AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[Arkhanist]

10 hours ago, Batch said:

If you need a rock solid wall Ironbrakers are what you want, buffed by the a Runelord no one is getting past.

You want a gunline? Irondrakes then have a line or two of Longbeards defending them and giving them the reroll of 1 wounds.

So basically you're saying I need both depending upon which army build I want to run at the time ;)

I had another dig through my old boxes in the loft, and lucked out in finding 20 of the previous gen metal ironbreakers, which definitely still fit the part, especially if i give them the current ironbreaker shields. My old metal warriors are *really* old and small with short beards, but some I think are maybe re-usable with some greenstuffing. I've also found a chunk of the just squatted plastic warriors I didn't even know I had, mostly filling out my quarrelers. So I've ordered a bunch of longbeard heads for a grand sum of £5, and will basically be fitting the old plastic warrior bodies with current ironbreaker arms sans shoulderpads (chainmail fits!). Just need some suitably longbeard shields, maybe scibor, maybe some old ones with a runesymbol.

So that gives me 30 hammerers, 30 irondrakes, 20 classic ironbreakers with new celtic knot shields, at least 16 converted longbeard warriors with better weapons and proper beards, whatever metal oldies I can give hair extensions and maybe an axe upgrade to that fit in, plus 20 miners which I'm definitely going to keep to run as longbeards with doublehanded weapons. That should give me plenty of heavy infantry options to (re)paint!

Edited October 11, 2019 by Arkhanist

[Arathorn185]

So I am super hyped by cities of sigmar; but I am running into an issue. I wanted to retro chivalric knights, Dark Riders, 4+ save now and being knightly Armed  And then I saw Shadow Warrior rules and went . Now I have the issue of Assassin are  and the cities themselves have little synergy with Shadow Blades beside a couple Command Traits. Secondly I want a horseback or cavalry hero to keep up with my Dark Riders.  But I cannot find a good option or unit. Any suggestions? Or help?

[Myrdin]

Allright, thanks for claryfying the realm thing for me guys. I am sure I wasnt the only one confused about this so hopefully someone else can also benefit from that info
On another note, but still tied to the realms things. > So if my city is not Aqshy or Ghyran, what artefacts and traits can I still access, since those from the City are specific to that realm ?

I cant use the general handbook ones, since I am playing Allegiance Cities of Sigmar, not GAOrder ?

I know its a noobish question, but up till now I only played BoC in AoS, and always took Allegiance BoC, never the GAChaos one. So I am not 100% on how this works, and googling it most of the times people ask about number of artifacts and multiple of the same, but never about this.

So if my City is not Aqshy or Ghyrian, I am not able to take ANY artifact at all, bar the Malign sorcery ones, which are tied to realms.... and if we dont play a game with realms, I get no artifact at all. Is that a correct conclusion ? (please say no.... that would totally suck)

[Gecktron]

49 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:

@Mjolnertf

Why shouldn't every unit in the book be useful?  These are supposedly experienced games designers and they charge a premium price for their product.

It's not as if they can't get similar units to work in other armies. Let's face it, the game is pretty basic as it is, it really shouldn't be a challenge to get these things ironed out before the book even goes to print.

There are over 50 warscrolls in this book, 7 allegiances and you can include units from the gigantic Stormcasts faction plus Kharadrons and Slyvaneth. Balancing a game with so many moving parts is very hard and the inital FEC and DoK release has shown how easy it is to break the game. Its better to play it safe than to repeat the whole Grundstock Thunderer debacle. 

[overtninja]

It's helpful to remember that the units and warscrolls that the players on this forum do not consider potent or useful may not be seen that way in different meta environments, including what is likely the enclosed meta of the design and testing team of the game. Sometimes things like high armor and high movement are prized highly and costed as such, but their low damage ends up making them unappealing. Sometimes shifts in the overall meta with different book releases end up making units that were previously not interesting or appealing much more so.

This is not to say that there are not some duds in the list for the time being, certainly some units have more appealing counterparts within the same book - but for a book that has basically unified 9 or so factions under the same banner, the book does a surprisingly good job of fitting everything in a workable way, without too much overlap.

I honestly think this book is a good middle-road battletome - it's not the newest filth, and it's not bottom-barrel, and it accommodates a vast array of potential modeling projects, existing collections, and list-building options, more so than possibly any other book as yet released.

