A discussion on Forbidden Power

[Peter (Age of Miniatures)]

Greetings Sigmar dudes and dudettes,

So I am not seeing that much chatter on the Forbidden Power supplement (at least post-release), so wanted to make a little discussion thread.

What do you think about Forbidden power? Did you decide to skip this one or get it?

I decided to purchase the box, even though I was a bit on the fence about it.

My thoughts:

1. The new allegiances are for Order and Death (armies I do not play), so that was not really for me. On the other hand, I am stoked about the possibility that new "mixed allegiances" can pop up in supplements (and maybe white dwarf?!) in the future.
2. I find the rules for mercenaries intriguing. I think I would do something with that if, for example, it was Khardron Overlords and not Fyreslayers you could take. Really looking forward to whatever "Mercenary Companies" we get in the new Generals Handbook.
3. At first, I was lukewarm on the Endless Spells. After having thought about some more, having more different Endless Spells means it is more likely that I will take a big caster package and endless spells (because you need enough endless spells to throw out there for them to be effective).
4. I was quite pleased with the campaign module. The biggest strength of it being the artefacts that grown on power the longer you get in the campaign. The battleplans seem cool enough.
5. The engine was a bit of a miss for me. 100 points seem too expensive for an effect that is random. But the model was cool, so will just use it as terrain and in narrative battles.
6. Working my way through the lore, but that seems decent as always. The Soul Wars chapter is, for me, much more intriguing than the Realmgate Wars. 

 

Contrary to Malign Sorcery, I do not feel like this is a "must-buy" expansion. Too much of it some people will likely never use. On the other hand, that might be a good thing. Too many "must-buy- things" will get people complaining about "being forced" to buy stuff.

Before I bought it, I found it hard to get good information on how the mercenary system worked, how the campaign was constructed and so on. These are the kinds of things that very much would inform my decision on whether or not to buy it. After buying it I decided to write an (quite extensive) article explaining the rules in the book. I hope it will help some of you still on the fence.

 

 

[Kramer]

Nice write up! 

For me the endless spells are cool, but most likely will see so little play I aint buying it for that. 

The Order allegiance is cool as I own some models of three of the factions included.

The campaign and lore would be my main reason to buy it though. I just don't see myself playing it in the next two/three months. So for me i'm not buying it until I see a chance to play it and by then, i'm most likely getting just the book second hand I guess. 

As a whole, I think GW really undersold the box and maybe that's on purpose, maybe they were trying something new. But for me it had none of the hype of Malign Portents. 

[El Syf]

Hopefully my copy should arrive today. Purchased it mostly for the lore as there wasn't an accompanying Novel released, which is all I wanted really.

The campaign also seems a lot more thought out with the awakened artefacts being quite a nice touch. Mercenaries are of no interest to me to be fair.

Endless spells seem a bit more thought out with quite a few of them doing something other than X amount of mortal wounds, which seemed rather a waste of the idea.

[Greyshadow]

Being focused on Skirmish I haven’t even got around to getting Malign Sorcery yet! Although, I may be picking it up tomorrow morning! :)

I am not sure I will get around to using the content in Forbidden Power any time soon.

The new lore is the biggest draw for me but at the asking price I am not sure I can justify purchasing it for that.

[Redmanphill]

I bought it. For €70 or so that it cost me I think it is worth it.

The lore was fine. I hate the constant recapping of the past but I understand why it is there. Nothing really was revealed which is annoying and it was a bit too much of a battle report. I'd prefer these things to be described more as a campaign rather than a single huge battle. The Stromvaults themselves are a good addition to the Realms.

The terrain piece was nice and even if I won't use it in my army it'll look good on my table.

The spells are again lovely and nice to have. I don't know if I will really use them either but it is nice to have the options.

The campaign is okay, easy to run and organise for sure but it could have done with another layer on top. I like the fact that it brings in all the contents of the box.  I love the artefacts, they aren't totally balanced but for narrative play they are good.

[Dead Scribe]

The only thing remotely worth getting is the boat spell.  That isn't enough to justify buying the box for me outright, I will just find the boat spell for sale somewhere.  Everything else is either not going to be seen in tournaments anyway or is not strong enough to really warrant taking to tournaments.

