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116 Celestant-Prime

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About Mikosan

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  1. Didn’t mean to misrepresent what you said, apologies there. As Kramer mentioned a lot of those 5-6 wound support pieces are going to be dead turn 2. I think it’s the lack of layering of synergies that holds SC back imho. Stormhosts mostly all have some marginal benefit which is fine if those bennys could be stacked with the couple useful traits, items, command abilities we have access to. I think the strength of the army such as it is, is in the massive choice in units we have. Should be something in the toolbox for whatever situation arises, it’s just the combo of older design philosophy and locking doors to more synergies that hits hard on the tabletop. I do love the new points though and been having a blast writing new lists. As others have said more and more I am looking to take less heroes to get more value on the board, how that works out once we can play these things out in the wild only Sigmar knows
  2. Translocation and dispel scrolls are good I agree, however, they don’t buff our units which I see most folks argue don’t have enough staying power or punch. It’s what made sequitors so good in the early days of AoS 2.0, they buffed themselves and could layer synergy with arcanum or evocators. Now even that doesn’t look so hot. The ranges on new stuff like abilities and buffs are enormous
  3. Eh? I think one of SCE biggest weaknesses is the lack of quality synergy between units and heroes. Pretty much comes down to reroll 1's to hit(a lot of this) or +1 sv(which is limited to castellant lamp on one unit, or wholly within 9" staunch defender and you lose the option if you take any stormhosts) . A lot of average units in AoS can layer synergies and become very good. Our units have to function as is or with mild buffs on one unit here and there. Anvils allowing for hero phase attack/shoot being the notable exception and why most lists lean that way despite the obvious tax in losing access to staunch and picking useful items. This is of course just my opinion though.
  4. Fake news. Only the first model you move from each unit that benefits from seeker of souls has to finish within 1/2 inch and nothing says you have to charge if within 12 inches.
  5. Yeah I really don't get what they are seeing with his rules to merit 340 points. Have they really not noticed that nobody is taking him to events, like ever. Keeping him off the table in order to get a couple more attacks is just maddening to me. For 340 he should just get 6 attacks base and a 5++ save. Rend -3 and damage 3 was great 3 years ago but the game has moved on and 8 wounds with no save after save or MW protection is just a nut punch. Maybe come up with a whole new thing to replace the celestial realm power up too, it is just a dumb rule imo. I want him on the table, its why I bought and painted him up, lol. I let them know all this at length in the community survey but they didn't listen, I couldn't have been the only one. Having said all that, hands down my favorite SC model
  6. It makes sense to me that with the abundance of character/unit options SCE have, they should have a whole slew of battleline if options. I mean the range of models is huge, opening up the army build options within the book can only lead to selling more models in my opinion.
  7. My hope is some points changes: Morsarr-probably up to 180 Allopex- should drop, but even at 120 would they really be better than eels at 140-180? At 100 points I would load up on them but expect they will be 120 and still rarely seen Leviadon- same as Allopex needs a drop but probably won't drop enough to really be palatable, my guess is 380 down to 340 Eidolons- these are my absolute favorite models and in my mind should be 300-340 however that is a pretty big drop and I don't know if GW has ever lowered something that drastically before, so I expect the same 20-40 point drop putting them in the 360-400 range and still rarely seen Thralls- seem ok at 140 points with the discount for max unit size I guess Reavers- should go down 20 to 120 points Lotann- not sure points are going to help this lovely chap, needs a scroll rework because i have found him to be pretty terrible. My hope is that the Eidolons see an aggressive points drop as they seem like they could be a lynch pin for the whole army with their passive buffs to nearby units and abilities. My fear is that while eels go up a bit other things only see a modest 20 point drop leaving the army builds pretty much stuck in the same rut. As ever, I remain cautiously optimistic
  8. I agree completely with all this, especially a way to make them battleline. Seems easy enough if you take a LC on dracoth. I remember Ben Johnson saying long ago that to the designers the extremis chamber didn't get a battleline option because in the lore they were brought in as devastating shock troops in times of great need. Of course that was then, nowadays they aren't all that devastating and an army full of them would lose the objective game hard. The tempestor nerf really bummed me out because they were my favorite aesthetically and the targeted -1 to hit debuff was strong, but far from broken. Would really like to see it go back given the breath weapon nerf on them and fulminators. I asked for all of this in great detail on the community survey Also that the Prime gets a better warscroll or goes down to 260-280. Come on GW make it happen!!
