mmimzie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said: This post shows a lack of understanding of the meta. That's fine, not everyone is a tournament player, but you can't make comments about the evolution of the meta if you weren't in it and watching it closely throughout the Age of Sigmar. Firstly, I'll address Sylvaneth; Sylvaneth sold like absolute hotcakes after their release. This is not necessarily because of strong rules. It was the first tome that pivoted to the new allegiance stuff including spell lores. Also the treelord kit is gorgeous and the aesthetic really appealed to many people (moreso than naked mohawk dwarves...). It has been so far also the most appealing army to female players - I've seen at least 5, and my wife told me her favorite model was my Treelord. Not to say that the rules were strong .. but yeah they were. When it came out it had tools nobody else did. It presented one drop armies to exploit deployment. The forests absolutely ruined peoples lives. It was even more elite than Stormcast at a time when the game was still hung up on all spells being some form of D3 mortals. Simply put, the meta just didn't have the mortals to keep up with Sylvaneth armies. Then the "21 Kurnoth hunters" mixed order lists started to show up at the top of every tournament list. Sylvaneth was the hot ticket even up until LVO2017, where they were the most common army at the tournemnt. Unfortunately a week later the Skyfires were released, Tzeentch took over the meta where it still exists today. Later in the second GH they tried to move the points around, lowering everything while increasing Kurnoth which I expected to make a bigger impact but it just hasn't; Tzeentch continues to keep Sylvaneth down. Now let's talk about KO .. they were dropped into the meta as a shooting army while Kunnin Rukk and Skyfires were dominant. Unfortunately their rules were a bit all over the place and it took some time for people to figure them out and get the models ready. When they first launched they were absolutely brutal. Just broken brutality. Just as people figured this out, the GH2017 dropped along with heavy nerfs. Luckily, the whole meta (other than tzeentch) came down hard after GH2017 so people figured out the clown car list which has been breaking the top 10 in many tournaments. That being said its important to note that this list could have been done BETTER before the nerfs, so saying they are doing better after the nerfs is silly. It just takes time for people to figure out how to best play their favorite armies competitively. To be clear, I'm not trying to argue for @Spiny Norman. I think that GW wants all the armies to be good. If all the armies are good, then one person is likely to buy more than one army. If an army is bad, then it appeals to less people and therefore they sell less of it. But lets say you are like me and just not into Tzeentch; making them good or bad is not going to encourage me to start that army. But say I really like BCR, but the army is really bad in the meta, which deters me from starting it. If they suddenly made BCR very good, then I might start them as a new army, etc. The longer BCR are good, the longer I play them, the more I want, the more I buy more models and test them out. I think their goal is to make all armies equally good, with different unique fun and thematic play styles. Sure, they may error on the side of making things more powerful than less powerful at first, but that is because they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot and release an army that is maddeningly bad and watch the sales tank. But at the same time, they are getting really good at play testing before release. DoK for example - they talked about some tweaks they made for them, and they clearly nerfed the face off Blood Stalkers for fear of what might happen if Morathi lets them shoot twice - and at launch they are borderline unplayable at their points. Its going to be very hard to judge Idoneth because they are a very new and unique army. If it sounds like they have a lot of power, but this is how all elf/aeldar armies operate. Lots of power but very difficult to play correctly. Idoneth appear to be a mixture of several things. They kind of have a high elf look to them and they are likely to have a lot of synergy and power like High Elves. They also appear to have some death themes with some control spells like the new death lore. Their Calvary remind me of dark elf cold ones - insanely hard to kill in combat. They also have a battle round table which is common for dark elves/Drukhari (but different in that it is not cumulative). The ship ties in the 6++ common to dark elves as well, with it being terrain that causes mortals which is like Nurgle, though I think they are just trying to make terrain features a part of more armies. Is it going to be crazy strong and break the meta? Probably not. It's not likely going to displace changehost on it's own. Its may damper KO and Kunnin Rukk lists with its new shooting rules, but its impossible to predict. If it's like most elves, it will be a powerhouse as long as everything goes exactly according to plan, but fall apart very quickly if mistakes are made. How do you make this post and more or less everything I have to say. Sticker came out and didn't do super well people said it was because all the stuff they had. However when they came out, you, me, and nuin where telling everyone they honestly aren't all that crazy. Even LVO while they were popular there. They did not preform to thier large demographic male up of the scene. They had 1, 5th place list. Neat.... Other than that mixed listed and stormcast where wiping up the scene. So they were meta breaking, and as you said they sold on looks. So yeah dumbest had cool tool, but in execution they weren't good enough to really net them serious tournament dominance. Heck, if they were so good how come out of like 25% (educated guessed number) of the player at LVO were slyvaneth, but only 1 cracked the top few, and didn't even win. If they were good and had that much of a showing atleast 3 or 4 should have been up there... just based on pure statistics... Now onto KO, note I didn't say they weren't good when they first came out. I literally said no one did well with them until after nerfs. I didn't say there weren't strong when they came out. Then even your next line echoes my thoughts on what GW is trying to do with releases. So honestly, I'm pretty disappointed in your comment. Firstly, because all I do is follow the meta. Heck I haven't been placing since I couldnt make LVO 2017. That said I've been lurking and watching tournament results since the laugh of the general hand book. 2nd is that while my post was pretty poorly typed, you make it sound like I disagree with anything you said. In fact you open disrespectfully with "shows a lack of understanding of the meta"... Which I think my post shows a pretty perfect understanding of the meta, and if you read my post and yours side by side... or if you read my post really at all... you'd get that. And finally, because i did like many of your comment on this forum, and have enjoyed your discourse. To have you just bash on my comment <. < when clearly it says pretty much everything you did is pretty meh. Very disappointing @WoollyMammoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalassic Monstrosity Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I'm kind of torn whether I want to paint the Idoneth with normal skin tones (normal for the Idoneth) or a blue shade like that of Dungeons and Dragons-style aquatic elves. Anyone try blue skin on anything before? How did it look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkbelly Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said: I'm kind of torn whether I want to paint the Idoneth with normal skin tones (normal for the Idoneth) or a blue shade like that of Dungeons and Dragons-style aquatic elves. Anyone try blue skin on anything before? How did it look? Here is one of my Sea Elf