[PJetski]

It's... okay I guess? Seems to be very forgettable and unnecessary.

I don't hate it or regret my purchase but It seems like a rushed and/or half-baked product. There are endless spells... but only 4... one of them is literally a piece of scenery from Underworlds duplicated.

Mercenaries are a cool system but there are only 2 companies? Seems like the kind of thing that could have been added through the GHB or its own supplement. The Lethisian Defenders allegiance is really underwhelming. I don't think anyone will ever use the Penumbral Engine outside of Narrative Play; it could have been more useful if it cost 0 points and replaced faction scenery.

The campaign with 8 battleplans is my favourite part of the whole book. The battleplans are great and I could see myself using some of the pitched battleplans for tournaments, but I doubt many people will buy FP so the battleplans will probably fade into obscurity unless they get reprinted in the GHB... and that will further reduce the purpose of this box.

[Dead Scribe]

 but I doubt many people will buy FP so the battleplans will probably fade into obscurity unless they get reprinted in the GHB... and that will further reduce the purpose of this box.

Heavy emphasis on this.  The battleplans I've seen seem cool but if no one wants to buy the book, they won't be used anyway.  Most of this could have been GHB material.  Not enough for matched play to warrant using unfortunately no matter how cool the intention was.

[Qrow]

I am very happy with the Legion of Grief, though there is a desperate need for an errata to resolve the confusion surrounding it.

I am really enjoying the soulscream bridge, it gives you to ability to move a big slow blob of units onto an objective turn one, with all their support units going as well. The horrorghast is great, but I play LoG so bravery debuffs are huge for me. Not too fond of the soulseeker personally; wholly with 3" is not much room and you can only take one unit, I prefer the bridge. The shards are cheap, could pair well with shackles to slow down a fast army.

The campaign looks great and my group are all keen to give it a shot, I honestly wish the level 1 version of the campaign artifacts could be taken similarly to malign sorcery artifacts; let them never power up but still be usable in matched play.

The scenery is terrible. I like the look of the model itself, but wholly within your territory, random abilities, both players can benifit from it and a 100 point cost? I can't see it being taken over simply buying two command points. I can only wonder why they gave it a cost at all, I assumed it would have a rule that allowed it to be taken for free unless you were already bringing another scenery piece.

Maybe all scenery pieces will now come with costs? Seems like a great way to make a lot of people angry.

[Sleboda]

16 minutes ago, Qrow said:

Maybe all scenery pieces will now come with costs? Seems like a great way to make a lot of people angry.

You're right about that. If the skull altar, for instance, were not free, I'd never take it. Since it is free and helps Slaughterpriests, I always take a Slaughterpriest as well, which I would not take otherwise. That makes two, sometimes three (two priests), models I've purchased and painted on which I would never have spent time and money ... were it not for the altar being free.

If it starts costing points - a precious commodity in my Blades of Khorne lists - I'll drop it instantly, making the time and money I spent on all three models a total waste.

 

So yeah, again, you're spot on.

[SwampHeart]

Just a few quick bullet points from me:
 

• Enjoyed the campaign story even if not particularly relevant to forces I collect
• Love the campaign system they have laid out, very inspirational for writing narrative stuff for my group of friends
• I dislike this as a mechanism for the delivery of Endless Spells. I wish they'd release the book and terrain separate from the Endless Spells. 
• The terrain piece will likely never be used as the terrain feature but it does add for a nice piece to add to my collection\

Overall I was pretty pleased with the purchase. I did buy it from my FLGS with a discount (and using bonus money from work) so it was kind of a negligible cost for me, had I had to buy it MSRP or out of my usual hobby budget I probably would have pushed it back. 

 

[Mutton]

I think it's perfect for Narrative gamers or TO's looking to start a new campaign. For regular, matched play folks? Doesn't hold much value.

1) Point costs on the spells and engine are bloated, I simply don't see anyone taking them outside of funsies (like the purple sun). It's a shame, a cheaper engine could have meant armies without terrain features could have a generic one, all they had to do was say so in the rules.

