Broken Realms: Teclis - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[HammerOfSigmar]

I think the conversation is becoming weird. Nagash's defeat is something that is certain from the very beginning, there is no need to discuss on whether his plan will doom or not. 

The biggest problem about this book should be around nagash was defeated utterly while LRL pay little price.

Spoiler

As far as I know(spent long time reading those blurred text in the youtube videos) LRL basically lose nothing, none of the named character died in this book (including those who would only shows up in this book and never show up again). While the Death forces, the supreme leader end up in "physical form shattered" and "exocised", the most loyal and capable lieutenant get annihilated, the elite ossiarch troops gets defeated utterly both in homeland defence and invasion operation, not to mention manfred and neferata just fleed after defeat.  So we can almost come to the conclusion that LRL only needs half of its forces to defeat the most powerful death forces utterly and without much sacrifice.  

        Isn't it strange? GW spent almost 3 years to show you how dreadful and mighty the death army is, and then in a sudden, GW tells you that it is not that powerful actually, it could be defeated without much sacrifice.  😅

Edited March 28, 2021 by HammerOfSigmar

[Rachmani]

Maybe the sacrifice will become clear over time. Teclis seems to be marked by death. But I have to read that myself.

On a funnier note, Nagash invading Teclis turf feels like that overconfident mid player in DotA (or League) that overextends and gets killed under tower.

[silverstu]

I read a few bits from that video between Teclis and Alarielle - Teclis seems to have just banished Nagash back to his realm in Shyish, bound to stay there for a long time- Alarielle seems to think Nagash will be back sooner looking vengeance.. Also Alarielle talks of Spring coming, and she has her agents working to free the Realms.. perhaps she freed Kragnos.. All looking very interesting, `Allarielle looking very powerful, Nagash seems to have just had a setback[after overextending himself and invading another gods realm- plus Alarielle had to intervene to help Teclis] and has wounded/marked Teclis in some way. Plus the Nighthaunt, Bonereapers and Gravelords are still out and about doing his bidding [or not]. sounds like another good book.

Really excited about what happens next.

[Byro]

I love love love all of these developments. Death actually suffering a catastrophic defeat, Order triumphing thoroughly, rather than (another) pyric victory is a great swerve from what I would have expected, and people, let's all keep in mind that this book is focused on the Aelves, and the previous book had two very big W's for evil, with Morathi ****** over Sigmar and seizing both her own fortress and her long-dreamed of divinity, while simultaneously Chaos saw a huge development in Slaanesh breaking free from it's constraints. 

I'm  super excited to see the story develop further for AOS, and as a diehard 40k player that's really saying something.  

[Causalis]

Quick question: What happens to endless spells? The lore says that those could only be conjured because the Necroquake is distrubing the winds of magic. But now that the quake is gone, so too should be the endless spells. But this obviously won't happen, because GW wants to sell them minis. So do we have any justification for them sticking around?

[Rachmani]

I‘m not sure if that‘s necessarily true. They could slowly fade away (end up in open play)

[Overread]

1 minute ago, Causalis said:

Quick question: What happens to endless spells? The lore says that those could only be conjured because the Necroquake is distrubing the winds of magic. But now that the quake is gone, so too should be the endless spells. But this obviously won't happen, because GW wants to sell them minis. So do we have any justification for them sticking around?

The Quake caused massive destabilizations which are still having ongoing effects. One of which is Endless Spells went from something from the Age of Myth which were then locked away by Sigmar - into something that was wildly unleashed upon the Realms once more. So in theory they can be locked up again, but it would take a huge amount of directly godly intervention to achieve. With Chaos around there's just not the time nor resources to waste on such an endeavour, esp when forces against chaos can make use of the powers. 

[Takyz]

Seeing all this talk about whether the good guys or bad guys win more often, I think that something worth considering is that AoS is not divided between good and bad guys. People think about factions, not good or bad guys. This is especially relevant when arguing over who wins most of the time because there are so few 'good guys' in the setting. Even if all of Order were 'good guys' (which they aren't), for every GA to win as often as each other, the 'bad guys' would have to win 3/4 times.

I don't really have a horse in the race, as a TK enthusiast I enjoy seeing Nagash fail, but at the same time I understand that Death players would be disappointed to see Luminteh lose so little in destroying him (if that really is the case).

[Sarouan]

I do think this book is a big deal too. It's not just "Nagash lost", the real big deal here is the necroquake is countered. This is a huge victory for the forces of light and life...and it will have a backlash, like Alarielle said.

Having Nagash lose his necroquake means indeed he will lose his complete autority on the forces of Death. Meaning there is some room for others "demi-gods / gods" of death again.

