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Everything posted by Gwendar

  1. Got another one for you all with the same HD Magic list; this time vs Seraphon. Discussion is always appreciative πŸ˜…
  2. My List Seraphon List T1 He outdrops me and elects me to go first I manage to get 9 FP and kill the Starpriest via a Blue Scribes 2+ roll on the portal and the Slann failing to unbind Gift of Change. I put the Chaos Spawn within range of the Carnosaur and both Knights units, but it ended up dying from the Carno. On his turn, the Slann does 3 MW's to the Changecaster and 1 to the Scribes with Comets call, otherwise everything just moves up a bit. 3-3 Tie end of t1 T2 I win priority and he removes the bottom right objective. A combination of Winds of Chaos, Gift of Change and Tzeentch's Firestorm manages to kill about half the skinks and Be'Lakor puts -1 to wound on the small unit of Knights. Scribes goes right to summon 10 Blues. Shooting is mostly insignificant and the Kairics charge the small Knights unit. Combat has 5 Kairics die with the rest running from BS while I kill 1 Knight with the Spawn. On his turn, I Be'lakor the left (blue) Knights unit and Kairos stops Comets Call and Stellar Tempest with 12's. Carnosaur, Slann, Terradons and middle Knight unit get a bit closer and the Skinks charge middle Pinks while Terradons charge left Pinks (he almost had enough room to get them into the Changecaster and Magister but coherency issues stopped that). Terradons kill 7 Pinks with the MW's and combat and I do mostly nothing back. 5-8 Seraphon end of my t1 T3 I win priority again, he removes bottom left objective. I finally get the Changecaster on the BW and put ~5 MW's into the Carnosaur. I throw out the Daemonrift to tag the Carno, middle (red) Knights and Skinks doing ~29 MW's in total, killing the Carnosaur and leaving 1 Skink and 1 Knight left, but I Arcane Bolt the last Skink off to free up the Pink unit. Gift the blue Knights to get a Chaos Spawn in range and Winds of Chaos kill 3 Terradons. At the end, I have 21 FP's. I summon 10 more Blues on the right and Magister runs left to get 10 more Blues onto the back left objective. Freshly summoned Blue's make the 9" charge top right, Pinks kill the last red Knight and BS finishes the Terradons. We call the game at this point. Tzeentch Major Victory end of game Overall ThoughtsI think this went about as well as the last game.. my biggest issues are spell priority and where to put the Chaos Spawns. It would've been better if I kept that first spawn on just getting the red Knights tied up and let the Carnosaur be.. spell priority is something I need to just right down as a guideline to speed up hero phase and make my decisions easier. Winning every priority helped a lot here, but I think the screens would've held up okay.. the spookiest part is Comets Call + Stellar Tempest so I was lucky to unbind both and the Slann's +2 to unbinds helped him out a lot in keeping the Changecaster off the BW. I still don't think I'm too keen on changing anything, but part of me wants to remove the Kairics and a Wizard to grab 10 more Pinks. Anyone can see that the Kairics are the weak spot in my screens but having all 6 Wizards is what makes this list function altogether; I can always summon more Blue's. As always thanks for reading and any comments or questions are appreciated. I may try to get a fun Troggoth game up tonight\tomorrow for anyone interested in that πŸ˜‰
  3. Right.. it's almost like half the team is stuck in the past and oblivious to what actually changed. Oh well.. I still love them even if others don't πŸ˜‰ Exactly, you're basically just giving up a large reason of what makes them great. If your intention is to keep them behind a screen, then you may just be better off using foot Enlightened, especially since if they're behind one of our many 32mm based screens, they won't be able to hit with the Discs anyway with that 1" range unless that screen gets 1-shot. You could get them behind Blues\Brims I guess, but again you're sacrificing speed and an opponent could easily just ignore them or shoot\MW them off. I've never been very impressed with them... Enlightened had a nice spotlight moment in BoC for a few months awhile back doing the above tactic but have since faded out. Their theoretical damage is quite high, but realistically in most cases 1-2 of them at best are going to be killed before you get to swing with your RR's, especially if you're trying to kill an equally punch unit (which they should be, otherwise just use Skyfires\Flamers). In those cases, you may actually lose 3-4 even if you tag the corner of a unit or potentially lose that many models attacking due to bad pile-ins if you couldn't base-to-base the opposing unit. 5-10 HGB can still easily clear a whole unit like nothing and then just fight again later.
