The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[CommissarRotke]

16 minutes ago, Myrmidox said:

The manticor on the other hand is more fiercely and a beast with the features and the look of many animals, maybe an allegory for the still multiracial cities and a renewed fighting spirit to retake what is lost, kinda?

i think it could absolutely be something like that! the designers even state they didn't want Tahlia to be "classically military" which to me means she's an outsider instead of a noble or other kind of career-military. a manticore instead of a "nobler" mount like gryphon or dragon does make it feel like an allegory for Cities being cosmopolitan.

[SunStorm]

That was a good read for a breakdown of their thoughts going into the design process. 

I cannot wait to see what people do with these new kits for their own homebrew cities. 

 

[Marcvs]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/22/cities-of-sigmar-round-table-part-two-writing-the-background-and-lore/

Quote

The four different weapons you can equip [Tahlia] with in the kit are linked to the coup too.

Still a bit sad that they found no place in the rules for her weapons, after seeing so much lore being created about them

also fun how she's basically the military influencer of the Mortal Realms

Quote

She could see that sending convoys out in big long lines without adequate forces to protect them wasn’t working. The attrition rate was too high, so she decided to make these large shields (pavises) and improvised defences, and carry them with the army. It worked so well that word got back to Azyr and then the tactic got expedited everywhere…

 of course it'a bit shaky as lore-explanation for such a profound change of organisation in literally all of the Cities but that can't be avoided

[CommissarRotke]

16 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

of course it'a bit shaky as lore-explanation for such a profound change of organisation in literally all of the Cities but that can't be avoided

i could see this being propped up a couple ways:

-Hammerhal being Sigmar's de facto capital means anything happening in/with it will likely spread out to other Cities.

-Tahlia exposing traitors absolutely means those loyal (to Sigmar/Order/the people) will be inspired by her, and those not will likely suck up to be spared her watchful eye.

however something that really bothered me... they keep saying she killed 4 traitorous city leaders, but now the text is acting like her 'coup' is bad??

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

A neat litte thing I discovered about the new designs:

You know that diamond shape that is all over the new Cities shields and heraldry?

In heraldic terms, that is sometimes called a "fusil".

Makes me wonder if that's just a coincidence or if maybe they stumbled upon the connection while researching the term "fusilier" and felt very clever about the visual pun.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Clan's Cynic]

Not really in the business of shilling influencers, but I've been looking forward to seeing Cult of Paint's take on the new CoS stuff.

 

[CommissarRotke]

i appreciate he kept at least some kind of vibrant colors. idk if it's age or the oversaturation in Warhammer content (compared to early aughts) but seeing "grimdark" in relation to paint schemes just makes me roll my eyes now. I like that he layers the grit and dirt OVER the otherwise-lighter primary colors.

[Vagard]

Do we have a leak or at least an idea of the prices for the boxes? 

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, Vagard said:

Do we have a leak or at least an idea of the prices for the boxes? 

Won't know until the Monday before they go up for pre-order.

I don't think prices ever really leak, just 'guesstimates' people try and pass off which are rarely ever accurate to the pound.

[SirSalabean]

Hi hi, I have picked up the new set. I plan to do living city COS. How does this work as my understanding is the living city is also sylvaneth? Can COS have sylvaneth units in the army? Not really sure how these things work. Thank you!

[Clan's Cynic]

2 hours ago, SirSalabean said:

Hi hi, I have picked up the new set. I plan to do living city COS. How does this work as my understanding is the living city is also sylvaneth? Can COS have sylvaneth units in the army? Not really sure how these things work. Thank you!

They can't take Sylvaneth as Coalition units anymore unfortunately, but you can still take them as Allies like normal. Any Sylvaneth Allies also benefit from Hunters of the Hidden Paths ability. 

[EntMan]

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

They can't take Sylvaneth as Coalition units anymore unfortunately, but you can still take them as Allies like normal. Any Sylvaneth Allies also benefit from Hunters of the Hidden Paths ability. 

Unfortunately this coalition change, doubts over the future of Cities Dwarves, the squatting of Wanderers, as well as the upcoming glut of cheap Syvaneth models via Stormbringer magazine is moving me towards abandoning my Living City and going full Syvaneth.