[Gwendar]

24 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

On another note, but still tied to the realms things. > So if my city is not Aqshy or Ghyran, what artefacts and traits can I still access, since those from the City are specific to that realm ?

You would have the traits\artifacts from the City you choose (so 3 from each).. but in CoS it must be from a given realm, giving you access to that realms artifacts as well. The City you choose and it's traits\artifacts is separate from the realm the city must be from; that just gives you the additional artifacts from that realm on top of the 3 from the City.

You're kinda tying the 2 things together again 😉, no worries.

[overtninja]

@Arathorn185 There aren't any good 'normal' mounted options, but if you are open to griffon generals or Stormcasts riding beasties, those could work quite well.

@Myrdin As far as the rules go, you can model your dudes however, but they MUST have a city keyword, and then use the rules and traits for that city. The option for a generic city doesn't exist - which is a sore spot for many folks here and elsewhere, from what I've seen.

You've still got the artefacts and traits from your chosen city, and given that most battalions aren't that appealing for CoS armies, you'll probably only need the one artefact anyway. If you want a 'generic' city, you might be served well by Hammerhal, which is the biggest, can be in two realms, and offers good middle-road traits, and would easily let you field any sort of force you like and justify it adequately (if you feel compelled to).

Personally, I'm hoping that future products/rules will be released down the road that provide rules for different cities in other mortal realms - maybe as part of the ongoing linear narrative that AoS sports. Here's hoping!

[Arathorn185]

Any thoughts on what city you’d run with shadowblades?

[Double Misfire]

1 hour ago, Arathorn185 said:

So I am super hyped by cities of sigmar; but I am running into an issue. I wanted to retro chivalric knights, Dark Riders, 4+ save now and being knightly Armed  And then I saw Shadow Warrior rules and went . Now I have the issue of Assassin are  and the cities themselves have little synergy with Shadow Blades beside a couple Command Traits. Secondly I want a horseback or cavalry hero to keep up with my Dark Riders.  But I cannot find a good option or unit. Any suggestions? Or help?

Whack a Gryph-Hound next to your knights on a larger base and call them Demigryph Knights. Alternatively mercenary Blood Knights. I've written a whole guide about it:

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/09/no-substitute-discontinued-units-in.html

[Myrdin]

24 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

You would have the traits\artifacts from the City you choose (so 3 from each).. but in CoS it must be from a given realm, giving you access to that realms artifacts as well. The City you choose and it's traits\artifacts is separate from the realm the city must be from; that just gives you the additional artifacts from that realm on top of the 3 from the City.

You're kinda tying the 2 things together again 😉, no worries.

I am sorry to be a bother, and thank you for answering

Would it be to much to ask for an example sample of a non Aqshy/Ghyrian city build army ? No need to fiddle with the points, rather is mostly for me to fully understand how it clicks together, especially for characters and artifacts/traits, due to the line in your comment that I highlighted.

So you could have, lets say a Tempest Eye City, but you choose to set it in Azyr. That means you can use Azyr artifacts, but no the 3 ones designated for Tempest Eye in the CoS book. Correct ?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Myrdin

[Arathorn185]

18 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Whack a Gryph-Hound next to your knights on a larger base and call them Demigryph Knights. Alternatively mercenary Blood Knights. I've written a whole guide about it:

https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/09/no-substitute-discontinued-units-in.html

Just so we are clear; I am quite clear I actually hapoy with Dark Riders rules and using them as my basis for my “Knight” army. Which is gonna be slightly lore derived from s contradicfon about how their knights yet they don’t Well proudly do knight things hide in shadows and use “coward” tactics. I just need a hero to run with them to pop my command abilities and to look cool while doing so. Also because I would like for one squad to be my leader Retinue  

[Gwendar]

@Myrdin No worries, I've seen the same topics come up elsewhere so I know it's confusing to some people. 

So if you get into your warscroll app of choice (let's say GW's Azyr list builder), you have an option to pick your Realm. Per your example, Tempest Eye must be from Aqshy, you can't make it from Azyr. Once you picked Aqshy for that selection, you would have access to all of the Tempest Eye Artifacts (and Traits, of course) and you would have access to the Aqshy artifacts.. you get both, not just one or the other.

And just to re-clarify, this will have no impact on where your Battlemages come from nor what realm your Hurricanum\Luminark are in for the +'s... but I think you have that cleared up already.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Gwendar

[overtninja]

39 minutes ago, Arathorn185 said:

Any thoughts on what city you’d run with shadowblades?