  4. Right, and like I said I agree they need a reduction. It seems like GW is too afraid to drop them or Kurnoth Hunters with Bows down too much because way back in 1st edition they were both pretty solid and that fear is still engrained in their heads. I'm just saying you're more likely to shoot at that lone character with Skyfires than with Flamers outside of Changehost is all.. is it as strong? Absolutely not; on average 6 Skyfires maths out to around 3-4 damage.. but if I have no other use of a 6 then I'll probably use one on it if it's an important hero I wanna kill. I'll never disagree Enlightened aren't better by miles.. but again, I'm looking at the potential threat ranges and the fact that Skyfire can hit first. I usually lose 1-2 Enlightened by the time I get to fight with them to get the RR's. If you stack them behind a screen then that works better of course, I've just not been one for that playstyle.. especially in a shooting meta where things aren't charging the screen in front of them and would just shoot them off instead. I think it just shows that they really seem to be all over the place with decisions. On paper things seem to be okay but if they ran math or really played with things a bit more they just don't make sense, like you said.
  5. Ah, see I really like that. Although FP costs would need changing of course. No one would want another Slaanesh before their 6 month FAQ where you kill all the Keepers just for them to get 1-2 back next turn πŸ˜… It would just come in within 3" of the garrison
  6. Sure, but I guess it's hard for me to gauge in an era of hyper-charged wizards +2-4 to cast with or without RR's being out there.. or Teclis not even needing to roll. At most I can see 160, more than that and you're really stretching the value. I worded that poorly I think.. I mean games like these are always going to be in a never-ending loop or else it dies πŸ˜…. I just have an issue with half-baked books and units being thrown out while other clearly get more attention or vastly different power levels in terms of rules.. and thats frustrating. I think perfect balance is impossible, but they can do far better. SoB was a letdown for me and so many others, especially with you all since they gouged the price so much on you all. It was the same with Gitz and BoC, even with Nurgle; all books "made with 2nd edition in mind" yet there was a noticeable power increase right after. They've shown that they can completely re-write scrolls with the Plague Monks.. so why is it so difficult to give units 3+ to hit or change\add a wording? I can't name the amount of units that would be vastly improved if they just hit on 3's and not 4's.. but I digress. I get your point with books... I was kinda suggested into 40k recently but the more I look at it and what I need to buy\remember\read up on etc has really pushed me away from it.. and I really fear for AoS going the same way eventually. Broken Realms will be the key that really shows what their plans are I think. I play a couple of other wargames (ASoIaF, Armada and Legion) so if I ever got burnt out, I have stuff to fall back on.. but AoS is always my main game and I'd hate to see them lose sight.
  7. Definitely don't go back to the old way... I think just having generate FP is okay.. maybe only from Pinks\Blues? I'm not really calling for them to be nerfed, but I don't think it would hurt a ton just having them split into 30 wounds over 50. If GW is going to gut them, that's just my most preferred way of doing it.. They'd still be a great screen and more units would be able to 1-shot them, which at 50 not a ton can if you have a CP to BS immune them. Lots of good stuff to breakdown there but I'll do it in the below response to RUNCMD's response to you. I still think Tzaangors warscroll is mostly okay, but I think the cost on them needs to come down... or literally just give them somewhere to fit in where they would be buffed like Conflag and Pyrofane do for shooting. Transient Form should be a pure Tzaangor coven, not another one for Kairics who may turn into a Tzaangor you have nearby. I'll tell you what though, if they lowered the cost and made the foot Enlightened battleline that would 100% have me sold into building into a CC based list with them. I'm (of course) going to agree\disagree with Skyfires πŸ˜‰. Yes, I do think they need a reduction.. but I don't think it's fair to compare their shooting to Flamers. They're just more of a "sniping" unit rather than "delete that entire block of 40" unit, and that's okay. For that cost you're getting something that can potentially snipe out 5-wound heroes at a 40" threat range, get +1 attack from the Agenda and clear 4+ save screens of 10-30 (depending on save) in CC. With an Exalted, 12 Flamers outside of Conflag and not getting Aura of Mutability is 660 points and can put out ~21 damage on average. 6 Skyfires with +1 attack can do ~23 and a better potential to delete that little hero giving Stormfiends RR all hits and wounds and +1 damage. LoC could definitely go down a bit more.. Kairos is objectively better in every way and only 20 more points. The reason you tend to see LoC is because GoS or Changehost requires it... and that's usually it (maybe a HA list with both since they get nudged 6" forward) I also disagree on Scribes going up.. for most people they're just a RR battery and I find a Changecaster to be a much better option to put on a BW. For sure though.. our time with it is likely soon to end. I wouldn't be surprised if it went away in the Winter FAQ honestly. This kind of thing about their speed comes up on discord often enough.. I just don't see them changing it. With trying to balance to gigantic game systems I really think they're just stuck in a neverending loop.. people always say "well at least it isn't as bad as 40k where people may only have a tome for 3 months" but I think AoS could quickly be approaching that. With these new books coming out (apparently the AoS equivalent to Psychic Awakening) then it could change things for the good or for the worse. Tomes just seem to be a mixed bag of thrown together stuff sometimes and it seems to be a pattern with certain rules writers doing better jobs than others. I never expect true balance.. but in this day and age, giving more than 3 points changes\FAQs a year is pathetic. There's no excuse for the updates to not be more frequent and include more.. for so many units, a points drop isn't enough and they need small or large tweaks to be taken.
