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Walrustaco

Which Faction is next on the Chopping Block?

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It's grim to think about, but it's something I find myself thinking about as a Gutbusters player a lot recently. 

Adepticon had one seed of hope for me: A chaos ogor. Tenuous at best but it's a nugget I'm holding to.

What signs are tell-tale signs that a faction is going to go the way of the gitmob grots and the greenskins? How do we collectors of Gutbusters, Dispossessed and Aelves know that our collections aren't going to end up useless? While Khorne gets what's basically it's third battletome (meaning no offence) we're stuck wondering if we ever will.

I've seen folks over at the Dispossessed chat saying they regret ever collecting their army. It kind of hit home, because I've felt that same way about my ogors. But we shouldn't have to feel that way and I really wish we had some certainty to let us know where we stand.

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There are no hints nor secret ways to know save for getting hold of one of the higher ups at GW and holding them hostage to get answers ;)

And that's the honest truth - just as we don't get rumour and hints at what will stay we get little of what will leave or change or how that change might be. We jsut have to wait. 

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It depends what you mean. Warscrolls for gitmob, greenstone, brettonians and Tomb kings are still on the app. Points for all those armies are still in warscroll builder. A player took a tomb kings list to the recent gt heat. 

So in terms of being to play your army at events,  you are fine. 

Regarding future updates,  models, etc there are some indicators. 

1- If you have a battletome now,  you will almost certainly get new stuff eventually. 

2- If you have allegiance abilities in the current ghb,  you will almost certainly get more updates in the future.

Interestingly six of the armies with allegiance abilities in ghb 2018 aren't part of their own battletome. That leaves some space for some new armies to take a step up.

I think that ghb 2019 will be telling. Hopefully another 6 or so armies get allegiance abilities when the new book comes out. 

 

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I'd be worried about normal dwarves, humans and elves at this point.

I hope that a new beastclaw raiders will pull in all those ogre models into something bigger.

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I am a lover of guts, and I feel they are not going anywhere. So take heart good @Walrustaco

Unlike greenskinz and Gitmob, Ogre's arn't really redundant. Also, unlike Greenskinz  the Gutbusters got a faction focus, something that our squatted rivals never received. 

 

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I don’t think any more factions will be going away. Gitmob grots and plain greenskins were hardly ever mentioned in any of the lore. The remaining factions have all been mentioned at least some. The current sculpts/factions I would worry about are some of the Aelves mostly. The dark and high elf styles I’m feeling will get redone, not sure about the wood elves though. Regular dwarfs, humans, and oglers are not going anywhere. People just complain too much honestly, I mean come on poor you your army hasn’t gotten updated yet, waah. It will happen just give it time, honestly people talk about this too much. Sorry for the rant btw. 

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The only one I would worry about now is Swifthawk agents, specifically because half of their army is already phased out

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Posted (edited)

Assuming my theory is true, no other faction will go away. (except any OOP models. Sorry swifthawks!)

 

That mega aelf army is still making my brain hurt though....

 

 

Edited by kenshin620

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

Regular dwarfs, humans, and oglers are not going anywhere. People just complain too much honestly, I mean come on poor you your army hasn’t gotten updated yet, waah. It will happen just give it time, honestly people talk about this too much. Sorry for the rant btw. 

That's a bit harsh. This is a thread about armies potentially being removed (e.g. Darkling Covens, Swifthawk, etc.), rather than being about "safe" armies that are overdue an update (e.g. Seraphon, BCR, etc.).

You really think Darkling Covens (etc.) are definitely a "it will happen... give it time..." situation? I mean they might survive or even be updated, but will seems strong given that we have now had four factions moved to OOP.

If generic Orcs and Goblins weren't safe, why would generic Elves, Dwarfs and Humans be safe?

Edited by Kyriakin
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7 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

That's a bit harsh. This is a thread about armies potentially being removed (e.g. Darkling Covens, Swifthawk, etc.), rather than being about "safe" armies that are overdue an update (e.g. Seraphon, BCR, etc.).

You really think Darkling Covens (etc.) are definitely a "it will happen... give it time..." situation? I mean they might survive or even be updated, but will seems strong given that we have now had four factions moved to OOP.

If generic Orcs and Goblins weren't safe, why would generic Elves, Dwarfs and Humans be safe?

No I don’t think Darkling Covens will get an update, I meant that the high elves and dark elves are going to be new things. I think about 50% of the current Aelves section will be removed and it will be put into a couple new armies like malerion and telcis elves, and some sort of wood elf thing. The reason generic orcs and goblins weren’t safe are because they were never mentioned in the lore, GW didn’t want them anymore. Generic humans, dwarfs, and elves are all mentioned a lot. 