models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalassic Monstrosity Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sharkbelly said: Here is one of my Sea Elf models. Oh, righteous! That's actually pretty much what I was thinking of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid_Nine Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I'm interested to see if the leviadon has any other builds to it, like different weapons or effects. That huge bubble of 24" is great for dang near everything, but something else would be fun as well. (Also, great way to make sure everyone has a centerpiece model!) i keep forgetting that I have to wait a whole nother week to get my hands on that battletome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandzak-Miniatures Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 36 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said: I'm interested to see if the leviadon has any other builds to it, like different weapons or effects. That huge bubble of 24" is great for dang near everything, but something else would be fun as well. (Also, great way to make sure everyone has a centerpiece model!) i keep forgetting that I have to wait a whole nother week to get my hands on that battletome I suspect there will be something else. Would be a wasted opportunity and mold/ tooling for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 It's interesting that we haven't seen other builds yet for it. Maybe today's Warhammer community post will be allopex and leviadon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 @mmimzie I can't really understand what you're trying to say but, I didn't mean to just bash you. We both agree that GW doesn't just make armies super strong and then just nerf them later, although KO is the only example that could be made, because they were super strong and then did get very nerfed, but I think this is just a mistake GW made while trying to get them right. I think the fact that they didn't do super well before the nerf was just a coincidence - was there even a major tournament between their release and the GH2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, Soulsmith said: It's interesting that we haven't seen other builds yet for it. Maybe today's Warhammer community post will be allopex and leviadon. Here's hoping! We seem to know the least about the Allopex, it wasn't featured in the battle report and wasn't talked much about in the lore/tactics segments either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsmith Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Yeah, I expect it to have some horrific on charge special rules and good damage from the actual allopex, then maybe a single ranged attack, 1 shot, 3/3, 1/2 rend and multiple damage. Like I would see them being what the akhelians ride to hunt down bigger creatures, firing harpoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incineroar87 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Is the 24 inch bubble for the Leviadon true ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Soulsmith said: Yeah, I expect it to have some horrific on charge special rules and good damage from the actual allopex, then maybe a single ranged attack, 1 shot, 3/3, 1/2 rend and multiple damage. Like I would see them being what the akhelians ride to hunt down bigger creatures, firing harpoons. Yea gw seems to really like the massive sea creature hunters theme, kharadron do the same in the sky. Not that I'm complaining I love the moby ****** era of whale hunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 30 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said: Is the 24 inch bubble for the Leviadon true ? I really have trouble to believe they would put a staunch defenders +++++ to a non-named non-character in a new army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amradiel Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I have not been this excited since the Kharadron overlords release. I hope that I won't be disappointed again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I wanna know who their allys will be. Maybe I'm lucky and they can ally with wanderers... that thing of allys for battleline as cheap units and good defense with turtle protection is driving me crazy. It would be nice to ally with all aelvs. So I would like to know what will they do with that aelvs of the free cities that they post that picture on Facebook. I thought they will eliminate all the old aelv factions but that picture kinda gave a new direction to put together all aelvs factions... it would be nice, so I could use my old wood elves, or at least I could expand them with some wanderers that could use sometime. Btw, maybe Leviadon doesn't has more options and is like changing 2 options of ranged weapons. I hope they don't make 2 different Leviadon because maybe I would buy both and that's too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkanaut Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Well DoK can ally with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.J Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 A lot of the existing alliances only work one way around sadly. So even though DoK can take them as allies they might not be able to include DoK as theirs. I'm sort of hoping they can ally with some of the old High Aelf factions, I've always wanted an excuse to own some Phoenix Guard. I doubt they'll get much choice though with them being quite subdued and secretive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasnad Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 New article, not really any new info. A little more lore, nice as always, and a small look at the leviadon stats. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/13/monsters-and-war-beasts-of-the-idoneth-deepkin-apr-12gw-homepage-post-1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid_Nine Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 hours ago, J.J said: Here's hoping! We seem to know the least about the Allopex, it wasn't featured in the battle report and wasn't talked much about in the lore/tactics segments either. nope, just showing the Leviadon's profile without the damage scaling: Stilll though, pretty neat that it has so many attacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Seems like Levaidon will have only one option of configuration. I see ranged attack a bit low, I thought it would have rend -1 but it has other things like the cover buff... we will see I was hoping to see more about sharks too, will have to wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasnad Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Think the leviadon will be used to buff nearby units with cover, and act as cover for more fragile units, as they will have to target the leviadon. And it looks like the eels have full command, would really like to know what the banner and musician does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 hours ago, ledha said: I really have trouble to believe they would put a staunch defenders +++++ to a non-named non-character in a new army. I really want to believe you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyOcean Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 The ranged attack of the harpoon is pretty underwhelming - I was expecting rend -1. I assume the sharp harpoon will be the same, meaning they would have a slightly different role than I expected. Presumably then they'll be more of a combat unit with shooting just as a supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Do you think they will put all the warscrolls on the app while releasing the preorder of the battletome?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, Hoseman said: Do you think they will put all the warscrolls on the app while releasing the preorder of the battletome?? They tend to put them all up the day the battletome releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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