Rumours on low Dominion sales - discussion

[Blueraven84]

6 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

No unique characters

Can't find that rule anywhere, maybe you are thinking no unique can be warlord...

[yukishiro1]

Ah, you're right. Goonhammer was wrong, apparently. So you can include them, they just can't be your warlord. 

[swarmofseals]

DISCLAIMER: this is based entirely on my own opinion/speculation and not inside information in any way.

I think that factors like army popularity are definitely a part of the picture but I'd bet that there are some very significant factors going on behind the scenes:

• Indomitus was a perfect storm. 40k is more popular, Space Marines are useful to a huge percentage of 40k players, there was a lot of excitement around the Necrons as well. A couple of months into the pandemic people were starting to look for hobbies and more willing to spend on this kind of thing.
• Perhaps more importantly the box dropped after a couple of months of lockdown likely hamstrung GW's production.
• Conclusion: Indomitus demand was likely inflated by both situational and intrinsic factors while supply was likely reduced by situational factors
• Meanwhile as others have noted Dominion does not have the same intrinsic advantages as Indomitus. The playerbase is smaller and neither of the factions carry the excitement of Indomitus factions.
• Furthermore, GW is used to the effect of lockdowns on production now and has had a lot of time to build up stock for the release. I wonder if GW reduced production of things like Cursed City in order to make sure there's plenty of Dominion supply. They also put in place the queue system which cut scalpers off at the knees and may have depressed sales a little by reducing impulse purchases (probably not a big factor).
• A situational factor that might impact sales is the recent lifting of lockdowns. People are spending aggressively on experiences now (eating out, vacations/travel), which is perhaps reducing demand for goods and hobbies. I'm not sure how much of a factor this is, but it's basically the opposite of what happened last Summer and likely works against Dominion.
• Conclusion: Dominion doesn't have the intrinsic or situational factors to increase demand and possibly has situational factors that reduce demand a bit. There are no factors that reduce supply.

I also think that this edition is shaking up the rules more significantly than 2.0 did. Personally, I am very confident that AoS 3.0 will be a better game than 2.0 and I think it's likely that it will be better by a large margin. But it will take getting used to, and people are definitely resistant to change.

[Lord Krungharr]

I did buy a Dominion box, mainly to sell off the minis to get a free rulebook, and hopefully pay for a GHB too.  But looking at the Kruelboyz, I like their spiky goblin vibe, like the ones from the movie Legend.  I might end up keeping them, especially if they can ally with my Spiderfang and the Troggoth guy can ally with my Ogors (cuz Troggoth).  Their poison shooting seems excellent too.

If I played Stormcast the Annhilators would be in every army list for sure.

As for why Dominion isn't selling, it's probably resentment and wallet-fatigue, for leading us through the Broken Realms series, and immediately after Kragnos, BOOM new edition where none of the battalions and stuff from those expensive books (and exciting White Dwarf rules) is usable.  I agree with another post that they should've waited a year, let people get some games in with the recent 2nd edition rules, and then next year unleash 3.0.

The kneejerk reactions to coherency and reinforcement is premature however.  Unleash Hell I don't think will be as big of a deal as people think.  Just take a single speedbump, charge it in, and it either dies or uses up the CA, or prevents that unit from Unleashing more Hell if it survives into 3" of the shooty unit.  EEZY PEEZY!  That's what a Chaos Spawn or Khorgorath or Skar Bloodwrath is for

 

[Kodos der Henker]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

I couldn't pinpoint on where it started, though definitely before the new edition, but it feels like people are less excited about the new AoS edition compared to AoS 2. If I were to chalk it up to something, it's not that the models are disappointing but rather the rules. I'm not sure how it is for 40k so this could be totally off the mark, but it seems there's a lot of fretting about some AoS 3 rules and there was previously a lot of disappointment/confusion about some of the more recent books. 40k, on the other hand, has overpowered stuff coming out but most people seem to like their new books and rules (correct me if I'm wrong here though), whereas many people seem disappointed at apparent 'underpowered'/boring stuff coming out in recent AoS publications. 