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2 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

It's grim to think about, but it's something I find myself thinking about as a Gutbusters player a lot recently. 

Adepticon had one seed of hope for me: A chaos ogor. Tenuous at best but it's a nugget I'm holding to.

What signs are tell-tale signs that a faction is going to go the way of the gitmob grots and the greenskins? How do we collectors of Gutbusters, Dispossessed and Aelves know that our collections aren't going to end up useless? While Khorne gets what's basically it's third battletome (meaning no offence) we're stuck wondering if we ever will.

I've seen folks over at the Dispossessed chat saying they regret ever collecting their army. It kind of hit home, because I've felt that same way about my ogors. But we shouldn't have to feel that way and I really wish we had some certainty to let us know where we stand.

I hear you mate. I started High Elves when AoS released and i got a Spire of Dawn set. Since that i have aquired almost 6k High Elves.

 

This is my take on it, based on my observations:

- I bet Dispossessed are getting a release.  The several pieces on the new Goblins sets indicate so. A DoK like release would fix then on the spot. Their public is also very loyal.

- Wanderers are on the same boat.  Couple models and a book and they are set.

- High/Dark Elf are probably going to be merged into the new Tyrion/ Malerion groups. Models from Spire of Dawn, just like their skaven counterparts are probably going to be phased out unless they are still beeing produced (Archmage, for example). People got too much caught on the "angelical" word just like they got the "cthullu elves" for the Idoneth. So far we know for a fact that those Elves live in Uglu and Hysh. Slaneesh BT will probably shed light on it.

- I belive free peoples are gona get a Bt and merge microfactions.

About ogors, i dont know. My knowledge about the faction is very limited, but my take is: Gw isnt tossing away plastics if it can avoid. Heck, they didnt even remove Skaven Finecast!

We are the last ones, but i think Gw will get there. And then release Settra and Tks. Just because.

 

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Posted (edited)

For the record, I suspect that the Gutbusters are safe - albeit with sculpts being replaced (but like-for-like, so current resin models would still be OK).

However, I think BCR may end up becoming more of a "core" faction, and move further away from them.

Every fantasy setting usually has a fire/magma, forest, sky/heavens, water and ice/snow-themed "thing", and I can see BCR taking the role of the latter.

Edited by Kyriakin
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If you want to read tea leaves I think the AOS2 picture of each grand alliance is promising.

Order: Fyreslayers pictured in the background and Fryeslayers have been announced, SCE in the front and they have an AOS2 book. Chaos: 4 gods: Nurgle and Khorne have AOS2 books, Slaanesh is getting theirs. Death: FEC zombie dragon in the background, LoN skeleton and soul blight in the front, both AOS2 books.

Destruction: Moonclan in the back... GUTBUSTERS in the front!!!

My guess is we will see Tzeentch and Gutbusters by summers end.

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I know that almost every elf or dwarf player in aos are players of fantasy playing with his years old fantasy army in aos.

 

But gw must have in mind that some players as me are new to the hobby.i started to play 2 years ago with the stormcast big boxes(stormcast vs khirne and bligthwar).

Then when they released the firestorm boxes i got two tempest eye boxes and sold the stormcast.

Then dispossesed were a playable army,werent top tier but could win games. And also seeing as gw released a new  product(tempest eye box) i tougth was 100% safe and i started my dispossesed army.

 

Now 2 years have gone and dispossesed are the worst(seeing tournaments data) army of aos2 and now im not sure ir gw gonna release any battletome for us or only continue with those gh alegiances. Even i have fear to be removed.

 

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3 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

 all finecast models are not safe.

 

Unless it's skaven.

In fact they still have metal models.  😜

 

But yea honestly other than Gitmob Grots and Greenskinz, all other factions are acknowledged in the official AoS website/faction previews. Whether they're going to pull off more Beasts of Chaos ior do something radically different is up in the air.

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My gut feeling is that they are going to heavily trim or replace kits in the Aelf range whenever they do something with those old ranges.  AoS currently has 2 full Aelf factions - 3 if we consider Sylvaneth although they are mainly fae tree demons now.  If they do indeed create light and shadow elf races then that puts us at 4-5 Aelf armies without the generic faction.  I honestly just don’t see GW going that far in on a ton of separate Aelf armies.

My hunch is that they will move an existing kit or two into the light/shadow factions or else resculpt some of those boxes to better fit the new aesthetic while people can still use the old kits if they want (same as old squigs & trolls).  And a trimmed down core of Aelf kits will become either an Aelf combined tome or mixed into some Free Cities army book.

But this is pure prognostication and likely to be wrong.