[Gorthor21]

Welcome to the Wargrove

sylvaneth have a lot of ways to skirmish on their own.  I would pick the CoS units you want then take the sylvaneth units that would compliment that playstyle.

I want to use the spiterider lancers and cavaliers together to see how fast they would get stuck in.

[Clan's Cynic]

1 hour ago, EntMan said:

Unfortunately this coalition change, doubts over the future of Cities Dwarves, the squatting of Wanderers, as well as the upcoming glut of cheap Syvaneth models via Stormbringer magazine is moving me towards abandoning my Living City and going full Syvaneth.

GW upon getting more of your money due to the change:

[CommissarRotke]

@RyantheFett could you expand on your rumor thread comment?

i haven't heard anything much about the reception to new COS from creators/influencers, though I have noticed a lot of lamenting in individual comments.

[RyantheFett]

3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

@RyantheFett could you expand on your rumor thread comment?

i haven't heard anything much about the reception to new COS from creators/influencers, though I have noticed a lot of lamenting in individual comments.

Sure! Here are the biggest ones I can think of off the top of my head (at work so did this in a rush.

• Goonhammer: https://www.goonhammer.com/battletome-cities-of-sigmar-the-goonhammer-review/
• The Stormkeep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBUrQdZlNJQ
• The Honest Wargammer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoNYM39OyTw

All of them mention the separating of the races, how much more love humans got, and how most likely these units will be gone in the future. A lot of the comments also mention that.

They have another major reviewer, but felt that he went too out of the way to avoid talking about the subject. Have not finished his videos on Cities so maybe he does bring it up in the end, so he may get added to the list.

 

[SirSalabean]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:44 PM, Clan's Cynic said:

They can't take Sylvaneth as Coalition units anymore unfortunately, but you can still take them as Allies like normal. Any Sylvaneth Allies also benefit from Hunters of the Hidden Paths ability. 

Ok thank you!

[Arathorn185]

So while I find this utterly hilarious, I am not gonna lie, I am frustrated again. My Sigmar Army has gotten removed from the game again! For reference here:

Fantasy: Bretonnia (Coming back in Old World)

Age of Sigmar 1st Edition: Bretonnia-FreeGuild (I was planning on using Bretonnia (sense keyword shared) as a stepping stone to build FreeGuild army). Bretonnia lost FreeGuild keyword and then stuff like Order Knights got removed.

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition: Freeguild-Vampire Mercs. I transitioned to using Merc rules bought some Blood Knights, and otherwise. Relevant Mercs got removed from the game. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition Part 2: Shadowblade + Friends (Tempest Eye/Living City) I acquired some Stormcast, Wanderers, alongside other units and converted some of my Freeguild. Redid the army with a ShadowBlade Core + Assassin General. Realm Rules (Removal of Realm Facts, specifically Thermal Rider) ended that army. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd/3rd Edition: Shadowblade + DoK/Stormcast Vangaurd (Hal Kuron and Misthaven). I more embraced the Shadowblade theme of shifty shifty, and began using DoK new units Khainte Units and/or Stormcast Vangaurd Rules. Originally intended for Hal Kuron, but then Legends rules for Uglu Wizard Aelves from that boardgames I transitioned to Misthavn. 

Now ironically while Human Cavalry have returned, and alot of my hopes for genericier traits so my Assassin Generals wouldn’t feel meh. Shadowblade isn’t an army that can exist anymore. Furthermore Assassins only work with Aelf Units. Also I lost Stormcast Coalition. So like on principle I like new book and Bretonnia returning in ToW. But man getting my army removed from the game 5 times is book utterly hilarious and incredibly frustrating for me.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

34 minutes ago, Arathorn185 said:

So while I find this utterly hilarious, I am not gonna lie, I am frustrated again. My Sigmar Army has gotten removed from the game again! For reference here:

Fantasy: Bretonnia (Coming back in Old World)

Age of Sigmar 1st Edition: Bretonnia-FreeGuild (I was planning on using Bretonnia (sense keyword shared) as a stepping stone to build FreeGuild army). Bretonnia lost FreeGuild keyword and then stuff like Order Knights got removed.

