AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Fuxxx]

I do like the Dragons now they've got riders. They mentioned dragon jousting. I have to imagine how dopey that'd look. Lance clashes armor. Like with horses. And then the wings hit each other and both plummet to their death

 

Do you think they'll come in sets of two? In that case I do hope the Boss comes separate, splitting boxes like with dracolines and dracoths is kinda meh.

[CommissarRotke]

oh man okay these new dragons look really cool... would love to have some dracoths to back them up but so many kits

did anyone else get the feeling this will be like the dracoth kit awkwardness? or do you think there'll be a separate hero kit + two generic in another kit?

[xking]

51 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

oh man okay these new dragons look really cool... would love to have some dracoths to back them up but so many kits

did anyone else get the feeling this will be like the dracoth kit awkwardness? or do you think there'll be a separate hero kit + two generic in another kit?

It's most likely all one kit.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Champasaur said:

absolute hammer of a unit in the dragon riders

It has been the case for a long while that some of the coolest SCE units have been very, very poor performance wise. So while it makes sense for these new fine beasts to be actual hammers, I'll wait until I see rules confirming

As it is, they're awesome and I've a history of buying awesome and trying to make it work regardless of ingame strength.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

did anyone else get the feeling this will be like the dracoth kit awkwardness?

Hard to 100% see with the way the photos are shot, but to me it looks like the wings up normal drake guard and the hero are the same dragon mount with a different head option.

My bet is a single kit. No idea if it makes 1 or 2.

[mystycalchemy]

6 hours ago, Kaptinskaggy said:

I kind of wish that the new Knight was a woman. They came out strong with Yndrasta and less strong with the Knight-Arcanum but unless I'm misremembering all the heroes revealed since have been dudes. 

The models are awesome though, definitely the highlight of an already incredibly good-looking wave. Did they specify somewhere whether the Knight-Draconis was built out of the same kit as the guard? I don't see anything about it but it seems likely. Really hoping that the minimum unit size is one if that's the case, would really suck if you had to have an odd-man out.

Agreed on the Female Knight- part!

And as for the odd-man out, just buy a second box and build a second Knight! Then you'll have two knights (hopefully they can take lances too) and a unit of two Stormdrake Guard!

[Baron Klatz]

Anyone else liking how this rounds out Stormcast cavalry?

Literal dragon lords

Stardrake centerpiece

Dracoth heavy cavalry

Gryph-chargers light cavalry

Dracoline magic cavalry

Gryph-chariot warmachine

And now Draconith knight flyers

Stormcast now dominate the lands and skies on foot, claw and wings of angels & dragons.

Wouldn't mind the Extremis Chamber expanding to officially include the non-drakes so it's the monster cavalry master.

[Whitefang]

4 hours ago, jhamslam said:

id bet 7 or 8 like IDK Sharks

Definitely more than Dracoths, probably same unit size and 300 for 2 like initial evocators on dracolines

expect more

[Mark Williams]

4 hours ago, Champasaur said:

Has there been a time in AOS where a single faction got this much new stuff? Between Dominion, new battletome rules, and all of these amazing new dragon models, I can’t think of another faction update that has gotten this much. Also Kruleboyz.

Lumineth.

[Champasaur]

4 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

Lumineth.

I wasn't really including entirely new factions altogether (Lumineth, Nighthaunt). I meant has an already existing faction received this much new content before? 

[PrimeElectrid]

7 hours ago, Whitefang said:

expect more

Yikes 😬 

400 points? Like for higher, confused face for lower.

Edited August 3, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Lucur]

9 hours ago, mystycalchemy said:

Agreed on the Female Knight- part!

And as for the odd-man out, just buy a second box and build a second Knight! Then you'll have two knights (hopefully they can take lances too) and a unit of two Stormdrake Guard!

Or find a fellow sce player to split a box and a half

This practice in general wouldn't even feel bad if we could increase unit sizes per model instead of multiples of the base size (which is now even more cemented with reinforcement rules, come to think of it -.-). This to me is the worst part of AoS...

I want to speculate on the warscrolls a bit. Assuming a 3+ save (like Dracothian Guard), are the shields factored in? Or do we get extra rr1, ignore 1 rend or... ?

Considering wounds, most monstrous cavalry have 5w so far, depending on the size of the buggers, this may or may not apply.

Dragon breath? Tail attacks? Maws to swallow models whole? Dragon breath and bite were mentioned in the teaser trailer. I know, that's no serious thing to go vy, but it's the best we got and i'm excited might just be some extra MW output as with DG shooting.