One thing here is, for most people playing AoS this is the first ever real Edtion change they go thru
and with GW changing for the sake of change they are not used to those kind of things that a new Edition is a new game were the hype comes from the fresh air a new game brings in a more boring setting

Difference to 40k is, AoS 2 was the better game, so people were not fed up with the current installment of powercreep and broken rules like in 40k were people already started asking for a new Edition a year before it came because the game did not worked well any more
(40k going thru the cycle of new core rules that change the game, new Codex change the way the game is played, new "balance" just comes from the fact that with different core rules other units are broken and it takes time until people get them into the game, at the point were most factions have their new book and most people have new painted armies the game itself is in the game itself is bloated and broken and people start asking for a reset)

For AoS there is no big need to change everything and the most controversial feature of the game is going to stay anyway.
So no hype for new rules because there was no need for them
We have not seen the cycle of the game being turned "unplayable" during an Edition and players looking forward to a new game

Another point is that there are again Stormcast in the Core Box
does not look unusual but there are no real poster boys in AoS and unlike Space Marines were you have at least 10 factions that can use the models, there only 2 using them in AoS and not all players are looking forward to buy again an army of Stormcast after they have already 2 at home
While the Launch Box is aimed at Veterans, the content is made with the 40k community in mind were Marines were always part of the 2 player box (in Fantasy it was always different factions and only Goblins have been featured twice) 

[Kodos der Henker]

double post

Edited June 27, 2021 by Kodos der Henker

[Fred1245]

11 minutes ago, Kodos der Henker said:

One thing here is, for most people playing AoS this is the first ever real Edtion change they go thru
and with GW changing for the sake of change they are not used to those kind of things that a new Edition is a new game were the hype comes from the fresh air a new game brings in a more boring setting

Difference to 40k is, AoS 2 was the better game, so people were not fed up with the current installment of powercreep and broken rules like in 40k were people already started asking for a new Edition a year before it came because the game did not worked well any more
(40k going thru the cycle of new core rules that change the game, new Codex change the way the game is played, new "balance" just comes from the fact that with different core rules other units are broken and it takes time until people get them into the game, at the point were most factions have their new book and most people have new painted armies the game itself is in the game itself is bloated and broken and people start asking for a reset)

For AoS there is no big need to change everything and the most controversial feature of the game is going to stay anyway.
So no hype for new rules because there was no need for them
We have not seen the cycle of the game being turned "unplayable" during an Edition and players looking forward to a new game

Another point is that there are again Stormcast in the Core Box
does not look unusual but there are no real poster boys in AoS and unlike Space Marines were you have at least 10 factions that can use the models, there only 2 using them in AoS and not all players are looking forward to buy again an army of Stormcast after they have already 2 at home
While the Launch Box is aimed at Veterans, the content is made with the 40k community in mind were Marines were always part of the 2 player box (in Fantasy it was always different factions and only Goblins have been featured twice) 

A lot of this is subjective. I personally thought late second edition was pretty unplayable with how pigeonholed every army was into their shooting options.

[yukishiro1]

Late AOS 2.0 was broken by terribly balanced armies that ushered in an era of near-complete shooting dominance (plus the only faction that had tools to mitigate shooting). It wasn't so much the core rules as a bunch of disastrously balanced new tomes that repeatedly broke the game's tenuous balance.

I didn't want a new edition, I just wanted them to fix the mess they had created with the ridiculous power creep. And the new rules changes if anything do more to boost the structural advantage shooting enjoys in the game, rather than diminishing it, so it's not like people are hyped for 3.0 because they feel like the base rules will address the biggest balance problem in late 2.0. 

That said, I do think 3.0 is generally a better ruleset overall. It just has a few very controversial features that turn people off and make them worried that GW hasn't recognized the shooting problem the game has - coherency and unleash hell, mainly. 

A lot of it is riding on the FAQs, and that's probably depressing sales too. Lots of people are adopting a "wait and see" policy to see how their faction and the game as a whole is impacted before deciding whether or how to jump back in. A wiser company would have released the FAQs ahead of time too - unless, of course, they're going to be disappointing. Then hiding them till after release makes sense, I guess. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Kodos der Henker]

of course this is subjective, but comparing late AoS 2 with late 8th 40k, AoS was by far the better game and the changes needed are within the factions rules, not with the core rules and most people I know were still happy with the game (there were no tournaments/events here anyway for a year so no big meta changes)
GW can always try to make it a better game over all, specially looking at were AoS started, yet with the main problem being the factions rules, without giving big updated to all factions in the beginning (which did not happen with the GHB)

for now I don't see a lot of people looking forward to the changes but more of a "wait for the FAQ"

[Gaz Taylor]

I’ve not heard any rumours about Dominion not having great sale. I think GW got the numbers right and made sure there was enough for demand.

Id also echo what has been mentioned in this thread and 40K is vastly more popular than AOS but also the player base is very different. Also with the stuff included with Indomitus, it fed into the arms race 40K has become. Many of the Space Marine units were very good and that made it a must have set.