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition: Freeguild-Vampire Mercs. I transitioned to using Merc rules bought some Blood Knights, and otherwise. Relevant Mercs got removed from the game. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition Part 2: Shadowblade + Friends (Tempest Eye/Living City) I acquired some Stormcast, Wanderers, alongside other units and converted some of my Freeguild. Redid the army with a ShadowBlade Core + Assassin General. Realm Rules (Removal of Realm Facts, specifically Thermal Rider) ended that army. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd/3rd Edition: Shadowblade + DoK/Stormcast Vangaurd (Hal Kuron and Misthaven). I more embraced the Shadowblade theme of shifty shifty, and began using DoK new units Khainte Units and/or Stormcast Vangaurd Rules. Originally intended for Hal Kuron, but then Legends rules for Uglu Wizard Aelves from that boardgames I transitioned to Misthavn. 

Now ironically while Human Cavalry have returned, and alot of my hopes for genericier traits so my Assassin Generals wouldn’t feel meh. Shadowblade isn’t an army that can exist anymore. Furthermore Assassins only work with Aelf Units. Also I lost Stormcast Coalition. So like on principle I like new book and Bretonnia returning in ToW. But man getting my army removed from the game 5 times is book utterly hilarious and incredibly frustrating for me.

F to pay respects. Really sucks to be in your situation.

For the time being, I guess you could still coalition your remaining Cities units into a Stormcast Stormkeep army or just ally your Stormcast into your Cities army (which has the upside of being unlikely to go away when the Stormcast battletome gets updated). And maybe at least TOW can give you a way to still use your old models when the game launches.

It's difficult to know what models you can safely invest in for Cities. Definitely all the new Freeguild stuff, of course, but it is still hard to predict what will happen with the leftover dwarves and dark elves in the next book.

[RetconnedLegion]

The future of the remaining Duardin and aelves probably depends on what they do with the races as a whole, and how the Old World does. 

Since the last cities book, we saw Lumineth arrive which have the High Elf influence so it makes sense that the few remaining High Elf models that remained in the Cities would go. 
And the Old World is bringing WHFB kits back, so GW still gets to sell the Phoenix Guard etc as part of that range.

So if we see Malerions shadow aelves in the future, then I can see the Dark Elf kits disappearing from the cities. Same if there is a third Duardin faction with a more traditional dwarfen style. And if Old World sells and expands it’s narrative further, those kits will be wanted for that range.

 

[Ejecutor]

5 hours ago, Arathorn185 said:

So while I find this utterly hilarious, I am not gonna lie, I am frustrated again. My Sigmar Army has gotten removed from the game again! For reference here:

Fantasy: Bretonnia (Coming back in Old World)

Age of Sigmar 1st Edition: Bretonnia-FreeGuild (I was planning on using Bretonnia (sense keyword shared) as a stepping stone to build FreeGuild army). Bretonnia lost FreeGuild keyword and then stuff like Order Knights got removed.

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition: Freeguild-Vampire Mercs. I transitioned to using Merc rules bought some Blood Knights, and otherwise. Relevant Mercs got removed from the game. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition Part 2: Shadowblade + Friends (Tempest Eye/Living City) I acquired some Stormcast, Wanderers, alongside other units and converted some of my Freeguild. Redid the army with a ShadowBlade Core + Assassin General. Realm Rules (Removal of Realm Facts, specifically Thermal Rider) ended that army. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd/3rd Edition: Shadowblade + DoK/Stormcast Vangaurd (Hal Kuron and Misthaven). I more embraced the Shadowblade theme of shifty shifty, and began using DoK new units Khainte Units and/or Stormcast Vangaurd Rules. Originally intended for Hal Kuron, but then Legends rules for Uglu Wizard Aelves from that boardgames I transitioned to Misthavn. 