2) The two allegiances (Lethis and Grief) are either completely worthless or pretty decent. It sucks that the Lethis allegiance is just bad, I would have enjoyed buying some scattered faction mini's. So basically, only helpful if you play Nighthaunt.

3) Some neat events, good storytelling, but no new reveals in the lore, other than Teclis and Tyrion are still dicks.

4) Mercenaries are...fine, I guess? I'm glad they aren't game-changing, but I also don't know what the purpose behind them is supposed to be.
5) It's price...$90 for less models than Malign Sorcery, which was $75. That is a PREMIUM price for a handful of spells you may or may not use. You're on your way to buying a faction's centerpiece model for the price of this box. I've always said, GW is totally allowed to price their products how they want, but the market is still going to decide whether it's the RIGHT price for what you get. For people with a restricted budget, I can't ever see recommending this over, say, an army's SC box, or Malign Sorcery.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mutton

[valenswift]

For the first time ever i read the Lore before the the rules and I really enjoyed the story behind the Stormvaults and and am genuinely intrigued by the cliffhanger ending

Agree with general feelings here about the endless spells and legions being ok

Penumbral engine will probably only be used by my group when it's free with the battleplan,

I think the campaign looks interesting and we'll be starting it very soon.

Mercenaries seem ok too and am looking for more companies in the GHB as my group play a mix of narrative and matched play i don't think they'll be too game breaking.

[JPjr]

Also remember the box is just the start rather than the culmination of FP. Looks like it will be the main non-Warcry focus for AoS throughout the summer with more stories, battle plans and the like  to expand upon the narrative/campaign. 

Anyway just nice to have something that is distinctly narrative play focussed, since outside of internet forums and in the real world I don't know, and have never met a single person that plays "competitively".

 

[Carnelian]

20 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

Nothing really was revealed which is annoying and it was a bit too much of a battle report. I'd prefer these things to be described more as a campaign rather than a single huge battle. The Stromvaults themselves are a good addition to the Realms.

The terrain piece was nice and even if I won't use it in my army it'll look good on my table.

The spells are again lovely and nice to have. I don't know if I will really use them either but it is nice to have the options. 

I agree completely with this except I really enjoyed the recapping of the lore. I loved how the creation of and hiding of the stormvaults were built into the past. 

I did feel let down by the current events part though - the description of the battle and siege felt dull and lost the fake-history feel and instead became a tedious list of "and then x hit Y".

Also it was a bit frustrating that they left it sooo vague about what was in the vault. I feel like the entire story was already spoiled on warhammer community - I kept waiting for the part of the story or artwork that I was not expecting and it didn't come. 

[Greasygeek]

Im very pleased with Forbidden Power.

Keep in mind that I play Nighthaunt  and have been wondering since day one why they couldn’t build a bravery debuff army. Now they can.

However I also very much enjoy the Soul Wars way more than the Realmgate Wars. Even without the Nighthaunt boost I would have bought the box anyway. Love the story about Stormvaults and Sigmar once again showing his true selffish colours!

The scenery will see good use when we play the campiaign, but I also expect it to be used only as obstacles once the campaign is done. 

Also a very big fan of the extra scenery rules for stormvaults and the fact that we finally got some scenery that can be mixed and matched. Am already planning on mixing the mausoleum set with the new ones to make spooky shyishian stormvaults and tombs.

 

[InSaint]

Lauchon the Soulseeker might be a meta spell for competitive play.

This is an additional 12" of extra movement to grab objectives or simply smash face on turn 1. You can fit 50 models of 25mm bases or 30 models of 32mm bases. There are already 3rd party deployment trays available for purchase online with this specific purpose in mind. (Strange GW products team didn't see the opportunity in selling this separately... lol)

[Dead Scribe]

The boat spell is already seeing a lot of play in our competitive meta.  Its the only thing from Forbidden Power that is being used.  Its too good to not use.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah it was a hard pass for me - the only thing of any interest to me was the boat, and I'm not paying $150 for that.

A campaign featuring armies I don't use, rules for armies I don't use and scenery I won't use.  Too much of a tax for a single endless spell I'm interested in.

