AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[BestestOne]

6 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I never used to use allies but lately I am realizing their utility.  

Now with Khorne you can get some units to far flung corners of the table with summoning via Blood Tithe.  But I have used gutrot spume and five kings with good success with the Legion of Azgorh.   They’re solid.   You could also get in a Plague Priest from the Skaven too; his prayers are good for anti hordes and not spells so Khorne won’t mind 🤮

I'm glad to hear that this has some merit even if it isn't "optimal". This might be the wrong place to ask but when some units are considered subpar how much does that actually translate to gameplay. 

If for example the Mighty Skullcrushers are considered worse than Wrathmongers will I be at a huge disadvantage picking them because I like the model, or is every unit still somewhat useful just a little bit less efficient.

[Grimrock]

19 minutes ago, BestestOne said:

I'm glad to hear that this has some merit even if it isn't "optimal". This might be the wrong place to ask but when some units are considered subpar how much does that actually translate to gameplay. 

If for example the Mighty Skullcrushers are considered worse than Wrathmongers will I be at a huge disadvantage picking them because I like the model, or is every unit still somewhat useful just a little bit less efficient.

It can vary from unit to unit, but in Khorne usually it only means you'll have to do some extra work to build around the deficiencies and emphasize the strengths. Using your example, which as an aside I should say that skulleapers are actually quite good, you might want to make sure you have a bloodstoker to compensate for them being generally quite slow. Maybe a Slaughterborn battalion to help increase their resilience. That sort of thing. One of the things I love about the Khorne book is pretty much everything can be built around in one way or another and there are a lot of little buffs everywhere that can take a mediocre unit and make it a star. Some things might take ore work than others, but that's part of the fun of making the list.

[kolos]

Hi friends.Can you tell me what I should buy to what I already have? i have: 1 khorgorat,30 bloodreavers,5 bloodwarriors,mighty lord of khorne ,bloodsecrator,bloodstocker,scullgrinder,slaugterpriest,6 mighty scullcrushers,1 bloodthirster.

[ogarrah]

2 hours ago, kolos said:

Hi friends.Can you tell me what I should buy to what I already have? i have: 1 khorgorat,30 bloodreavers,5 bloodwarriors,mighty lord of khorne ,bloodsecrator,bloodstocker,scullgrinder,slaugterpriest,6 mighty scullcrushers,1 bloodthirster.

I would get some flesh hounds and bloodletters, more battleline is always good

[Lord Krungharr]

12 hours ago, kolos said:

Hi friends.Can you tell me what I should buy to what I already have? i have: 1 khorgorat,30 bloodreavers,5 bloodwarriors,mighty lord of khorne ,bloodsecrator,bloodstocker,scullgrinder,slaugterpriest,6 mighty scullcrushers,1 bloodthirster.

You have a great start and many good directions to go.  I might recommend 1 more Slaughterpriest and another unit of Blood Warriors, then you can make a Gore Pilgrims battalion and that would have your 3 Battleline units already.  If you then get 2 units of Skullreapers, you could also make the Skulltake Battalion to include your Bloodstoker and Khorgorath.  That would be a pretty great mortal army with lots of bodies and good synergy.  

I also second the notion of getting some Flesh Hounds and/or Bloodletters either as battleline, or for summoning.  It does come in handy!  Maybe Karanak and a unit of Flesh Hounds.  Karanak is just plain cool, and pretty good on the table.  And if he gets in range of his 'quarry' he can summon a unit of Flesh Hounds for free!

[Lord_Skrolk]

Hey, hope everyone is staying safe, using this quarantine to get back into Sigmar (left right before Khorne got the updated battletome, ironically). Picked up the battletome and want to get back in. I LOVE the Khorne Daemon models, but don't want to take many mortals if I don't have to.

Looking over recent conversations in this thread, it seems most competitive lists are built around blocks of mortals getting buffed to have tons of extra attacks. Can a list focused around any of the Daemons (either big like multiple Bloodthirsters, or smaller ones like Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers) be great? I saw that the Bloodletter billion mortal wounds strategy got nerfed from where it used to be. What kind of synergies and general ideas should I be focusing on for a Daemons based list?