And I agree, this could be expected lore wise (the necroquake was seriously hindering the realms, after all, and its disappearance is also a good excuse to change rules a lot about, said, endless spells that aren't really that popular with players anyway ?), but still...this is clearly above Morathi in terms of consequences for the realms. Sure, Slaanesh's possible return is a big deal (to be honest, Slaanesh isn't fully free and for now, it more looks like he has a baby blob more than anything else) and sure Morathi becoming a goddess (Praise to Morathi-Khaine !) isn't a minor event as well, nor the loss of Anvilgard to Sigmar...but the necroquake being undone ? This concerns all the realms on a whole new level, including Shyish.

This is definitely not Psychic Awakening material. Not even Wrath of the Everchosen (which ended in a status quo, again - yeah, sure, the forces of Death managed to build a fortress in Archaon's land and hold the door to Shyish, but it's not like it wasn't already eternal conflict anyway with Chaos).

Here, we have a clear winner and indeed Teclis brought hope to the realms.

Before, AoS was pretty grim. If it wasn't Chaos, it was Death. Now Death is being humbled a bit.

And Nagash is a ****** anyway, I always hated him. It's good to see his bony ass to be kicked hard. Yeah, he will come back for revenge, as usual, but he lost hard.  It's not just being banished after losing an AoS battle. His whole plan was completely undone. Litterally.

About characters who may "die for good"...it wouldn't be so bad. I still think Arkhan will come back as an Ossiarch, but if he was gone for good, wouldn't bother me. I bet the rules to play him can still stick around for a while. And it's not like most AoS games do care about what character is living or technically dead...like we got the "new" rules of Anvilgard with explicit statement saying that you can still use the old rules in game (meaning it's a game in the past or representing a rebellious force). "Old" Arkhan rules may mean a shadow of it former self, another character entirely or just a battle of the past. Like GW made rules for old Warhammer Battle armies for AoS.

And I think that's good. That means the lore can move on, not being stuck in an endless status quo like it was in Battle or currently in 40k. It needs to move on to keep being relevant, at some point. Allowing yourself as a designer to really get rid of named characters for good is also a way to do that. It means they're not a guarantee to be always managing to survive anyway because of plot armor.

It's surely easier with AoS that has still a new setting to take better shape, but it's so good to see GW being really more free than in 40k or Battle about this. It really warms my heart.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Sarouan

[Indecisive]

-arkhan deleted
-nagash in time out for a thousand years or however long
-Ctrl+Z the Soul Wars
-nagash not even important enough for tyrion to bother with, some elusive foe greater than nagash

not exactly liking this book so far from what I've heard

[Nagash42]

Not ctrl+z cause the effects are still ongoing just the base problem stopped.

Also the slaanesh child and chaos is a bigger threat then Nagash.

[silverstu]

55 minutes ago, Indecisive said:

-arkhan deleted
-nagash in time out for a thousand years or however long
-Ctrl+Z the Soul Wars
-nagash not even important enough for tyrion to bother with, some elusive foe greater than nagash

not exactly liking this book so far from what I've heard

Alarielle thinks he'll be back sooner and won't be happy skeleton - probably with a fresh set of books and the latest version of Arkhan. His plans are merely delayed plus his minions are still at large causing havoc. 

 

[Joseph Mackay]

3 hours ago, Indecisive said:

-nagash not even important enough for tyrion to bother with, some elusive foe greater than nagash

If Tyrion is dealing with Slaanesh, then yes that’s a bigger deal to Aelves than Nagash ever will be. It’s no different to the dynamic between Slaanesh/Eldar in 40K, no threat is more important than Slaanesh 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Joseph Mackay

[LuminethMage]

After I read a short summery of the content of BR Teclis, I stayed away from this thread on purpose. Looks like I made the right decision : ). 

I can understand that some people are unhappy. If it was the other way round, I'd very likely had a few bad days. I'm sure Nagash will be back before soon though. As many mentioned, that they really do things like that is good. One wonders what happens in the next book when Balakor has the same impact 😱

One of my personal favorite bits about this is, that one motivation of Teclis was to provide a good afterlife for everyone. I didn't really think about that important aspect of Nagash. That there are sometimes glimmers of hope in this setting is something which, for me, set's it positively apart from Fantasy and more so 40k. I'm sure the next two books will set things straight again :).

And in terms of flavor text, this book contains one of the best written rules since a while: "Raging Outburst" for a Settler's Gain general. It's very relatable 😂

[Cronotekk]

On 3/27/2021 at 9:01 AM, Blueraven84 said:

I don't like like 160 euro worth of models going to trash pin, but I do appreciate moving story forward...

Nagash isn't gone, he has been  "killed" a handful of times already.