Personally for me, I didn’t order Dominion because I had Indomitus last year and it just sat around gathering dust. I didn’t want to repeat the same with Dominion. However im going to Warhammer World in a few weeks and I can see me getting a copy if they have any left. It’s a cool set but I’m mostly immune to the FOMO with things now

[Nizrah]

Why people here think that Krule won't be a faction on their own? They only said that they can be used in Big Wagh just like iron jaws and bonesplitters. Where the duck are you coming from guys???? 

[yukishiro1]

Nobody's said anything one way or the other. Hence the point everyone is making re: the uncertainty. We have no idea at this point what the new Orruk Warclans book is going to look like at all. Is it going to have four different full faction allegiances in a single book - Big Waagh, IJ, BS, and KB? That'd be pretty much unprecedented. It's possible, but we don't know. We don't even know that IJ and BS are surviving as independent factions. Maybe it's all becoming Big Waagh? 

The point is that nobody knows. So the audience of people who want to buy a bunch of new minis without even knowing how they're going to fit into a larger army is going to be naturally reduced. 

[Nizrah]

34 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said:

Nobody's said anything one way or the other. Hence the point everyone is making re: the uncertainty. We have no idea at this point what the new Orruk Warclans book is going to look like at all. Is it going to have four different full faction allegiances in a single book - Big Waagh, IJ, BS, and KB? That'd be pretty much unprecedented. It's possible, but we don't know. We don't even know that IJ and BS are surviving as independent factions. Maybe it's all becoming Big Waagh? 

The point is that nobody knows. So the audience of people who want to buy a bunch of new minis without even knowing how they're going to fit into a larger army is going to be naturally reduced. 

But you arleady have AA for big wagh... You will just could use krulle with that AA. People are wayover thinking... 

[yukishiro1]

I don't think it's particularly overthinking to know how the minis you're buying are going to fit into a larger army before buying - especially when you also don't know what is still coming for that range beyond a couple more teased models. If you disagree, that's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to hold it. But the thread is about reasons people think that Dominion doesn't seem to have sold like hotcakes the way Indomitus did. And I do think the uncertainty about one of the factions in the box is probably part of that. Not a big part - but they all add up. There's basically a ton of little reasons why people wouldn't rush out to buy the set, and they add up to something fairly significant in the aggregate. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by yukishiro1

[SentinelGuy]

GW focuses too much on Stormcast Eternals. If this set had contained new Cities minis, I'd have been all over it.

[chord]

As stormcast player this set did not interest me at all.  SCE players are stuck where the older models are made less powerful every time a new release comes out.  Why should I encourage this?  I may pick up some of the models off ebay

[Overread]

There's a no win situation here

 

If Dominion had sold out GW would be raked over the coals for not producing enough

IF dominion did not sell out then we say that its undersold and GW has failed to market or has produced too many

 

 

In truth lets consider that GW models do not devalue. After release their prices from GW direct only go up. At the very least this set has a set value and that value will steadily increase over time. In fact its value as a discount set will go up any time there's a big sales push for one of the two armies in there. In addition the rules have at least a 3year or so shelf life and with the box discount the rules are basically free any way. So in general the set has a long term shelf value. Yes stores that ordered a LOT all in one go have sometimes had to slash sales but this is more of a cash flow situation for them. Ergo they needed those boxes to sell to free up money to buy other stock and they can't afford to have 50-100 boxes sitting on a shelf even though they would eventually sell. 

Don't forget even after GW said there would be a 2nd wave of Indomitus there were actually quite a lot of sets floating around and Ebay had a very large number of split and whole sets up for sale for the length of time up to the 2nd printing and beyond. So whilst it sold out there was still a lot of stock around. It just wasn't purely online, but in the physical stores. If anything GW might have reworked their online formula considering the way Corona chagned the retail market over the last year for many people. 

 

And yep I can only echo that Marines making up some 40% or more of GW's total sales in some years reflects the fact that they are a HUGE selling force within the company, not just within the game. So stuff for them is bound to outsell most other product lines. Honestly we shouldn't even want that kind of thing for AoS. AoS is, for us, far stronger for having no big showstopper army that everyone plays. Having way more variety means more chance of armies being updated and added too and less chance of being left behind; and it means a more exciting and varied game experience. Not just marines and marines and more marines 

[BigNStinky]

I am just burnt out on new models at this point and just cannot justify another force (I do think Kruelboyz are very neat and certainly worthy of picking up.... at some point in the future).

 

There is just a lot of uncertainty on how my current factions will perform (some more obvious than others) and I mostly want to play around with and develop what I have, rather than jump into something completely new when there could potentially be so many "half complete" armies left in the wake of 3.0 changes.