[Grimrock]

11 minutes ago, Lord_Skrolk said:

Hey, hope everyone is staying safe, using this quarantine to get back into Sigmar (left right before Khorne got the updated battletome, ironically). Picked up the battletome and want to get back in. I LOVE the Khorne Daemon models, but don't want to take many mortals if I don't have to.

Looking over recent conversations in this thread, it seems most competitive lists are built around blocks of mortals getting buffed to have tons of extra attacks. Can a list focused around any of the Daemons (either big like multiple Bloodthirsters, or smaller ones like Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers) be great? I saw that the Bloodletter billion mortal wounds strategy got nerfed from where it used to be. What kind of synergies and general ideas should I be focusing on for a Daemons based list?

I believe a tyrants of blood battalion with 3-4 bloodthirsters in the reapers of vengeance sub faction is generally viewed as our most competitive option. One or two insensate, skarbrand, and either a wrath or unfettered depending on which you prefer. After that it's usually a small gore pilgrims for battleline and support, but I think you could run flesh hounds for battleline instead. Either way with skull altar at least one or two slaughter priests are pretty much mandatory and a bloodsecrator is always nice. The judgements are pretty solid as well. The main thrust of the list is to get all the thirsters into big targets and then attack like 6 times in a row without your opponent being able to respond, hopefully gutting them enough to make sure they can't fight back. 

[ogarrah]

38 minutes ago, Lord_Skrolk said:

Looking over recent conversations in this thread, it seems most competitive lists are built around blocks of mortals getting buffed to have tons of extra attacks. 

On the contrary, our best competitive lists are 'thirster based. We just like discussing all the different ways you can build a mortal list. I'm a mortal fan myself, so I don't know much about daemons, but the Baleful Blood Slaughterhost or Reapers of Vengeance are the best ones to build a bloodthirster spam list around.

[Lord_Skrolk]

21 minutes ago, ogarrah said:

On the contrary, our best competitive lists are 'thirster based. We just like discussing all the different ways you can build a mortal list. I'm a mortal fan myself, so I don't know much about daemons, but the Baleful Blood Slaughterhost or Reapers of Vengeance are the best ones to build a bloodthirster spam list around.

Lovely, cheers to you and Grimrock!

Here is what I'm working on:

Leader:

Bloodsecrator (+1 attack seems to be for all Khorne so can pump up the Bloodletters or Bloodthirsters)

Slaughterpriest

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (General with Thermal Rider Cloak for maximizing threat range)

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster

Battleline:

Flesh Hounds ×5

Flesh Hounds ×5

Bloodletter ×30

Other:

Bloodcrushers ×6 (to get the d3 MW on the charge)

Wrath-Axe prayer

Tyrants of Blood (new name!) battalion 

Reapers of Vengeance

 

(Under no illusions about picking Sigmar back up and being even decent, watching battle reports and looking through my battletome to get experience in the meantime but can't wait to get my Bloodthirsters back out there!)

Edited June 1, 2020 by Lord_Skrolk

[theDon]

4 hours ago, Lord_Skrolk said:

Hey, hope everyone is staying safe, using this quarantine to get back into Sigmar (left right before Khorne got the updated battletome, ironically). Picked up the battletome and want to get back in. I LOVE the Khorne Daemon models, but don't want to take many mortals if I don't have to.

Looking over recent conversations in this thread, it seems most competitive lists are built around blocks of mortals getting buffed to have tons of extra attacks. Can a list focused around any of the Daemons (either big like multiple Bloodthirsters, or smaller ones like Bloodletters and Bloodcrushers) be great? I saw that the Bloodletter billion mortal wounds strategy got nerfed from where it used to be. What kind of synergies and general ideas should I be focusing on for a Daemons based list?

Hey there, 

my competerive list is build around the Bloodthirsters. 
 

Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance 

Leaders: 

Wrath of Khorne BT (General, Skullshard Mantle, Mage Eater) 2 Counter Spells on him

BT of i R 

BT of u F (Crimson Crown) get always 6“ pile in for free

Skarbrand

slaughterpriest (blood sacrifice) get early as possible 4-5 BTP to get an extra attack or move 

slaughterpriest (Killing frenzy) better chances for the AOE Dmg of BT of i R

 

Battleline:

10x Bloodreavers

10xBloodreavers

30xBloodreavers

Squad of 10 to hold home objective 

Squad of 30 as a Defensive wall and to get blood sacrifice on 

Battalion:

Tyrants of Blood (attack chain for BT)

 Judgement:

Hexgorger Skulls (anti Magic)

 

2000points and 6 drops 

 

try to get 4 BTP in round 2-3 is the key for the extra attack

in the end Game always summon 5Bloodletters for 2BTP and use them as blockers to bind ur opponent for 1round

 

in tournaments with 3 Games most of the time i go 2-1 or 3-0

and in tournaments with 5Games 4-1

 

 

[RuneBrush]

So I'm a little out of date having not touched my Bloodbound army for ages (as in I've not touched them since 2nd edition dropped).

I'm thinking of dusting them off and using them for a more narrative style army and wondering if books like Slaves to Darkness has opened up any new mortal generals or other units that work well with the army?  Composition wise, if memory serves my army is pretty much pure mortal (with a few daemonic things to be summoned on), but focused on blood warriors rather than reavers.

[TimeToWaste85]

Hey RuneBrush; you can get a big blob of “run and charge” Blood Warriors easily: pick goretide as your “chapter”, take a big blob of them (maybe 20 due to spacing) and have a Bloodstoker whip them. Include some Wrathmongers for +1A and a Gore Pilgrims detachment as well for the Bloodsecrator (improved in 2.0 book) and watch the blood flow. 

[Reuben Parker]

There’s a few builds floating round with large amounts of buffed marauders which have done well and a Kharkadrak General. They’ve been discussed on this group earlier so if you do a search should find them. In general I think Khorne allegiance abilities are significantly stronger than STD for the new units. 

[Grimrock]

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

So I'm a little out of date having not touched my Bloodbound army for ages (as in I've not touched them since 2nd edition dropped).

I'm thinking of dusting them off and using them for a more narrative style army and wondering if books like Slaves to Darkness has opened up any new mortal generals or other units that work well with the army?  Composition wise, if memory serves my army is pretty much pure mortal (with a few daemonic things to be summoned on), but focused on blood warriors rather than reavers.

There are definitely some excellent StD units for Khorne. For leaders, the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak is a beast in the army if you make him your general in Goretide and give him the dimensional blade. The +1 damage trait applies to both of his melee weapons, and the -3 rend on the halberd lets him blender pretty much everything. The Daemon Prince with mark of Khorne is also pretty excellent with a similar loadout and his command ability is really nasty when you're facing another combat army. Archaon is mind blowing in Khorne but still requires an army to be built around him. 

Otherwise the new rules for chaos marauders make them probably the best troop choice for any chaos mortal army period, and they're excellent in khorne with all the available buffs. The Chaos Warshrine is a great choice if you're taking any StD units as it also benefits from the Skull Altar prayer rerolls, and getting a re-roll when using the prayer of chaos undivided (3+, StD mortal unit gets full rerolls on attack and wound rolls) is amazing. Combine the shrine, marauders, and some other buff units like a bloodsecrator and/or bloodstoker and you'll have an incredibly consistent blender with an absurd threat range. The shrine itself is even a passable beatstick now and if it gets a few buffs it can do some real damage.

[Lord Krungharr]

Why do people seem to prefer the Reapers of Vengeance to the Bloodlords?  I think the Halo of Blood to guarantee a strike first is super good, plus the extra move for the general.  Then you could also take Khartoth the Bloodhunger or ally in the Magic Cat for extra strike first insurance.  Attacking twice is certainly good but doesn't that require a CP too?   