ALL OF THEM

Seriously, they are probably one of the best units in the whole army, for versatility, offensive power, deep-striking, and mind-gaming your opponent. All that for 110 points is excellent.

As an aside, has anyone considered using Gryph-hounds as their retinue? Those doggos have 3 wounds each and come in groups of 6 for 140 - with 18 wounds! A group of 12 would give you a 36-wound retinue! They don't have a save, but that's hardly a problem when you have that many wounds imo. Also, they are fantastic chaff, because they can block, fight, and then possibly run away before things hit them, and get out of combat - or at least before more than 1 thing hits them.

I don't own any myself, being as I'm not a Stormcast player, but almost any army can benefit from a squad of good doggos.

Edited October 11, 2019 by overtninja

[Arathorn185]

I don’t mean just dark riders or shadow warriors; I mean Shadow Warriors, Dark Riders and if someone can tell me a good way to use them, Assassins.

[Myrdin]

Well... ok but then that means you cant make a non Aqshy / Ghyrian  City... I mean looking at the book right now, every single city we have, is either Aqshy or Ghyrian.

And since there is no "make your own" we are stuck with either this or that, regardless of which city is actually picked, it will be one of these. That means that even if we wanted a city from Azyr, we CANT really have one.

....hmmm I think I am finally getting it. So basically we ARE stuck with the one or the other realm. And as such there is really no point in drafting your city from a different realm, simply because we cant, as we have to pick one of the 6 cities and they HAVE to be either Aqshy or Ghyrian.

So technically I have access to Aqshy and Ghyrian artifacts, in addition to the 3 predefined for the City that is from the one or the other. ...well I guess thats still more than some other armies have, though I thought for a moment we can have cities from any of the realms.

Jesus Christ..... I like this book. I really do, but this is some seriously confusing sh*t to me >< There was no darn reason for them to complicate it to such a degree. Just do the typical "Temple/Greatfray/Skyport/etc, thing, and it would have worked out just nicely.

 

....chance is I got it completely wrong again. But I guess I`ll just stick to what is in the book. Not gonna try different realms and stuff. Thanks a lot for explaining. I am not thick headed per say, but I have never come across this type of rule build up / mechanic that is so convoluted. Have hard time wrapping my head around it just from reading the explanation.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Myrdin

[Tiger]

9 minutes ago, overtninja said:

As an aside, has anyone considered using Gryph-hounds as their retinue?

No, however do I want to burn my ally slot on them? I like the idea otherwise. 

[Amradiel]

If you want to run an all human army. What city would works best? Like the Empire from the old world 😊

[Duke of Gisoreux]

2 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Well... ok but then that means you cant make a non Aqshy / Ghyrian  City... I mean looking at the book right now, every single city we have, is either Aqshy or Ghyrian.

Well actually you could create a city from any realm. But this would mean the only thing you could use from Cities of Sigmar would be the warscrolls themselves, but none of the allegiance abilites as you would be stuck with the Grand Alliance Order Allegiance. This would be a bad tradeoff, but would allow you to choose any realm you like for your artefacts. Azyr is still not an option as there are no Azyr rules of any kind (yet).

[Double Misfire]

2 hours ago, Amradiel said:

If you want to run an all human army. What city would works best? Like the Empire from the old world 😊

All of the cities work great for all human/Empire forces, with which is best depending on how you like to play. Go Hammerhal for lots of Demigryphs and an emphasis on charging, Living City for ambushing humans that play like Wood Elves, Greywater Fastness for a gunline, Hallowheart for endless spell hell, or Tempest's Eye for speed and flexibility.

[stratigo]

5 hours ago, SentinelGuy said:

@Mjolnertf

Why shouldn't every unit in the book be useful?  These are supposedly experienced games designers and they charge a premium price for their product.

It's not as if they can't get similar units to work in other armies. Let's face it, the game is pretty basic as it is, it really shouldn't be a challenge to get these things ironed out before the book even goes to print.

There is a utility in having bad options. They provide a point of comparison and something to learn in how to build a list. 