  8. But to some extent I almost think that's okay, no? To me, Tzeentch is at it's most unique when it's playing in a control\debuff style of play.. but even then I typically find Flamer Spam to be "better" just by wiping 2-4 units off the table per turn. I think if they go too heavy handed, then there could be a major drop in players as it would lost it's uniqueness. We don't have a super strong CC setup outside of ultra-fragile Enlightened and the shooting is good in 1 particular setup (to a lesser extent, Pyrofane is decent in this regard too) but I've always felt the best lists should be all about summoning, shutting down and debuffing with the majority of damage being from spells. If any of that got tone down then I would really consider shelving them. My 6 wizard list is so strong not because of HD or Horrors, it's mostly because of Be'lakor and Kairos being able to just say "sit down" to 2 units in 1 turn.. or 2 turns for Be'lakor if they get a double.
  9. There's a reason I generally run no more than 10-20 Pinks in my lists. I'm just in favor of 1-1-1 rather than them generating FP.. I feel that even in HD they would be toned down a bit just because they would be easier to 1-shot the whole unit. With 50+ wounds as explained above, there's a lot of units that can't 1 shot them and then 1 Fold Reality later and you have problems again. Yeah, I don't think they need to get more complex.. splitting horrors as is has confused opponents into thinking you're doing some shady stuff. Ah well... we'll see what they do. The next big FAQ should be in December.. perhaps they'll do more than just another points increase. I really, really wish they would just learn to update the scrolls during these FAQ's and not force people to wait 1-2 years for their new battletomes.
  10. True, but even with Fold Reality alone you have the potential to get back 5 wounds per model restored.. and yeah, get a 1 on BS to get even more. I can see the Banner getting changed (even though all other daemons do the same thing I believe) but Fold Reality would need to be completely re-written or just not be used on Horrors which... would then make it a non-include except in Hosts Arcanum or Conflag with big units of Screamers\Flamers. A lot of lists aren't actually bringing healing or Multitudinous Host. I think a decent medium would be just make them split evenly.. the fact you have to buy 2 boxes of Blues\Brims per 1 box of Pink just sucks. That said, it would kill their some of their sales if they did that so who knows.. as it stands you want to wipe the whole unit if they have Fold Reality\-insert return slain models here- but putting them at only 30 wounds total vs 50 drastically lowers their ability to survive a lot of hammers out there while still being a reasonably good screen\wound block.
  11. I'll be honest, I would much prefer that and I wouldn't feel like I would need to bring along as many. I'd rather see them split into a single Blue than 2 but I don't know if they'll change that. Right now, the fact that I have to buy\build\paint\transport 2-3x the amount of Blues to Pinks is just dumb. What you're proposing would be a bit closer to how they used to work anyway... just make each dead Pink worth 2 and Blues worth 1.. maybe Brims worth nothing? I agree though, I think Pinks are what need to be looked at. 220 points for 50+ wounds is nuts.. a lot of the strongest punchy units in the game are still only putting put 35-45 damage on average with some cases easily clearing 50-70 damage. HD is strong, but Conflag and lately Hosts Arcanum have been stronger.. but Conflag is just good because Flamers are good while Pinks are just incredible in general. Not being able to retreat is a big deal, but so many units are already losing out on a whole turn even if they could retreat since they can't shoot\charge barring a few exceptions.. the most they can do is run onto an objective to regain control.