My plan was to buy the boat on eBay, but nobody seems to be splitting either.  There is literally one guy splitting that I can see, and it looks like the boat sold out immediately and he's currently left holding everything else.

I do know one or two people who've bought FP, but that's out of quite a large circle of wargamers.  Takeup from what I've seen has been pretty minimal and certainly far lower than Malign Sorcery. 

Looks like it's largely sinking without a trace from what I can see, but I do think you'll see the boat being plucked out and used competitively.

Edited June 3, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[PlasticCraic]

The campaign does sound good though, based on what people in here are saying - although this one wasn't for me due to the forces involved, hopefully future releases will be, and I'm glad people are enjoying it.  

[InSaint]

39 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah it was a hard pass for me - the only thing of any interest to me was the boat, and I'm not paying $150 for that.

My plan was to buy the boat on eBay, but nobody seems to be splitting either.  There is literally one guy splitting that I can see, and it looks like the boat sold out immediately and he's currently left holding everything else.

Looks like it's largely sinking without a trace from what I can see, but I do think you'll see the boat being plucked out and used competitively.

Unlike Malign Sorcery, each endless spell has its own spruce set. So there is a chance GW might release individual spell for sales down the road.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah that would be cool.

One question I would have actually, is how well / easily the campaign could be adapted to other armies?  Would it be worth looking at for a group who don't use the armies actually featured?

I do find GW generally does a great job on that side of things - playing through the original starter set campaign, and then switching sides, was still some of the best fun I've had in the game.

[Arael]

4 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah that would be cool.

One question I would have actually, is how well / easily the campaign could be adapted to other armies?  Would it be worth looking at for a group who don't use the armies actually featured?

I do find GW generally does a great job on that side of things - playing through the original starter set campaign, and then switching sides, was still some of the best fun I've had in the game.

You can use whatever army you want to play the campaign. 

Battleplan, campaign rule and leveling artifact are not bound to any specific army. 

[PlasticCraic]

20 hours ago, Arael said:

You can use whatever army you want to play the campaign. 

Battleplan, campaign rule and leveling artifact are not bound to any specific army. 

That's great, thanks for the info.  I might see if I can track down someone who bought it and who might want to play through it.

[RuneBrush]

Thanks @Peter (Age of Miniatures) for the thread!  Think you're right that there hasn't been a massive amount of discussion on this set yet.  

My own thinking is that Forbiddden Power sits fairly firmly as a narrative expansion, it advances the Soul Wars story line onto the next phase and adds in a number of thematic army options in the form of two new allegiances that fought at Lake Lethis, Mercenaries who fought alongside those armies, realm rules for Stygxx, along with a campaign system with pretty cool levelling artefacts (representing items found within the Stormvaults).

The endless spells are much more interesting than the ones found in Malign Sorcery, providing various movement and bravery shenanigans.  I'm sure there are some interesting combinations for things that we've not yet thought of too!  Let's also not forget the sheet of tokens - including better gravesite markers!  The penumbral engine is a bit of an odd one, it was originally designed to be part of the new scenery kits and it feels a bit shoehorned in - although completely thematic and features in some of the battleplans.  My own view is that if you and your opponent fancy fielding one between you, just put it in rather than trying to justify the points.

If you pick up this box purely for the matched play elements, you're going to be disappointed as you're limiting yourself to a few endless spells and two new allegiances (which you'll at most use one) - let's be honest you're unlikely to play the matched play battleplans in the book.

For me, the unsung hero of this book is the campaign system which works providing you've got four or more friends to play with.  There are 4 narrative and 4 matched play battleplans and the campaign will provide at least 7 games at the absolute least if used out of the box (or 12 games at the longest).  The levelling artefacts and the army list limitations (the artefact "belongs" to one character who must be fielded in each game) add new twists into games and hopefully will encourage people to run campaigns.

From a popularity aspect, I envisage this to be above the often forgotten Firestorm & Malign Portents expansions, but below Malign Sorcery.  It's not game changing, but could provide a bit of interest if your local gaming group are fed up of playing the same battleplans each week.