 

2 hours ago, Amradiel said:

If you want to run an all human army. What city would works best? Like the Empire from the old world 😊

Avoid phoenecium. And anvilguard. Greywater fastness is on your ability to accept that you have to proxy a cogsmith out of a human engineer, not something that would bother me, and human engineers are explicitly mentioned in the battletome. Hammerhall, tempert's eye, hallowheart and living city all work with an all human army, though living city doesn't really keep the feel of a freeguild army IMHO. I'd lean towards tempest's eye because it just has better shooting. Hallowheart leans on mages more than anything else.

[Kierdale]

7 hours ago, Arathorn185 said:

I don’t mean just dark riders or shadow warriors; I mean Shadow Warriors, Dark Riders and if someone can tell me a good way to use them, Assassins.

Anvilgard Assassins, with the venomfang blade relic, deal an extra D3 mortal wounds on natural 6s to hit, for 2D3 MW.

[flamingwalnut]

9 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Well... ok but then that means you cant make a non Aqshy / Ghyrian  City... I mean looking at the book right now, every single city we have, is either Aqshy or Ghyrian.

And since there is no "make your own" we are stuck with either this or that, regardless of which city is actually picked, it will be one of these. That means that even if we wanted a city from Azyr, we CANT really have one.

....hmmm I think I am finally getting it. So basically we ARE stuck with the one or the other realm. And as such there is really no point in drafting your city from a different realm, simply because we cant, as we have to pick one of the 6 cities and they HAVE to be either Aqshy or Ghyrian.

So technically I have access to Aqshy and Ghyrian artifacts, in addition to the 3 predefined for the City that is from the one or the other. ...well I guess thats still more than some other armies have, though I thought for a moment we can have cities from any of the realms.

Jesus Christ..... I like this book. I really do, but this is some seriously confusing sh*t to me >< There was no darn reason for them to complicate it to such a degree. Just do the typical "Temple/Greatfray/Skyport/etc, thing, and it would have worked out just nicely.

 

....chance is I got it completely wrong again. But I guess I`ll just stick to what is in the book. Not gonna try different realms and stuff. Thanks a lot for explaining. I am not thick headed per say, but I have never come across this type of rule build up / mechanic that is so convoluted. Have hard time wrapping my head around it just from reading the explanation.

The lore of your city and miniatures has NO impact on the rules. Want to have a city from Azyr? Sure, go for it. Use one of the Cities and just go with it. Only the background fluff in the boom has anything to do with Realms. The Thermalrider Cloak from Aqshy can be a flying star cloak from Azyr, just play a bit of counts as and pretend.

If you want to imagine it, just take the artifacts of Aqshy and Ghyran from the Malign Sorcery book and paste them in Cities of Sigmar. Your city will then tell you which section to then choose from. You have 15 artifacts for each city this way.

Don't worry, you are overcomplicating it. The lore of your city is whatever you want, and any warscroll, artifact, or idea can get some form of representation in Cities of Sigmar.

[Batch]

So just go my Cogsmith and first batch of Irondrakes in, had this fellow for a while and decided to mess with what scheme I wanted for my Greywater, I think I'll roll with this, bit more regal. Wish it would stop raining so I can prime my Dorf bois up

[Defonotaspambot]

14 hours ago, Arathorn185 said:

I don’t mean just dark riders or shadow warriors; I mean Shadow Warriors, Dark Riders and if someone can tell me a good way to use them, Assassins.

I think you are just going to have to rely on magical buffing from Sorceresses, Battlemages or Luminarks etc. 

Tempests Eye, Hallowheart and The Living City all have spells that would benefit you.

[dekay]

14 hours ago, Arathorn185 said:

I don’t mean just dark riders or shadow warriors; I mean Shadow Warriors, Dark Riders and if someone can tell me a good way to use them, Assassins.

I'd say living city - if you manage to teleport 20 dark rider horde straight to the enemy, shoot, move and charge them, they, in theory, might work wonders. Shadow warriors are great even unsupported, and assassin can deploy through them as well. Plus, living city gives him access to the 'strike first' artifact improving his rend as well. Don't expect him to do wonders, but he's cheap for a killy character easy to deliver to combat.

 

Otherwise, tempest's eye, as it's good with all things shooting - dark riders with +1 to wound on their million shots, assassin to jump out of your shooting infantry if they're charged, and shadow warriors are basically awesome in any city there is. ; )

Also, if you have multple artifact slots, some basic  artifacts are great to have, too, when it comes to assassin synergies. Quicksilver potion comes to mind.