AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Mikosan]

My prediction is that oldcast has warscrolls combined like one for older paladins, one for dracoths, difference will be in load out, etc with minimal changes to both scroll and points. Nothing is getting squatted, just not really updated.  They said on stream that the new armor allows Sigmar to send the thunder strike force to where the battle is heaviest because they can reforge and oldcast can’t make it back to azyr because of be’lakor. Seems pretty clear that’s the direction the faction is going. GW aren’t trying to sell more retributors lol. And for the record it’s fine. This kind of churn is what you are in for with marines or stormcast, old stuff will be playable, just not cutting edge. 

[baiardo]

14 minutes ago, Mikosan said:

My prediction is that oldcast has warscrolls combined like one for older paladins, one for dracoths, difference will be in load out, etc with minimal changes to both scroll and points. Nothing is getting squatted, just not really updated.  They said on stream that the new armor allows Sigmar to send the thunder strike force to where the battle is heaviest because they can reforge and oldcast can’t make it back to azyr because of be’lakor. Seems pretty clear that’s the direction the faction is going. GW aren’t trying to sell more retributors lol. And for the record it’s fine. This kind of churn is what you are in for with marines or stormcast, old stuff will be playable, just not cutting edge. 

Great, as a new player seems I choose the best faction/chamber/moment and even year to be in “love” with sce. But I get it, thanks.

[Mattrulesok]

8 hours ago, Nizrah said:

This thread before Warhammer fest: GW HATE STORMCAST, NO REALES FOR 3 YEARS, GIVE ME ANYTHING, I WOULD LOVE SOME SPEARS

After warhammer fest: I HATE THIS ARMY, WHY GW FORCE US TO BUYING NEW MODELS, NEW MODELS ARE UGLY, I'M SELLING THIS ARMY 

wtf guys 

Nah that's ******. People have been asking for warscroll rewrites this entire time and the way they introduced the new models and lore suggests we aren't getting them and instead getting new models to buy that replaces our old. 

 

The concern and grumbling in this thread is completely justified. We've all spent money on models and an army that are slowly becoming obsolete and 'just buy new models' is not the solution we want. I want to buy models because I want them not because I can't play properly without them. 

 

This is all to say we don't yet know what is happening with the new tome, if we get warscroll rewrites etc. It might just panic for nothing but GW doesn't have the best history of support when it comes to their posterboy factions. 

[PJetski]

There is a 0% chance they will make the old models illegal. Maybe far in the future like in 5th edition, but they will be legal for a long time.

Maybe the oldcast won't be optimal but there's a good change we will get new rules for them that make them better than they are now.

[Hashut]

I don't really want to wade into old vs new stormcast debates, but these new ones appeal to me whereas the old ones didn't.

I'd like to know, though, if there are any third-party producers of alternative shields and/or heads that people know of? I'd love to replace the shields on the new ones with a nice big round shield.

[JackStreicher]

7 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

pic of the rune?

 

[Mattrulesok]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

There is a 0% chance they will make the old models illegal. Maybe far in the future like in 5th edition, but they will be legal for a long time.

Maybe the oldcast won't be optimal but there's a good change we will get new rules for them that make them better than they are now.

I don't think they will make them illegal but power creep is real and most of the older models already feel underpowered and will only feel more so with time. liberators are already down to 90 points and have a profile that is about the same as a freeguild guard, they are weaker than most factions basic battleline and shouldn't be. Outside of aetherwings, gryphhounds and the ballista, Sotrmcast shouldn't really have any units below 120-140ish points.

 

Time will tell what GW do with them, im hoping with AoS being a smaller game than 40k they still feel the pressure to continue supporting the previous generations of models with new rules.

[Gotz]

Remember that we still have the Stormkeep & Scions ruleset. And it says that stormkeeps are mainly liberators. 

So they could reorganise the numerous warscrolls that we have around this.

[Nozdormu]

I heard a rumor that we get two Battletomes. One to represent forces before Be'Lakor events and one for new Sotrmcasts after those events. Some models like Celestant-Prime will be shared.

They did it once for Anvilgard.

[xking]

6 minutes ago, Nozdormu said:

I heard a rumor that we get two Battletomes. One to represent forces before Be'Lakor events and one for new Sotrmcasts after those events. Some models like Celestant-Prime will be shared.

They did it once for Anvilgard.

If that is true, then GW really are s***

I am all about Warrior Chamber, and To See gw erase my Army out of the story is garbage!

[xking]

6 hours ago, Mattrulesok said:

Nah that's ******. People have been asking for warscroll rewrites this entire time and the way they introduced the new models and lore suggests we aren't getting them and instead getting new models to buy that replaces our old. 

 

The concern and grumbling in this thread is completely justified. We've all spent money on models and an army that are slowly becoming obsolete and 'just buy new models' is not the solution we want. I want to buy models because I want them not because I can't play properly without them. 