Now ironically while Human Cavalry have returned, and alot of my hopes for genericier traits so my Assassin Generals wouldn’t feel meh. Shadowblade isn’t an army that can exist anymore. Furthermore Assassins only work with Aelf Units. Also I lost Stormcast Coalition. So like on principle I like new book and Bretonnia returning in ToW. But man getting my army removed from the game 5 times is book utterly hilarious and incredibly frustrating for me.

Imo it is clear. If you want minis that would stay over time, buy the new range. I would say everytning else would be removed from CoS sooner rather than later.

[Arathorn185]

I mean I did! Or atleasy thought DOK Shadowstalker Units meant transition to a DOK army. Honestly not even truly upset (a little frustrated) I am just infinitely amused, because like GW has removed my armies from the Fantasy/AOS or legality like 5 times now. There is a joke at my store any faction I choose in AoS doomed to get squatted.

[zilberfrid]

17 hours ago, Arathorn185 said:

So while I find this utterly hilarious, I am not gonna lie, I am frustrated again. My Sigmar Army has gotten removed from the game again! For reference here:

Fantasy: Bretonnia (Coming back in Old World)

Age of Sigmar 1st Edition: Bretonnia-FreeGuild (I was planning on using Bretonnia (sense keyword shared) as a stepping stone to build FreeGuild army). Bretonnia lost FreeGuild keyword and then stuff like Order Knights got removed.

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition: Freeguild-Vampire Mercs. I transitioned to using Merc rules bought some Blood Knights, and otherwise. Relevant Mercs got removed from the game. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd Edition Part 2: Shadowblade + Friends (Tempest Eye/Living City) I acquired some Stormcast, Wanderers, alongside other units and converted some of my Freeguild. Redid the army with a ShadowBlade Core + Assassin General. Realm Rules (Removal of Realm Facts, specifically Thermal Rider) ended that army. 

Age of Sigmar 2nd/3rd Edition: Shadowblade + DoK/Stormcast Vangaurd (Hal Kuron and Misthaven). I more embraced the Shadowblade theme of shifty shifty, and began using DoK new units Khainte Units and/or Stormcast Vangaurd Rules. Originally intended for Hal Kuron, but then Legends rules for Uglu Wizard Aelves from that boardgames I transitioned to Misthavn. 

Now ironically while Human Cavalry have returned, and alot of my hopes for genericier traits so my Assassin Generals wouldn’t feel meh. Shadowblade isn’t an army that can exist anymore. Furthermore Assassins only work with Aelf Units. Also I lost Stormcast Coalition. So like on principle I like new book and Bretonnia returning in ToW. But man getting my army removed from the game 5 times is book utterly hilarious and incredibly frustrating for me.

Yeah. I got tricked into buying mercenaries as well months before they got dumped. I had a sizable Kharadron inclusion as well as some Stormcast for my Tempest's eye when I played.

Not only are rulebooks overpriced for the quality and they lose all value every three years (one for general's handbook), they also casually toss out stuff from the rules. Including stuff made for AoS like Silver Tower.

GW makes nice models (and charge hefty for them), but I will never give their rulebooks another chance.

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah. I got tricked into buying mercenaries as well months before they got dumped. I had a sizable Kharadron inclusion as well as some Stormcast for my Tempest's eye when I played.

Yep, AoS has a long reputation of removing miniatures and armies. We started with Fantasy miniatures (2 purges btw), then mercenaries, then Coalition units, then old miniatures (again), then invalidate some heroes/armies or even units, then old miniatures again... Btw, we have Armies of Renown, and a FEC remake too. I expect the same fate too. 

I'm not even sure if Ellania & Ellathor or Bundo, or even Gotrek will survive the next purge as part of "true mercenaries". 

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

Yep, AoS has a long reputation of removing miniatures and armies. We started with Fantasy miniatures (2 purges btw), then mercenaries, then Coalition units, then old miniatures (again), then invalidate some heroes/armies or even units, then old miniatures again... Btw, we have Armies of Renown, and a FEC remake too. I expect the same fate too. 

I'm not even sure if Ellania & Ellathor or Bundo, or even Gotrek will survive the next purge as part of "true mercenaries". 

I also expect old Underworld teams to be booted, and Cursed City models when it's time is up.