drkrash

I agree with everything Salyx said. I play Khorne demons (have for 6 years now) and even in this Battleline-focused season, BT spam is still a thing that works. I love the idea of Bloodletters and own a zillion of them (back from 1.0, when they were broken and dangerous), but I never ever use them. Same with Crushers. Until we have our new book, "demons" is BT and doggos, joined by Secrator, Wrathmongers, and a priest.

I run 3 BTs + Skar. I prefer Hounds to Reavers for battleline. The Reavers may be board control and they're easy Tithe, but the Hounds get Unbinds, more movement, slightly better attacks, and reroll 1s near BTs. However, I did definitely run into a numbers problem in a couple match-ups.

I had a game last night where the dice favored the 6+ spell shrug and it didn't suck. I will say I liked even having the chance to just cancel a spell successfully cast.

Nope. Only 3 on the second one.

So despite the new Invocation Warscrolls and the new ways they disappear, they *also* still disappear at the end of the round still *and* they can be dispelled? Why would we ever take these?

As a greater daemon, he re-rolls 1s on all his attacks, charge or not. Has this changed?

I had one game in which the Viper was solid as a hero killer and blocker and 2 other games where it attacked my aelves. I still like it. No question that it's value improved immensely in 3.0.

Regardless of wording, the +1 limit is restricted solely to Hit and Wound rolls, not Saves.

I'm confident that this is a game vocab that is going to officially change to everything being a "prayer." They all use the same mechanics, after all. I'm disappointed that our Invocations can be dispelled AND they still often disappear at the end of the round. I don't recall if they move in each Hero Phase like an Endless Spell.

Battlepacks are just the new, awkward name for Open Play, Narrative Play, and Matched Play. There are reviews out there that describe them. Narrative Play now has a much more detailed (and hopefully somewhat more balanced) Path to Glory. Matched Play has eliminated all warscroll battalions and restricted things to core battalions. You still have a battleplan (3 in the core, more to come in GHB presumably). In addition to this, your army list has a grand strategy that you get 3 points for completing, and each turn you have a "that turn" strategy that is worth 2 points.

I'm less interested in wondering about what changes the new rules will provoke for a new battletome because it's safe to say that we'll be playing with these rules for probably a solid 8-12 months before seeing a new book. I'm thinking about how to play the warscrolls we have with the rules we're seeing. The smaller board size slightly mitigates the shooting issue and I think magic has always been less of a problem for us. The question that remains for me is: will there be some Command Ability that benefits melee armies against shooting? The leaked rules about Reinforcement points, combined with Coherency rules, will greatly affect mortal lists. Daemon lists will be largely the same except for the loss of Tyrants (and no good replacement among the generic battalions).

I noticed it as well, but in the context of the voice-over, it was referring to the beginning of the Age of Sigmar, when Khorne was the Big Bad. I didn't take it as a hint of a comeback. On the contrary, I see no place at all for Khorne in the near future in the way the narrative is shaping up.

I'll offer a bit of an alternative take on this. I don't disagree that the lower parts of the table are overall better. However, before the meta changed and my BTs were getting shot off the board, my Tyrants list often saw Blood Tithe at Round 2 to be around 2 and then at the start of Round 3 to be 8 or more. I often didn't want to "waste" it, so I summoned BTs a lot. I concede that I don't think the tactic would work as well anymore. Unless Tithe changes significantly as a mechanic in 3.0, add me to the list of people who would love to see our extra points not go away when we spend tithe. That alone would add significantly to our tactical options.

I never noticed it before, but after re-reading it, I would agree with Salyx that both rolls get the +2. This is interesting. In the past when I ran Tyrant Reapers, I'd make my Rage Thirster the General so I'd spread around the units that could Unbind. That's still a viable idea, but knowing that both Unbinds get a +2 is a strong incentive to make WoK the General.

They are two separate effects.: one at +2 and one that can make people blow up. You have to declare which you're using.

Except that the prayers in the list are not called Invocations. It doesn't seem to be the same as Khorne. It looks like you only get 1 prayer total now.

I just picked up DoK a couple months ago. This last sentence here is the summation of my first love, Khorne. DoK has given me what I love about Khorne and made it more durable. I'm hoping we don't lose too much of that.