 

This is all to say we don't yet know what is happening with the new tome, if we get warscroll rewrites etc. It might just panic for nothing but GW doesn't have the best history of support when it comes to their posterboy factions. 

Exactly, I always complained about the warrior chamber, extremis chamber, Vanguard chamber and the sacrosanct chamber unit not fitting the lore and they need it to be better. 

I did not ask for skinny man primaris stormcast. And to see GW erase the army that I love both in models and the lore is disgusting.  

I was with stormcast in the very beginning! Models, campaign books. I even bought several novels that were all about stormcast!

If it comes out that GW is really going to erase the warrior chamber aesthetic and replace it with the Vindictor aesthetic. Then I'm done with the game, I've done it before. I did it with Pathfinder.

[Killamike]

Dude relax, you legit have no idea whats going to happen and your working yourself into a frenzy.  

Just chill and wait,  see what happens, if it all goes south then your complaints are justified.

New stormcast look awesome. Can't wait to add it to my existing army. 

Awesome how we all like different things isn't it. 

[Juicy]

im in 50/50 about the new stormcasts. 

I always liked the non feathers on the prosecutors and the prime and liked that boxy look. Im super invested into the old stormcast so at first when i saw the new release i was like.. OH DAMN THIS ISNT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.. i dont like models being updated this fast. At 40k i didnt like it either because im into GW games for long enough to know that it means a total overhaul from al the old models. So right now we think oke we got new sce and old sce. They look wierd next to one another but we all know within 2 years al the old stuff is replaced. (all that old warrior chamber stuff atleast). This is something i dont really like. I could imagine that with the new chamber ( if this is really a new chamber.. im not 100% sure yet) old stuff is getting sup optimal. I dont think for a second my liberators going to be better then these new battleline options and those new paladins are going to be worse then my retributors. 

Its just not how GW worked in the past with the exeption of chaos marauders maybe. 

Now ive settled down with my initial rage im like: lets see some rules first and mayb i can make a new off-meta themed list thats going to be cool to run at the middle tables.. That doesnt totaly look out of place just yet. 

[Feii]

Given how SCE army rules are trying to work (but not working atm) I think singular models don't matter that much. IF they rewrite books so you can stack several layers of rules on a blob of 10 Sequitors/Vindicators/Retributors blink them somewhere on the map charge in with some rerolls I don't care how worse or better those 3 warsrolls I named are.  If it is fun to play it will be fun to play Battletome. Theone thing we need to dodge is the bin writer. 

[baiardo]

6 hours ago, Juicy said:

im in 50/50 about the new stormcasts. 

I always liked the non feathers on the prosecutors and the prime and liked that boxy look. Im super invested into the old stormcast so at first when i saw the new release i was like.. OH DAMN THIS ISNT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR.. i dont like models being updated this fast. At 40k i didnt like it either because im into GW games for long enough to know that it means a total overhaul from al the old models. So right now we think oke we got new sce and old sce. They look wierd next to one another but we all know within 2 years al the old stuff is replaced. (all that old warrior chamber stuff atleast). This is something i dont really like. I could imagine that with the new chamber ( if this is really a new chamber.. im not 100% sure yet) old stuff is getting sup optimal. I dont think for a second my liberators going to be better then these new battleline options and those new paladins are going to be worse then my retributors. 

Its just not how GW worked in the past with the exeption of chaos marauders maybe. 

Now ive settled down with my initial rage im like: lets see some rules first and mayb i can make a new off-meta themed list thats going to be cool to run at the middle tables.. That doesnt totaly look out of place just yet. 

I have hardly ever used some of the units I have from the warrior room, I was expecting a new one not a total replacement, no matter if I can still use them for some time. the scam move they made was releasing blackwatch with oldcast again..why? Battalions with 60 liberators why?!.

I will wait but I would seriously quit the game .. I don't think I will anyway

 😄

Edited May 10, 2021 by baiardo

[boombyeyeah]

NewCast dont look different to oldcast imho, spearguys a little lighter, the chunky boys a like more chunky... So what? Paladins look more buff than Liberators too. 

[Feii]

13 minutes ago, baiardo said:

I basically never used some units I have from warrior chamber, I was expecting a new one not a total replacement, don't matter if  I can still use them for some time. the scamm*r move they have done is release blackwatch with oldcast again..why? Battalions with 60liberators why?!. 

I'll wait but I would want to quit the game seriously..I don't think I'll do it however 😄

the BR stuff is quite good for a local play imo. especially teleporting blobs of retributors with +1 save pregame

[Marcvs]

Just now, Feii said:

the BR stuff is quite good for a local play imo. especially teleporting blobs of retributors with +1 save pregame

how do you teleport retributors pregame?