Also not convinced on Slaughter Priests.  I think I'd rather have an extra Bloodsecrator or two to spread more attacks all over the table.

 

[Grimrock]

54 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Why do people seem to prefer the Reapers of Vengeance to the Bloodlords?  I think the Halo of Blood to guarantee a strike first is super good, plus the extra move for the general.  Then you could also take Khartoth the Bloodhunger or ally in the Magic Cat for extra strike first insurance.  Attacking twice is certainly good but doesn't that require a CP too?   

Also not convinced on Slaughter Priests.  I think I'd rather have an extra Bloodsecrator or two to spread more attacks all over the table.

 

Personally I'd say it's because one round of attacks from a bloodthirster generally isn't enough to kill your target. Against a 4+ save a wrath or unfettered thirster will do about 8 damage unbuffed or 10ish damage buffed, which leaves most units or monsters alive, and bloodthirsters really aren't particularly tanky so the counter punch might just kill them. The double attack bumps the damage enough to pretty much guarantee they'll kill what they hit and survive through the combat phase. If the reaper thirsters can get one good round of combat they can kill 2-3 of the enemy heavy hitters and might just be able to ensure the opponent doesn't have anything strong enough to kill them later. Plus the strike first is only on the one bloodthirster. Doesn't matter much on the Khorne turn, but on the opponents turn they can just avoid or shoot that one bloodthirster and then fighting the others is much easier. In Reapers all of the bloodthirsters present the same threat regardless of whose turn it is. 

For slaughterpriests, honestly to me they're the crux of the army. Killing frenzy or bronzed flesh can nearly be as good as +1 attack from the bloodsecrator, but unlike the bloodsecrator they provide a lot more for the army than just the buffs. Their mortal wound output is fantastic and provides a substantial way to kill things at range. The utility from Blood Bind has won me numerous games when opponents think they're safe hovering just outside of threat range or screening their important pieces. They also give access to the judgements which are absolutely fantastic. I'll definitely take a bloodsecrator in the vast majority of armies, but slaughterpriests are always the first thing I grab.

[Choombatta]

Blood Lords with Tyrants of Blood though, allows all of your Bloodthirsters to attack before anyone else, and in Khorne players turn, they still get to pick another unit to fight before the opponent gets to attack with their first unit.

It seems to be a glass cannon effect though, as Grimrock said. If your Bloodthirsters do not kill their target, they are vulnerable to the return attacks.

I have tried it out a few times, and while it is very fun to play, it can also backfire when the dice rolls are bad.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Choombatta

[Roark]

On 5/31/2020 at 11:19 AM, Grimrock said:

One of the things I love about the Khorne book is pretty much everything can be built around in one way or another and there are a lot of little buffs everywhere that can take a mediocre unit and make it a star.

This. For example, I was super depressed about Bloodreavers just being wound/Tithe tokens that take a long time to paint. Then I started using Dark Feast, double Totems, Sphiranx ally and multiple Wrathmonger units and they actually kill stuff (in addition to board control, screening and Tithe generation). They're no longer just a Battleline filler for me.

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Also not convinced on Slaughter Priests.  I think I'd rather have an extra Bloodsecrator or two to spread more attacks all over the table.

For me, Slaughterpriests are possibly the best value unit in our entire roster. They can do 3 different things every Hero phase that the enemy can't do a damn thing to stop.

[Lord Krungharr]

Well, I think I might have to make a Slaughterpriest or two then and give them another try these days.  I used to have a couple.  But they're an easy one to kitbash.   

Also good points on the Reapers of Vengeance.  I haven't had too much Tyrants experience yet and that's a great point about killing off the Halo of Blood one first in the enemy turn.  Time for more practice!

[drkrash]

I ran Bloodlords at tournaments for almost a year, using Tyrants and 4 Thirsters including Skarbrand.  It was loads of fun but didn't win nearly enough.  The biggest problem? If my opponent knew that taking out the right Thirster stopped the "attack first" thing, that guy was dead.  Then I was left with "just" Tyrants.