Hello all; new to this thread. I have an opportunity to get in on DoK for a decent price. Below is what I'd be getting. It' s not even 2K, and it's a pretty random collection. What I'm looking for is advice on what I'd need to turn this start into a decent list. Doesn't need to be fiercely competitive - just "not suck." Our local meta is not especially shooty, though there is a decent amount of strong magic. If it matters, I'm a competitive Khorne player normally (daemons), so that's the playstyle I'm used to. TIA in for any advice. Morathi 20 x Witch Aelves (unbuilt) 5 x Doomfire Warlocks 5 x Khinerai (unbuilt) 5 x Blood Sisters (unbuilt) 1 x Cauldron of Blood (old model)

Reapers of Vengeance 3 BT + Skarbrand Tyrants Priest Secrator 5 Hounds 3x10 Reavers 5 Wrathmongers Hex Skulls This list works best against someone who is not fully aware of Skarbrand's power level. If they are well-informed and have shooting, he'll get shot off the board before he does much. Otherwise, screen him with Reavers in front and Mongers behind. Aim him at the desired target and make sure you can get there in Round 2 and delete them with 6 charged up attacks (avg. 48 Mortal). The list is a Beta Strike list. I usually try to reserve the other BTs so I can have them attack together, but if you fear Skarbrand's imminent demise, you could charge them in on Round 1, just to try to psyche the opponent into leaving Skar alone in the face of a more immediate threat. Gpod luck! (Fair note: my actual tournament performance with this list depends almost entirely on how well the opponent knows Skar. In the present shooting heavy meta, no BT list is great. Magic is not as much of an issue; this list has plenty of anti-magic. Also, others will tell you not to bring 4 BTs; they'll tell you to do 3 and add Gore Pilgrims. That's a great list too, but I can't make it work for me. Finally, in response to your question, you won't have enough leader slots to make Dark Feast work well with 4 BTs.)

Not if it's your turn. They occur in a "start of phase" phase before the actual combat phase. You'd then get a "regular" activation. (I am presuming you're using Bloodlords in this scenario.)

Both lists are OK. What are the bloodletters for? It's a lot of points invested in something to hold objectives. Khorne doesn't hold objectives: he kills what's on them, scores them, and keeps moving.

That's a solid list there.

I'd like to use more. (Sadly) one of our fastest units. Decent number of attacks. Good screen or objective grabber. Subject to Daemon buffs. (Crappy) ranged attack. And UNBIND/DISPEL!!!

Bloodcrushers aren't very good. As a unit of 6, they are OK when they charge, but they are one of the worst cavalry units overall. Skullcrushers are better, but they are not daemons.

Magic is not a problem. I mean, I imagine it would struggle with Lumineth, but I won't need to deal with that locally. We have two Seraphon players, and their bonuses make it tough to deal with, but not impossible. Against any other "regular" magic, this list shuts ****** down. I've had two games where my opponent stopped trying to cast spells because it just wasn't worth it. Shooting is without question the match-up I have nothing against...though this is a Khorne problem, not a list problem. I'll likely go up against KO in this tournament and it will be an un-fun couple hours. I have literally nothing: I hope for the best to survive to get in and then hope to get in some good lick before I die. Skarbrand Is *such* a killer. I screen him until Round 2, moving him into position. My goal is to get him in range of the unit that is likely to be the biggest problem - and ideally with another enemy unit close by. Buffed with mongers and secrator, and with Reapers' CA, he can dump a guaranteed 48 mortal. The anti-Skarbrand tactic is to shoot him off the board (can't do anything about that) or to hide your good units so he can't reach them. Generally, in the latter case, I'll use Skarbrand anyway to destroy screening units and then keep moving him forward. There is *always* a psychological effect in rolling 3 dice and then taking a whole enemy unit off the board at once. (In fact, the list relies a lot on psychology of fear as a whole, which is really interesting to watch.) The other three thirsters are the tool box. Fury with the Crown sets up the 6" pile in when charging seems unlikely and to avoid a fierce attack on my opponent's turn (so I can attack first). He also has a decent ranged attack. Likewise WoK has ranged attacks and a decent CA (though I rarely use it). These two, plus a priest and doggos, make this practically a Khorne shooting army! The Rage thirster is the other damage dealer. None of them is *bad* at dealing damage, and Tyrants keeps them scary. They're very fragile, but at least their damage table doesn't make them suck too bad (except the Rage thirster's heads exploding - that starts to get weak fast). Basic strategy: at set-up, screen the thirsters against charges, move into position to kill what needs to die. Flesh hounds usually do a fast flank on a side objective as a distraction. It usually works, but it's under-utilizing what they could do, I think. Reavers are expendable. They screen and then they get out of the way. Frankly, what they do next depends on battle plan, but I never try to use them as an actual weapon. They screen or they move to hold an objective and die. In fact, everything on the list eventually dies. I just need to score enough points before they do. For Blood Tithe, I feel like I still need to use it better. Occasionally, I use it for a move or an attack, but mostly it sits there and I summon another thirster (this happens almost every game). The reason for this is that I generally watch it grow to 1-2 around Round 2 or 3, and then at the start of Round 3 or 4, it's suddenly up to 7 or more. I hate wasting it, so unless I see a clear plan to move or attack, I just summon another Rage Thirster and try to use it as an endgame clean up unit That was probably a lot more then you wanted to know, but there it is.