And finally weapon options. In general swords vs lances is a question of better standard profile with the swords vs massive boost on one round after the charge, but pretty much worse after, for lances. Since SCE lack melee rend2/3, i really hope the lances get in there. Not that i wouldn't like swords, but i need some rend2 in my life besides shooting.

That's me done with the rambling for now, what do we think?

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lucur
spellinK

[PrimeElectrid]

47 minutes ago, Lucur said:

Or find a fellow sce player to split a box and a half

This practice in general wouldn't even feel bad if we could increase unit sizes per model instead of multiples of the base size (which is now even more cemented with reinforcement rules, come to think of it -.-). This to me is the worst part of AoS...

I want to speculate on the warscrolls a bit. Assuming a 3+ save (like Dracothian Guard), are the shields factored in? Or do we get extra rr1, ignore 1 rend or... ?

Considering wounds, most monstrous cavalry have 5w so far, depending on the size of the buggers, this may or may not apply.

Dragon breath? Tail attacks? Maws to swallow models whole? Dragon breath and bite were mentioned in the teaser trailer. I know, that's no serious thing to go vy, but it's the best we got and i'm excited might just be some extra MW output as with DG shooting.

And finally weapon options. In general swords vs lances is a question of better standard profile with the swords vs massive boost on one round after the charge, but pretty much worse after, for lances. Since SCE lack melee rend2/3, i really hope the lances get in there. Not that i wouldn't like swords, but i need some rend2 in my life besides shooting.

That's me done with the rambling for now, what do we think?

We can probably make some informed guesses based on other warscrolls.

Move 12” minimum, move 14” more likely, and possibly as high as move 16”.

6 or 7 wounds as they are on much bigger bases than Dracothian Guard which GW weirdly use to set wounds. Looks like a chariot base to me, most of which are 6 with a few 7s. Could be as many as the allopex on 8.

Save 3+ (Thunderstrike armour + shield) but I doubt they will have any -rend (only old cast have this so far) and rr anything is being removed.

SCE basic weapon profile seems to be 3/3/-1 based on the new vanguard scroll, so I’d guess they would have 3/3/-1/2 swords to keep them in line with Praetors and Annihilators. Lances are always increased damage or rend or both on the charge for fewer attacks. Interestingly GW are harmonising weapon profiles so we may see no difference (blood knights), minimal differences (reach) or two whole profiles. There’s a rumour going around that Dracothian guard will get +1 attack so I will guess at least 4 attacks each to match.

The article gives no hints about the dragons in combat but we can only assume that they will be at least as good as Dracoths, if not better, with some kind of shooting attack. Probably not exactly the same as GW tends to associate unique abilities with particular models to create identity. I’m going to go out on a limb and say the mounts will be big damage, rend 2 damage 2, as they look like big scary monsters. Probably not a bite as their jaws are too small. Maybe a star drake type tail attack. Most dragons have 6 or 7 attacks with their claws at top profile so I will guess 5 as these are babies.

Summarising:

Move 14”, wounds 7, 3+ save 
4 attacks 3/3/-1/2, maybe mortals (swords) or more rend/damage (lances)
Mounts 5 attacks 3/3/-2/2
Dragon shooting attack (unknown)
At least one special rule with an “in addition” (unknown) 
Monster keyword

500 points

Edit; oh, actual dragons always get a bite attack too, so add that in. 1 or 2 attacks, 3/3/-1/d6 (or d3 as they are babies).

Probably nudge the points closer to 400. Actual dragons are around 300 points usually (unless they are vordrai) and 500 points is stardrake territory. These are smaller than actual dragons so logically cheaper per model (but more for the unit). Say 225 for one or 450 for the unit, take off 10-20 to keep them out of stardrake price. 420?

Edited August 3, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Whitefang]

52 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Yikes 😬 

400 points? Like for higher, confused face for lower.

not referring to points

Edited August 3, 2021 by Whitefang

[PrimeElectrid]

2 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

not referring to points

Wow, 10 wounds??

[jeanfluflu]

44 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Wow, 10 wounds??

Tauralon has 10 wounds an is a monster, if this is going to be true i'd love to get a full monster army!!!!!

The monster rampage allowing them  to scream and shut down enemy units command abilities could really make a difference there and allow them to be a dramatic force to face.

[OkayestDM]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some wounds increases across the board for SCE Cavalry and monsters. Gryph-chargers might make sense at 5 wounds, but the massive, scaly Dracothian Guard just feel wrong at 5. 6-7 at least.

Ignore or reduce 1 rend might well become a trait for all dragon units to account for their scales. Alternatively, the damage value for attacks made against them may be reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1), just like the Drake-scale armor artifact used to do.