[PJetski]

14 minutes ago, baiardo said:

I basically never used some units I have from warrior chamber, I was expecting a new one not a total replacement, don't matter if  I can still use them for some time. the scamm*r move they have done is release blackwatch with oldcast again..why? Battalions with 60liberators why?!. 

I'll wait but I would want to quit the game seriously..I don't think I'll do it however 😄

Technically they are new units, just in a slightly different aesthetic. You can run Vindictors alongside Liberators and Annihilators alongside Retributors.

Primaris did not directly replace Space Marines. It has been a few years and a few waves of releases and they still haven't directly replaced regular Space Marines, though it's obvious that the oldmarines are being phased out.

In fact, in the first codex Primaris Marines were pretty bad and generally seen to be inferior to the oldmarines.

[Feii]

3 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

how do you teleport retributors pregame?

sorry Liberators, got it mixed up with 40k 😒

[Whitefang]

Nah thunderstrike are really just primaris Stormcast 

By the lesson from 40k apparently GW is not gonna erase oldcast at once

TBH I guess they will buff oldcast in the 3ed as appeal to veteran players and then gradually support newcast supplement by supplement and 2 or 3 editions later there will be no one using oldcast

Then that’s the moment they will justify retiring oldcast, maybe not giving them rule adjustment as the first step.

[PJetski]

3 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Nah thunderstrike are really just primaris Stormcast 

By the lesson from 40k apparently GW is not gonna erase oldcast at once

TBH I guess they will buff oldcast in the 3ed as appeal to veteran players and then gradually support newcast supplement by supplement and 2 or 3 editions later there will be no one using oldcast

Then that’s the moment they will justify retiring oldcast, maybe not giving them rule adjustment as the first step.

I agree that GW will probably follow the same path with the Newcast that they did with the Primaris. I'm not so optimistic to think that oldcast will be buffed, but it sure would be nice!

Sequitors did not replace Liberators even though they had a better warscroll and "better" models and Castigators did not replace Judicators. It's possible for every unit to have a niche... but I dont trust GW to get this right because they have failed so many times before

[jeanfluflu]

Oh wow these miniatures looks good.
By comparison the old liberators looks like they come from a distant catroonish past (some mix between AoS and world of warcraft kind of universe where everyone has over the top proportions).

I don't really like their faces though, so i made some custom ones, i'll make some tests when i have time and i'll share them arround there for the lucky ones who have a 3D printer.



I'll make a female version of this and i'll get the champion done too.

Considering if they will replace or no the old liberators well only future will tell and i don't really care.
As long as this new version of AoS is fair and balanced (as much as it could) well i'm happy with it.

[OkayestDM]

5 minutes ago, Whitefang said:

Nah thunderstrike are really just primaris Stormcast 

By the lesson from 40k apparently GW is not gonna erase oldcast at once

TBH I guess they will buff oldcast in the 3ed as appeal to veteran players and then gradually support newcast supplement by supplement and 2 or 3 editions later there will be no one using oldcast

Then that’s the moment they will justify retiring oldcast, maybe not giving them rule adjustment as the first step.

That's honestly more or less what I'm expecting. Cycling out certain molds over time makes sence, and as a model company they have to ensure that they are able to continually introduce more new models - and that people will buy them, but that won't do them much good if they alienate the bulk of their fan base by destroying the thing they love.

There's an old saying in business, it cost 4-10x as much to draw in a new customer as it does to keep an existing one. Sure, Newcast will draw in some outlier players who avoided Stormcast before for aesthetic reasons, but if they upset a lot of their long-term Sormcast players and drive them away by destroying the thing they love, it'll cost them a lot more in the long run. We're already here, giving them money for this product, it behooves them to keep us onboard until they can get us comfortable with the slow and steady changeover.

The slow-burn to phase out the models matches how GW is already doing things. Anybody remember how at the beginning of 2020 everybody was saying that AoS 2 was actually in a pretty good place as far as balance was concerned, and they didn't really want a new edition? Then Tzeentch, KO, and Seraphon got updated, and Lumineth was released, and now a year later folks are ready for an update because the game balance is out of wack? Lots of people said Psychic Awakening did the same thing to 40K.

I'm pretty sure we'll get at least one good edition with our classic SCE models before they start moving past them.

 

[CommissarRotke]

13 hours ago, OkayestDM said:

Yndrasta is amazing. I really hope we get other angel Stormcast. Prosecutors were an early favorite of mine. I suspect that characters like her and the Celestant-Prime are going to become the Stormcast equivalent to 40k's Primarchs, and I'm all about it. I would be especially happy if she, like the Celestant-Prime, isn't tied to any specific Stormhost, but that feels a bit like wishful thinking on my part.

I wouldn't be happy if they gave AOS a Primarch equivalent (we do have literal gods you can go meet), but Yndrasta being the "Celestial Spear" does imply there are other Celestants under the Prime who'd be different weapons like Sword, Shield, Hammer, etc.