  12. So, you all wanna see a potentially oppressive list? Discussed some of this in Discord last night and figured I'd bring it here. It isn't something I think I would ever run IRL as it would likely require about 120+ Blue Horrors due to the returning of models\healing causing a lot of Pink-Blue splits. Not a lot of raw power, but you're really just teleporting that unit of 20 in range of the Changeling and giving them an auto-charge, take an objective and then count as double models. Your opponent now has to chew through an inescapable100+ wounds worth of Horrors that are -2 to hit in melee and -1 to hit at range. Stack the other Horrors on objectives (who can also be -1 to hit) in such a way that they can't get to them and just sit there for a few turns while they try to whittle down the Horrors.
  13. Doomwheels could like @Skreech Verminking said as you could tag them (not necessarily kill them) and you can do this with Gutter Runners as well. Alternatively, send 9-12 Jezzails through a Gnawhole (just to be sure they're kept out of range T1 if they go 1st) and shoot it off. Of course... yeah if they do go first or run 2 Crawlers and you only kill 1 then it can be pretty bad on the follow up. I think Doomwheels and\or Gutter Runners are a safer bet just to keep it out of commission since it won't even be able to shoot at them if they're within 6". You can mix anything you want.. you get all the traits; you don't have to be pure of a certain Clan to get traits. The only stipulation is that if you wanted to have Stormfiends\Acolytes, Plague Monks or Night Runners, etc as battleline then your entire army needs to be made up of that Clan barring having 1 Masterclan general.. otherwise you need 3x20 Clanrats as minimum battleline. Other than that, there's no restrictions to what you have access to. So what that means is that your Skryre Wizard would get warpsparks, your Verminous Clawlors would get their command trait, Pestilens Priests would get Great Plagues... etc.
  14. I guess it just depends on the army you're playing. They aren't something that you're generally getting in range T1 without a Bridge (even then you probably can't unless you're playing on a close deployment) so you're just setting up for future turns. Always be premeasuring and know when they don't need to be screened to ensure they don't get stuck behind Clanrats or something. Gnawholes are pretty useful if you set them up correctly.. I use those the majority of the time if I'm going second as the T2-3 double turn is usually the one that wins games. Buff em, send em through and be sure you have a wizard in range for a Spark. That gets them close enough to shoot and charge in if I need to get an objective. From there you're wanting that double and you've hopefully created enough pressure on the other side of the board that they have to decide where to go.
  15. 100% not necessary at all. I sometimes run 12 with a Bridge but outside of that instance it's never included. I do like to use a Warp-Grinder Team though.. but again, not necessary.
  16. Sorry, just noticed this comment.. I don't think I had notifications turned on πŸ˜… I've said it plenty on the Tzeentch thread, but yeah Skyfires are incredibly underrated. They aren't going to do 40+ damage like a lot of other units for the price but that's fine. In this list in particular, they give my opponent a harder decision to make when it comes to giving me T1 or not. If they do, then the Skyfires have a good chance at shooting a support hero off the board (as well as the Spellportal with Kairos) and giving them +1 attack from the Agenda can actually get them to putting out ~20 wounds vs a 4+ save in combat. They're also just far easier to use than Enlightened who do more CC damage, but have a good chance at getting blown up before they can attack at full capacity and don't carry a 40" threat range. Skyfires can clear lightly guarded objectives and snipe out 5 wound heroes all in the same turn.
  17. Yes, it's something a lot of people have done since the range on Warp-Lightning Vortex was nerfed. Skitterleap a wizard near one, cast WLV and whatever other spell, then teleport back in movement phase.
  18. I would say no... but there's literally no way to tell with GW. I wouldn't worry about it honestly; if they were going to go away, it wouldn't be for another 1-2 years when we get an updated book. And even then it could mean updated models. By the way, the Warpgnaw is still legal in matched play, it was the Clawlord on Brood Horror that only got Legends points and not Matched Play points.