 

As a counterpoint to others I was more than ready for a 3.0 shakeup of my local meta. Many players of weaker factions were dropping out of attendance (ex: sylvaneth players) and very dominant army archetypes (shooting or magic-centric) were taking over and being played ad nauseum. Even at just a few games a week this was becoming obvious and was leaking over from the tournament contenders to the casual crowd (just to compete).  I cannot wait for the new rules and learning a new system. But it does inject a LOT of uncertainty on faction construction and whether purchases will need to be made to adapt to that system.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by BigNStinky

[Televiper11]

Pandemic product fatigue: 4 Broken Realms books, Cursed City, SBGL, & lots of Underworlds warbands all came quickly on the heels of one-another, burning out interest and wallets. Plus, 2.0 might have been “finished” for GW in terms of product but it is was nowhere close to finished in terms of gameplay due to shutdowns. I bought the 2.0 Seraphon tome and never even got a chance to play it once. Now I know it will soon be super-ceded so I’m kinda annoyed. I think 2.0 had another year of life in it.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Televiper11

[GTK]

My first post after years of lurking.I didn't buy Dominion for a few reasons.First off I've just got back in the hobby after xmas and bought the contrast paint set,artis opus brushes and cursed city.My wife said no preceded by a few choice words.Also I did not want the SCE part.I wanted the kruelboys but was worried they are going to be half an army with no book and I would have to play IJ to have an army.Hobgrots not being battle line hurt a lot for making a list as you seem to have one battle line.My only fear of waiting is never having any heroes sold separate.Sort of like a couple of the NH heroes.So I guess I've taken a wait and see approach.

[Envyus]

Just going to outright state that it’s apparently selling how they wanted. They wanted it to last a while, not sell out in an hour.

[Sleboda]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:59 AM, Baron Klatz said:

, dropped 3.0 at least a year too early

This, combined with the blazing speed at which Battletomes are being replaced by newer versions over all in AoS, would be the reason for any hesitation I may have had. I mean, really, essentially junking books only a few years after selling them (digital or physical) is not great for consumer confidence.

That said, I did opt to jump in and get the new stuff. I like AoS and this is the new version, so I'm in. I'll continue to watch for how quickly books get replaced (and likely will greatly reduce the number of warscroll cards and limited edition Battletomes I buy), but if the product stays high quality, I'll keep getting it.

I happen to think that the reason the box hasn't sold out it's pretty simple - they made enough.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Sleboda

[sorokyl]

1 hour ago, Envyus said:

Just going to outright state that it’s apparently selling how they wanted. They wanted it to last a while, not sell out in an hour.

You do not know how many they made, how many they sold, how many they wanted to have sold by now, so i think the statement "it's apparently selling how they wanted" has no merit. 

Keep in mind the goal of this product, as a loss leader to promote the new edition. Look at all of the things out of stock on the web store, that are more profitable for them to have made instead.  It also makes an awkward situation for the smaller starter sets that they've already made (months ago) and are ready to hit stores right after this.  They do not want it on shelves months from now, at that point its cutting into sales of higher margin product, so it would mean that they made too many. 

Maybe they've sold 80-90% and it'll clear out soon.  Maybe they've sold 40% and it's a was a relative flop. Only time will tell. 

 

[Greybeard86]

7 hours ago, chord said:

As stormcast player this set did not interest me at all.  SCE players are stuck where the older models are made less powerful every time a new release comes out.  Why should I encourage this?  I may pick up some of the models off ebay

I am not a stormcast player, but this concerns me greatly.

Back in the day GW released both new units and new sculpts for old units. This your old as heck metal quarreler or miner was as “legal” as the plastic sculpt. 

Now, it seems that GW releases predate or obsolete sculpts that are fairly new. And I am not even talking about legending relatively new stuff (I will forever hold a grudge over the new and very expensive chorf FW being trashed). I mean the primaris treatment, where models are made obsolete to make sure people refresh sculpts. 

SCE seem to suffer from this, as the model line is unbearably extensive but, based on what I am being told, often at the cost of older lines not being as supported.

If that is the case, please stop it. 

[Skreech Verminking]

I don’t know of any rumors of the dominion box not selling.

Yet I can say that most of my friends including myself just aren’t too greatly interested in this box.

many of my friends do play stormcast, yet they are not interested in taking up arms with the new stormcast models, either of already owning 4000 or more points of them already or just b’cause of the overpowering of newer units, that has seemed to always follow with these stormcast releases.

for many other people, including myself, the boxset is missing a lot.

There are no gitz, no skaven, nor any interesting non stormcast city units in this boxset, which kinda makes it very, very uninteresting for me and many others.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Skreech Verminking