS and TOW-WFB units.

[MitGas]

11 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I'm definitely guilty of being a filthy leftist, but it is, in all honesty, the first thing that came to my mind when I first saw the models. And the fact that WHFB Hobgoblins had a 'Khan' certainly didn't help matters.

If you decide to turn a blind eye to these things there might just be as much bias in your opinion as there is in mine.

Oh, don't worry, never thought of you as a "filthy" leftist or would've pushed you into any other political camp from one single statement (and frankly I don't care about political standings), that would be quite insane (and sadly happens all the time now - trust me, I've been there, other end of the spectrum I got plenty of very unpopular opinions around here - even got my very own fan following me around and confusing himself over my posts).

I do understand your reasoning but I really can't see it in this particular case - I think they're removed enough form the real thing to make me take offense. I'm also not sure that GW (or others that create fantasy stuff often based on real world cultures) using influences from certain historical backgrounds or cultures/groups for an unfavorable outcome (like ugly hobgoblins or brutish, horrific northmen) does necessarily contain a racist or otherwise judging statement. IMO they think the background is cool (or funny, or whatever else may apply) and repurpose it, simple as that. It doesn't mean they find the original inspiration bad just because they used it for evil and/or ugly creatures. 

And I see it all the time that things get called out for being sexist or racist when in reality you really need to warp reality around for it to be so. That's why I say it might be better for all of us to not immediately suspect and/or assume the most negative things. It's at a point where you can't even state rather neutral things because it immediately gets pushed into the "bad" direction to kill a sound argument. And to me, the most important thing is that people can freely say what they think without it being immediately censored because it rubs some the wrong way - this self-entitled moral superiority pushes people apart instead of bringing them together. 

And in that spirit: all cool and I'm not respecting your opinion any less now but personally I think you see something that doesn't have to be there. It's obviously your right to do so and I certainly don't want to paint you in a certain light because of it and actually my post wasn't meant to "call you out" in particular, even if it inadvertendly did so (sorry for that) but I just think it would be good to not assume the worst of the designers. They basically just tried to make cool hobgoblins. Stuff like that happens often - people want to do cool stuff and something about it COULD be seen in a bad light and that taints an actually good thing that came from the right spot.

[Maogrim]

And, for those who think I'm imagining things, I'd like to remind you of this guy, Ghazak Khan, who is a Hobgoblin from the olden days:

[EccentricCircle]

Yeah, the yellow colour scheme is unfortunate to say the least. If these existed in a vacuum then it wouldn't in and of itself be racist. But it doesn't. Hobgoblins in warhammer have always had a "mongolian" aesthetic, and a little of that can still be seen in the arms and armour here. Giving them a distinctly different skin tone to the other Orcs and goblins is fine, (and its certainly not an actual Asian skin tone), but it really does evoke those "yellow peril" propaganda images, and that is uncomfortable in the extreme. 

D&D has depicted goblins with that kind of skin tone in the past, perhaps even to distinguish their goblins from Paizo and GWs, but that didn't have connections to a history of fantasy counterpart cultures in the Old World and how the way the different factions fitted into that scheme of analogues wasn't always very politically correct. 

I agree they look much better green, and that's how I'll paint them if I ever get any.

(I love the Old World to bits, but it is very much a textbook example of the role of Orientalism in the application of Fantasy Counterpart Cultures. But that's a whole other essay and not appropriate for this thread!)

Edit:

I'm certainly not saying that this was deliberate racism on the part of the painters. I'm sure that they had the best of intentions. I'd always far rather presume incompetence than malice.

The question though isn't just about the intent of the creator, but whether it causes harm. It certainly makes me somewhat uncomfortable, and based on the last few posts I'm not alone in that. If it makes folks of mongolian heritage feel unwelcome in the hobby then that would be a problem. Warhammer is for everyone after all.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by EccentricCircle