  19. I meant to touch on this too. This was incredibly draining for me to do and I did it for at least 2 years. A couple of people I would purposefully play poorly against and I would still manage to win a lot of the time.. so I stopped. I did what I said above and either started to teach them how to play against me or I brought a whole different army that was easier (and I understand that may not be an option or something you wanna do). Even then, some people just won't be interested in being "taught" how to "play better".. and for them, yeah, I just don't play against them unless they sign up for the tournament. It is what it is, but if neither party can enjoy playing each other for whatever reason, then it's probably better for your own sakes and the sake of the community to just leave it be. In terms of the list, I genuinely think if you just switched it to another Host (like Summoners Guild, but they may think summoning a LoC who can't do anything meaningful until the next turn is too strong too πŸ˜…) would change a lot. The issue they seem is to have is that they can't retreat from anything and they can get locked in their deployment.. of course, that's why they need to be more mindful of how they deploy (measuring ranges, watch spacing so a Chaos Spawn can't tag multiple units, etc) and I think that's a "skill" all players should have to some extent. I think another thing you would want to remove is Be'lakor.. he doesn't lend well to casual players when you tell them "Yeah if you roll less than a 5 you can't do anything with that unit". Of course you're right though.. once you start removing those elements then it may start turning into something else. Outside of HD the Chaos Spawns are still useful as they need to make a choice between fighting it that turn and killing it (been done plenty of times to me) or shooting\MWing it off on their turn. I don't think it's the "no retreat" part of HD that gets most people, it's the fact that I can summon 2 Chaos Spawn a turn and if they can't kill it in that combat phase, they have to dedicate resources to kill it. If they retreat from it outside of HD, then they can't do anything else unless it's something that can retreat + charge\shoot.
  20. Nope, all of my local players know I'm a competitive player and a handful of them are too (particularly the ex-40k tournament players) so they don't care at all and they just have playing and learning to get better. The different is that unlike the standard "that guy" I try to pull things back against the casual folks or literally just tell them how as we play to stay away\counter my army. This list is all about control, but if you bring a shooting focused or hyper-fast\punchy army that can just shoot the wizards off or eat through the Horrors then it falls apart incredibly quickly. I see their point about it being uninteractive to some extent, but I would rather play against this than get shot off the board via Changehost. Teleporting right in your face and then killing 2-4 units per turn (on a 1-drop so I'll almost always decide who goes first) is far less interactive than this 9-drop list that has some glaring weaknesses. Changehost is hard to zone out if you run a Bridge like I do... but this list? I've had so many people make me go first and I can't hit anything important with spells T1.. then they double turn me and it usually goes downhill quickly once they've already reached me and claimed some boardspace. On TTS this is generally a lot harder to play because I have access to some very high level players. I wanted to quote this part too just to re-emphasize some things. My local scene is probably about 16 players (more than half of that being 1-2 hours away) and maybe 6 of them of are as competitive\tournament focused like I am. With a couple of people in the casual crowd, I can have 1 good game where everything goes right and I blow everything off the table with Skaven (now a B tier army at best) and I'll get some talk about how they're broken.. I take the same thing to other competitive-minded folks and it's the complete opposite. Some have even outright quit the hobby for months\permanently because they didn't win a game in a year, even when playing against other casual people. Now, I haven't played a physical game since February, but what I started doing was bringing 2 lists to these tournaments and give my opponents the choice of what to play. The competitive people would ask to play the heavy-handed list while the casual people would say "nah I don't care which you do!" so I would give them the easier list or I would pull back and do what I described above with showing them how to beat it. "Different stroke for different folks" is a term used around here a lot and I think it applies in the divide between casual and competitive. I don't care for people that refuse to play just because of a list as I often find that these are the same people that think tournaments are stupid and that the game should only be played in a way they think is fun. If you aren't a "that guy" then they should at least give themselves the opportunity to see how it works and pass judgement then.