[Cronotekk]

I think the biggest downside is that this marks the end of death as the main villain. A good 3 years of lore saying that death is the most badass scary faction ever only for the entire grand alliance to be decisively defeated on every front by a new order faction. Always thought the Soul Wars would end in Sigmar or another god finally waking up to fight Nagash, instead we got Teclis who not only hid while his army killed Nagash for him, but undid the last 3 years of setting development is dissapointing.

Moving forward, I wonder how this will affect nighthaunt, and consequently all death lore, moving forward. Death factions were defined by their role under nagash, and now that he is out of commission (lore wise) for the foreseeable future. How will Nighthaunt, bound to torture by Nagash, change? We already see how Legions of Nagash are changing to become Soulblight led (as Arkhan is out too).

Edited March 29, 2021 by Cronotekk

[Sällsam]

3 hours ago, Cronotekk said:

Moving forward, I wonder how this will affect nighthaunt, and consequently all death lore, moving forward. Death factions were defined by their role under nagash, and now that he is out of commission (lore wise) for the foreseeable future. How will Nighthaunt, bound to torture by Nagash, change? We already see how Legions of Nagash are changing to become Soulblight led (as Arkhan is out too).

Perfect opportunity to add factions to NH   

[woolf]

I wonder if his defeat opens up for a weaker Nagash re-entering at lets say 500-600 pts cost (more like the other God-models). Not sure the 800+ range is good for the game anyways so might not be a bad thing, assuming they get the warscroll right and he can fit in more lists that way.

[Harioch]

27 minutes ago, woolf said:

I wonder if his defeat opens up for a weaker Nagash re-entering at lets say 500-600 pts cost (more like the other God-models). Not sure the 800+ range is good for the game anyways so might not be a bad thing, assuming they get the warscroll right and he can fit in more lists that way.

And a profile that doesn't degrade like others 😁

[warhammernerd]

35 minutes ago, woolf said:

I wonder if his defeat opens up for a weaker Nagash re-entering at lets say 500-600 pts cost (more like the other God-models). Not sure the 800+ range is good for the game anyways so might not be a bad thing, assuming they get the warscroll right and he can fit in more lists that way.

This I would LOVE

[warhammernerd]

If they could do the same with Archaon as well, whilst there at it. Totally had enough of 600-800 point characters in the game. It’s lame sauce.

[Perturbato]

What if the only way to ressurect Nagash was by using the necromantic magic inbued in Teclis ? Or that Teclis would go downside to the road on necromantic way .. like the Hero at the End of Diablo 1 ?

100% it won't happen because the model of Teclis exist ^^

[Nightseer2012]

I am an Arkhan fanboy, so this news is a little worrying.  All in all, they won't squat either him or Nagash, they are too narratively important and they have both died before multiple times and returned.  I am assuming they won't do anything with Arkhan's model, as he is a triple kit with Mannfred and Neferata already. 

I guess what bothers me is that I was still holding out hope I could use either Nagash or Arkhan in Soulblight Gravelords, as they are my centerpiece models, and the whole reason I played Legions of Nagash to begin with.  It seems like a cruel stroke of luck that chances are my two favorite centerpiece models will most likely be incompatible with my entire army soon.  I suppose I could pray that AoS 3.0 makes the Grand Alliances a little easier to play with, but I won't hold my breath.  I honestly wasn't really feeling Ossiarch Bonereapers as an army I wanted to play personally, I am kind of sad.  

After that, I guess I have a few questions?  I am going to try and reserve my judgement till I have the book in hand, but some summaries sounds worrying. 
    1)  How "easy" is it for Teclis to seal the Shyish Nadir?  Did he need to consume pure aetherquartz, or ground himself with an artifact or something at least?  It took millenia for Nagash to acquire the materials and spells he needed to create the series of black pyramids, not to mention the Great Black Pyramid that created the Shyish Nadir in the first place (and he still technically failed in that, and had to "make do" with the Necroquake because it wasn't his intent).
    2)  Any word on how this will effect the Arcanum Optimar?  I'm guessing GW will want to keep selling endless spells so I doubt they would undo it entirely, but it would probably make sense for there to be some kind of effect.

[pnkdth]

If there is one thing we can count on with Nagash and his boney bois is that they'll be back. 

In WHFB we also saw Vampires take up the mantle as preparing and serving Nagash before his inevitable return.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens between the aelves and Slaanesh moving forward.

[Chaos Shepard]

I don't see them dropping endless spells. That said they may change the lore on them a bit. Currently endless spells are in deed that, endless. After a wizard casts them they just keep going. At the end of a battle if not dispelled they run off and just keep going. Maybe now they fade over time. Alternatively maybe AoS 3 drops and they change how endless spells function and all endless spells can become bound by the caster instead of running amuck.