  9. As a guy that invested a lot of money and time painting Dracoths(8) and a Templar(blue tac a shield on to make him a celestant) I couldn't agree more! I am still salty about the change to tempestors. They used to be such a great tool in a dracoth heavy army with the targeted -1 to hit debuff, not to mention the old MW breath weapon which doesn't seem so crazy these days. No reason to take them now over fulminators. While fulmi's aren't really bad, they have been completely surpassed by not only other units in the book, namely sequitors and evos( with sure charge the lower movement is irrelevant and body count is huge advantage in the objective game), but also new units in other books. In short, I think all the nerfs in the new book were totally unnecessary. Still wish there was a way to make them battleline, no way in todays game it would be anything close to OP, I mean compared to 4 units of 40 murder monks for skaven? Templar could still drop 60-80 pts in my opinion. He lacks the shield of the celestant so is in no way shape or form worth his 460 points in an era kicking out the MWs most armies bring to bear and sub 300 pt Verminlords! Bit of a rant, sorry, but had to get it off my chest, Lol
  10. Eh, I'm not so sure the suggested -2 rend on claws and changing the tail attack to a regular roll instead of depending on model count makes him an offensive juggernaut. I think the defensive capabilities he brings to the table aren't winning games while also being frustrating to play against for some lists. Heck he can be frustrating to play with even when looking across the table at 3 GUO's, or 60 blood letters, or MW bomb blood thirsters, etc... Still, brings up a good point about offense vs. defense and the balancing of a units potential
  11. As someone that has played with a LCoSD extensively for the past year or so, including at Nova, a two day event in Ohio, and countless local tournaments here are my thoughts for what its worth: People say he is unkillable but I lost him in 3 out of six games at Nova to MW, weight of attacks, or both. I ran him with Staunch, castellant, and Ignax scales. On paper nigh indestructible but given the MW output of some mid to top table armies saving 50% of the MW means he will go down if focused on. Against DoK the amount of attacks witches put out mean I was rolling buckets of dice and double ones chipped a couple wounds off here and there while his rather poor damage output kept him locked up and boxed in. Hand of dust and Archaon slayer of kings can do a number on him too. Now I could certainly have played better at Nova(I don't consider myself very competitive on the gaming front) but the better Stormcast players weren't using the drake for a reason I imagine. I just don't think you get enough bodies in a drake list. Has the old Les Martin build been seen lately? I know for a time it was quite good, but still needed a good player to get the mileage out of due to the lack of bodies. In my casual games he is almost always a beast even without staunch or the castellant because an opponent with a casual list isn't usually packing tons of MW's. In local tournaments he can leave some folks feeling bad but still doesn't equal an auto win as objectives are a thing. His scroll design is weird in that he can dominate casual games but not be worth it in high end competitive tournaments, which I believe we have seen with all the top players opting for the sequitor/evo/ gav lists. Does this mean he is bad? Not really, for me. I love the model and he usually pulls his weight in soaking up damage, but i do think the scroll is showing it's age in AoS 2.
  12. I think some perspective is needed on all sides of this. Everyone knows that there are a lot of factions worse off. If you are playing a game vs. a non-battletome army, sure everything in the book is competitive. But is that the baseline for comparison? I think the rub is that no army has had as many revisits as the Stormcast and to still have so many easily fixed issues with points and overlapping roles is kinda frustrating.
  13. As others have said, internal balance is abysmal. The new chamber pretty much replaces everything that came before, doing the same job better and for the same points or marginally more in the case of sequitors. Nerfs to units that didn’t warrant any like tempestors and the foot celestant. Storm hosts that add flavor and not much else. Battalions that are really non starters in competitive play outside of the phalanx which really just features the two best units out of the whole book. Two center piece models in the Celestant Prime and Tauralon that are junk for the points, seriously I want to use those models but 8 and 10 wounds for 340 points? I know some folks are touting the immortal Stardrake but having taken that to Nova recently myself it really doesn’t do the damage you need from a quarter of your points and with the plethora of Nagashs out there toting HoD, it is a giant spell and mortal wound magnet. Will it tank stuff and survive? Sure, but if you are chewing through 60 witch elves or 30 tzaangor over 3 turns you may be just winning the battle but losing the war for objectives as I did in a few games, and it still died in 3 of the 6 games even with the 4 up MW save. Much was made of the S.C. list that came 6th at Nova while glossing over the fact that it used 20 sequitors and 2 units of 10 Evocators, not exactly a showcase for unit diversity. Now because I want to throw some positives in there to balance things out a bit and matched play isn’t everything I do still like a lot of stuff. The lore has improved by leaps and bounds. The addition of storm hosts is really cool and fits the narrative well even if the execution is poor. The Relictor and Azyros are great support characters and cheap enough to drop in any list and provide utility. And of course the models are top notch and get better with every release, which they get regularly as another plus. I love the Stormcast, have since AoS dropped I just think the new book took away as much as it added in a competitive environment, but if you play narrative games or lots of non battletome armies that’s not really an issue. That’s my two pennies worth anyway.
  14. Pretty much this^ I don't even think sequitors need a points increase, just less of a discount at the max unit size. Points cost internally are slightly out of whack. Paladins to Evos being the biggest example. Fix the costs of older units and the options for top builds increase dramatically imo.
  15. I love tempestors, ran 2x2 for a long while and have to say they are pretty bad now. No real reason to take them over the fulmis without the targeted -1 to hit debuff. The nerf was unnecessary imo. Breath attack? Sure. The debuff is just one nerf too many. I attended Nova with this list: Lord Celestant on Star-Drake -General, Staunch, Ignax Scales Azyros 2x Incantors with azyrite halo and stormcaller Relictor with Translocation 2x5 Libbys 2x5 Judis 10 Evocators with 5 sword and staves, 5 grandstaves, and reroll charge spell Quicksilver Swords This was my first big event and have to say I had an amazing time, played some awesome armies, and met some great people. I am not that good at playing but managed to get into the final round of 10 armies for paint judging so I consider that a win. Finished 48 with soft scores added. I plan on doing better each year (at least i hope too)
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