  21. Nice game.. and I hate Khorne when I play as Tzeentch but they still have trouble chewing through Horrors. Just have to make sure your Heroes are far enough away so the Bloodthirsters don't explode MW's on them when they hit. Had a single Bloodthirster kill Scribes, Changecaster and Curseling from that one time πŸ˜… As for the drop down thing, just hit the spoiler button above (the little eye icon) then just past whatever you want in that. So, 2 things for you to look at when you play Khorne again: DD cannot be re-rolled or modified.. so you wouldn't have to RR them. If you have RR's (so Scribes or HD trait) and you fail to roll and you choose to RR it, you cannot then be forced to RR that RR. Per core rules, you never RR a RR. You didn't mention #2 specifically as happening, but just wanted to include it in case πŸ˜‰
  22. Thanks! Actually, the Daemonrift is predatory but if you're looking through Azyr then it conveniently leaves that part out as well as how far it moves. If I can afford the Daemonrift I'll probably always take it.. but sometimes stacking -2 to hit and wound on a unit and -1 attacks on another is just hard to pass up against certain matchups. I'm not overly worried about them hitting Horrors just because their damage is already abysmal. Daemonrift is easy enough to avoid even if Kairos can't auto-dispel it since I can just ensure I stay 13" away from it. Normally I try to do 2-3 Batreps a month but with my schedule it's been harder to play games and when I do I generally don't have energy to sit and record notes or take screenshots. Next week I'll probably run the same thing though.. this weekend I'm going to try giving Bonesplitterz or Troggoths a tryπŸ˜…
  23. Been playing a lot of Tzeentch lately and taking a break from Skaven this month.. but I know some of you like reading my batreps so figured I would post it here too for anyone interested πŸ˜‰ Also @SoSoCho I would agree that you'll probably get a lot more mileage from the Furnace being General like Riff_Raff said. Good luck to any future games for you.
  24. Well, here it is.. had my game vs Fyreslayers tonight, so for anyone looking at a decent representation of how my magic-based HD lists work, here you go πŸ˜‰ As always I welcome any feedback\questions\comments.
  25. My List Fyreslayers List T1deployment He outdrops me and goes first. He runs almost everything up to the center of the table, except for the 2 Runesons who are actually able to reach my Kairic Acolyte units on the right side, killing them and 3 Pink's. On my turn, I use a combined 6 with DD to cast Balewind and the Scribes rolls a 2 to cast Spellportal. I then use another combined 6 to get off Daemonrift which crashes into both Runesons doing 10 MW's to one (after being blasted with Bolt + Pink Fire), killing it and 9 to the other Runeson bringing it down to 5. The Nulsidian Icon gave me some trouble however, and Gift of Change was negated on a 5+ so it stuck around a little longer. Scribes runs right and summons 10 Blues, shooting kills a few Vulkites and the Sorc Lord charges into the Runeson to finish it off. bottom of T1 T2Objective drops dead center, he wins roll off but allows me to take the turn This time I manage to kill the Battlesmith with Gift to take away the 4+ spell ignore aura. Daemonrift takes a wound off the Runemaster and the Changecaster is just within range to fire off Bolt + Pink Fire + Arcane Bolt to finish him off and then Winds of Chaos kills 3 Hearthguard. I got 11 FP this turn, so I ran the Magister left and summoned 10 Blues to ensure I had most of the board covered for when objectives dropped. Be'lakor kills 4 Vulkites with 1 remaining after BS. On his T2, I Be'lakor the Hearthguard, however they still make the 5+ roll and make the 10" charge into the Pinks and I completely forgot about Kairos just stopping the charge (although in the end it took more things off his objective which was better). He also rolled the 5+ to allow them to attack, killing 8 of them. Runefather charges Be'lakor on the left and takes him down to 4 while Be'lakor shaves off 4 wounds in retaliation. 0-2 Fyreslayers end of my T2 T3Objectives drop top left and bottom right, he wins roll off and gives it to me again. I auto-dispel and re-cast Spellportal and do 4 MW's to the Runefather (6+ DPR from the terrain saved 2) while the Magister kills the last Vulkite to summon a Chaos Spawn within 3" of the Runefather. Kairos Winds of Chaos' the Hearthguard killing 3-4 more and then he calls the game. All I would need to do is move a few things on the center objective to take the lead while he's stuck fighting through 42 more wounds of Horrors without the double-pile in. 9-2 Tzeentch Major Victory end of game Overall ThoughtsI don't like to pat myself on the back, but barring forgetting a couple minor things... I would say this was about the most perfect this list has gone. I was sweating for a minute there when both Runesons made a charge, but luckily the shotgun that is Daemonrift was able to take care of that almost on it's own. I'm still somewhat up in the air over it though; it's good in these situations, but later on it's usually too far from any of my wizards\endless spells to get the bonus damage. Against other wizard heavy armies however and it gets to be pretty amazing again. Sometimes though I think I may want Geminids for really stack the debuffs around (not bad damage from them either). So yeah, I think I'll stick to this as my main Tzeentch list for the foreseeable future. The combination of control, raw MW output (when you actually roll average with RR's πŸ˜‰) and board coverage from the summons and it works relatively well. That all said, vs any shooting army and it can have problems, but most armies do nowadays. Hope you all enjoyed and as always appreciate feedback\comments.
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