I switched to Tyrants and Reapers a few months ago and quickly became feared locally.   I'm still attacking all at once, but now buffed Skarbrand attacks twice at the end.

Furthermore, the anti-magic abilities of Reapers are better than the anti-hero abilities of Bloodlords.

I still like to play Bloodlords, but Reapers is better for Tyrants of Blood.  If you really want attack first, there's an artefact that gives you a 4+ chance to attack first.  Use it with Reapers and have (half) your cake and eat it too.

As for Slaughterpriests and Bloodsecrators, you obviously need both.  Two years ago, I ran 2 secrators to cover the board, but it was an inefficient use of points.  But priests give unbind and dispel, have potentially 3 prayers each (including a judgment) that can't be messed with, and have arguably our best ranged attack in the whole army (near an altar: 75% chance to do d6 Mortal within 16").

[BaylorCorvette]

Is the "Boundless Hunt" battalion from Wrath and Rapture still a legal matched play battalion? The warscroll builder on the Warhammer Community page lists it at 130 pts, so I assume it is still a valid battalion.

Edited June 2, 2020 by BaylorCorvette

[ogarrah]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:25 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

Also not convinced on Slaughter Priests.  I think I'd rather have an extra Bloodsecrator or two to spread more attacks all over the table.

Slaughterpriests are AMAZING. They have great prayers and give you access to the Judgements of Khorne. Their prayers can't be unbound and their judgements can't be dispelled they're one of the best things Khorne has going for them. 3 prayers (counting the judgement roll) and the ability to attempt an unbind of a spell AND attempt to dispell an endless spell. They're amazing. If you find that your Bloodsecrator's range lacking consider taking Gore Pilgrims. That +8" range on the Bloodsecrators abilities is epic.

[cbok]

Hello mates!

Everybody is talking about bloodlords vs reapers of vengeance in a bloodthirsters' list.

But, what is your opinion about the new slaughterhost of baleful lords in the everchosen book?

5 bloodthirsters, run and charge...

I think it may be better against shooting lists, but you are expose to bad rolls with the bloodthirsters.

Reapers are more dangerous but you die to a shooting list. I think the decision depends of your local meta.

[Xasz]

@drkrash

How do you feel about Baleful Lords?

I am like one BT short for a complete list and on paper it seems like an even better fit than Reaper+Tyrants for a monster mash setup.

[drkrash]

1 hour ago, Xasz said:

@drkrash

How do you feel about Baleful Lords?

I am like one BT short for a complete list and on paper it seems like an even better fit than Reaper+Tyrants for a monster mash setup.

It's not. 

Don't get me wrong; it doesn't stink and it's so much fun to see your opponent sweat as 5 Thirsters bear down on them.  The CA is better with Fury and WoK than Rage.

The problem is that the 5 Thirsters + Tyrants + minimum battle line costs 1700.  The remaining 300 points should be spent on a priest and secrator, leaving 80 for what? Maybe a judgment or more Reavers? It's a playable list for sure, but it can be taken apart too easily with nothing for backup.  If you want Skarbrand on the list, minimum cost jumps to 1810, meaning a secrator (1930) and more Reavers (2000).  Basically the same problem.

But your "monster mash" should be about damage output, right? I run Reapers/Tyrants/Skarbrand, + secrator + wrathmongers.  As long as screen him, I spend the 1st round getting Skarbrand into position, usually to the biggest, scariest opposing unit (preferably a blob).  On Round 2, I charge in (if I go first) or hope to be within 6" of the enemy and within 16" of the Fury Thirster (if I go second).  Then I spend the command point to have him attack twice.  All the Thirsters go at once and he goes last.  3 dice with Carnage on a 1+ means a guaranteed 24 Mortals.  Then I do it again for another guaranteed 24 Mortals.  48 Mortals on top of what my other 3 Thirsters are doing at the same time.  That's not an auto-win, but it is a promise that your opponent will need to re-configure his whole strategy (and ****** about how broken Skarbrand is).

Baleful Lords is fun and I like using it, but in terms of damage output, it's still not better.