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funny thing though is that Gitmob got their biggest lore acknowledgement in the Gloomspite tome which was the same time they got phased out. In fact they acknowledge them as one of the three subfactions of grots in the mortal realm. they where grots who chased after the Sun and decided to live in the plans and steeples areas unlike the Gloomspites.

my only reasoning for this is maybe the Gnoblars are going to be changed lorewise into the Gitmobs when they do a Gutbuster update

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3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

 

Unless it's skaven.

In fact they still have metal models.  😜

 

In fact around 50-more% of our range is made out of metal/failcast or looks like a mutated monkey.

1 hour ago, novakai said:

my only reasoning for this is maybe the Gnoblars are going to be changed lorewise into the Gitmobs when they do a Gutbuster update

Could be and would be very interesting to see that happen

 

 

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Like others, I would agree that at least some of the aelf ranges are going to get phased out at some point, but it's difficult to say what would happen without inside knowledge.

My gut instinct is that Wanderers will be supported and the other kits will either be folded into them, folded into a new aelf faction, or discontinued.

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3 hours ago, novakai said:

my only reasoning for this is maybe the Gnoblars are going to be changed lorewise into the Gitmobs when they do a Gutbuster update

Could see this happening for sure.

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The thing underlying this all is the generation of intellectual property that GW can clearly call their own.  AoS was, like it or not, a direct response to their losing the Chapterhouse studios court case a few years back.  Elves, Dwarfs and Orcs are all too generic for them to call their own IP hence the diversification into Fyreslayers, DoK etc.  I really really doubt you will ever see a generic Elf or Dwarf list ever again.  This makes me sad.

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1 hour ago, EvilMonkee said:

The thing underlying this all is the generation of intellectual property that GW can clearly call their own.  AoS was, like it or not, a direct response to their losing the Chapterhouse studios court case a few years back.  Elves, Dwarfs and Orcs are all too generic for them to call their own IP hence the diversification into Fyreslayers, DoK etc.

I suspect that Chapterhouse was only part of the reason.  Without going too far into "that" discussion, WHFB had become stagnant and had a very high cost of entry to the game.  I think that whole court case was a big wake up call and forced GW to really up their game.

1 hour ago, EvilMonkee said:

I really really doubt you will ever see a generic Elf or Dwarf list ever again.

As a dwarf fan myself, I'm actually not too upset.  I think the burly stoic ale drinking Dwarf and aloof elegant Elf stereotypes have been done to death in the past and much prefer the fresh approach that is being taken by GW.  Don't get me wrong it's great when the odd one or two classic stereotypes appears in a story, but from an army perspective much prefer the new oddball styles.

That said, I also am looking forward to when we start to get more Legends warscrolls, I can see that once we hit a certain point, that people will add their own points and start playing old school armies but with the AoS ruleset.

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GW has do to something with the Aelves we all know that - they've far too many subfactions to run them all as mini-armies and support them long term; whilst combining would be the most ideal approach evne if they have to ret-con or change or evolve parts of their established storyline to make it work. I hope its more the latter than the former as they've some really outstanding and creative models and themes that I'd hate to outright lose to the genre and game. 

 

Also people keep claiming its about GW moving away from generic and getting "unique IPs" but I just fail to actually see that in what they've done. Heck lets look at Slaanesh's release where the new Demon Prince is basically modelled after  Xerxes from the 300 film, complete with a maniacal female(?) assistant dancing around; or lets look at Daughters of Khaine where they've got harpies and Medusa. If anything GW isn't moving away from established IPs; but I think they are shifting from a purely Tolkien inspired structure to one that is drawing from other Mythologies around the world. Right now there's clearly a very strong Greek theme coming through. 

Melusai for Daughters of Khaine as a concept are 100% NOT protect-able. In fact not a single model GW makes "in concept" can be copyright protected. The actual design can be and the NAME can be, but nothing stops anyone making their own winged female with a spear model. Or their own half snake half human female with a spear; and heck Hollywood films have several medusa with bows already. 

 

I think what we are seeing has nothing to do with copyright, save for the names, and everything do with GW opening up their fantasy setting to a more modern age. They are drawing from other sources other than Tolkien's Middle Earth and Norse Mythology; they are taking advantage of 30 odd years of maturity in the fantasy market which certainly over the last 20 or so years has erupted in popularity and diversity. 

Things we have lost like Bretoniannas and Tomb Kings were lost almost purely due to sales performance AND under a different management team with a totally different approach to how AoS was going to be marketed and sold to the public. AoS has had huge evolutions in its already short lifespan. 

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Phil Kelly, lead background writer for Age of Sigmar loves Ogres (and why wouldn’t he!).  My gut feeling is that the Gutbusters are safe (sorry about the pun).

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