It's a little hard to gauge with the previewed models, but a wounds characteristic of 8 or 9 doesn't seem too out of the question. If they come in units of 2, that gives one unit about as much health as a Stardrake, which would be intense.

I strongly suspect that GW is going to go the bloodknights route and use the same profile for the swords and lances, but you never know. Doubtless the dragons themselves will have very strong melee profiles, and I assume their ranged attack will mirror the Dracothian one.

Speed is an open question for me. Dracothian guard currently sit at 10" move (which could certainly change come the new battletome.)  Part of me thinks that the new mounts would need to be at least 14" speed to keep the two units different, but even a 10"-12" speed would still prove to be a big deal, given that these models fly.

 

I'm extremely excited. The fact that GW has given us the means to build an all-dragon army is simply thrilling, and I can't wait to get my hands on these models and try them out!

[JackStreicher]

I‘d simply like more info about all of the new units! -> Build options, Stats, special rules etc. They really try to keep the information back which leads to to believe that the release will be late this month.

[Lucur]

9 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I‘d simply like more info about all of the new units! -> Build options, Stats, special rules etc. They really try to keep the information back which leads to to believe that the release will be late this month.

I think they rather want to sell some more Dominion and stsrter boxes before revealing/ releasing the full kits with other options.

[Mikosan]

4 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

There’s a rumour going around that Dracothian guard will get +1 attack so I will guess at least 4 attacks each to match.

The article gives no hints about the dragons in combat but we can only assume that they will be at least as good as Dracoths, if not better, with some kind of shooting attack. Probably not exactly the same as GW tends to associate unique abilities with particular models to create identity. 

Summarising:

Move 14”, wounds 7, 3+ save 
4 attacks 3/3/-1/2, maybe mortals (swords) or more rend/damage (lances)
Mounts 5 attacks 3/3/-2/2
Dragon shooting attack (unknown)
At least one special rule with an “in addition” (unknown) 
Monster keyword

500 points

I didn't hear that rumor about Dracothian guard(it would be a good start to improve them) but I hope these new ones are much better or the OG dragon cav get much much better.  I have twelve of them and at their 3.0 point cost using the soon to be outdated book they are not great.  Defense wise the FAQ to the shields makes them very tanky, unless of course MW are thrown at them(which they will be). I just find they have too few attacks and unless the mounts spike some 6's on wound rolls the damage is very lackluster.  I've been a broken record on this for a while but if they just went back to the old breath weapon of 6" d3 3+ 1MW or 2MW if within 3" it would make them much more grindy in combat as they should be.  

Mostly I hope that the dragon army they talk about includes all the dragon models, new and old.  Given the higher points cost of such units it will be a small army for sure and hopefully you can get some numbers in there with dracoths being the smallest of the bunch therefore the most numerous. 

My guess on the new dragons:

Move 12", 10 wounds and I think you nailed the rest.  Maybe 400 points because I expect no consistency on 3.0 points cost once new battletomes hit the streets.  Old stuff will be pointed higher than it should be, but I'll one happy sigmarine if wrong  

 

[jeanfluflu]

I also hope that the dracothian guard and/or dracoline could be available as battleline for this army, i find the idea of having to buy at least 4 boxes of these models (1 for the lord, 3 for the 3 battleline slots) very tedious and boring.

A mix of dracoth, dracoline and these new dragon models for a full cavalry army is much more appealing to me, but it is way less profitable for a company.
Their goal is to sell a lot of these models and by doing this it's going to happen

[Lucur]

I just reread the article, the knight's dragon has a different posture than the two troppers dragons have respectively (plus some srmor bit). So i assume we either get a different kit for the bossman and a kit of probably 2 for the unit or there's a proper choice in the pose of the mounts, which would be unheard of in recent kits.

[jeanfluflu]

1 hour ago, Lucur said:

I just reread the article, the knight's dragon has a different posture than the two troppers dragons have respectively (plus some srmor bit). So i assume we either get a different kit for the bossman and a kit of probably 2 for the unit or there's a proper choice in the pose of the mounts, which would be unheard of in recent kits.

only the knight's dragon's head is different, the rest of the body is exactly the same as dragon rider number 2:

 

Arms, legs and wings are at the same place, the only difference is that dragon has an open mouth and some armor on his forehead.

[Zeekayn]

Edited August 3, 2021 by Zeekayn

[PJetski]

I'm starting to think maybe they will come in squads of 1 because a double reinforced battleline unit of 6 sounds like a balancing nightmare