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Rodiger

Warhammer Community, your helpful friend * 

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Recently I've been getting quite tired of Warhammer Community**. When the U.K went into lockdown and GW had to roll back production etc. it broke up a never ending cycle of product hype and marketing that had been going for years. It made me step back and realise that all the articles about the new release are just marketing, they aren't helpful free things, they are just there to sell the new release, all the different previews whether they are rules, fluff, painting all have the same core message, buy, buy, buy. It was so nice to have a break from it all. Even if you don't go on Warhammer Community a lot of other websites just copy and paste the articles.***

This article is a good example. 
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/12/hobby-at-home-getting-started/

It starts off talking about how people are experiencing difficult times and then goes into 'instructional advice'**** how to set up a hobby area and find space to play in. But really all it is doing is trying to sell some of the worst priced items GW make.***** It creates a problem then solves it with a link to buy one of their products. I did a quick count there are 18 links in there to buy things, the cost of the hobby items alone is £150. 
"Experiencing hard times? More free time because you lost your job due to the global pandemic? Well your good friend Warhammer Community's got you covered, with expensive hobby items you don't need."******

The writing style of Warhammer Community is also especially inane.******* The constant use of asterisks is completely unnecessary and quite annoying. It was a joke that was mildly amusing on one article.******** Also the constant use of 'we've got you covered' which just means spend more. 
I know White Dwarf is designed to sell products, but it does occasionally have some interesting content in it. It isn't all just marketing.

Sorry, I know the site rules, topics shouldn't just be complaining, and I have been doing a bit of that recently, maybe I should take a break from posting for a bit. That article rubbed me up the wrong way, and I just think GW are taking the Mick********* out of their customers at the moment with their record profits, record price rises, record new prices. Any shine has rubbed off 'New GW'  and Warhammer Community has been a big part of that. I think they are being exposed for the greedy company they are and not the matey one they try to trick you into thinking they are. I'm starting to miss the 'Old GW' where they didn't communicate with the community at all.

Am I wrong? Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Does Warhammer Community actually deserve the word community in its name?

* replace 'your helpful friend' with 'cynical marketing under the guise of being your friend.'
** Community maybe the wrong word for advertising.
*** free hype! Actually just a bad joke that you had to scroll down to read.
**** it's not instructional or advice
***** no it's not the Mega Gargant, that's already being sold in the first sentence.
****** you can find better alternative for free lying around your house.
******* god these are annoying aren't they.
******** joke is maybe too strong a word, I don't think a physical smile crossed my face.
********* **** 
 

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I clicked on that article too and immediately had the same feelings as yourself. 

Whose hobby space is a "what's what" of the latest overpriced GW painting paraphernalia, to the detraction of anything else?

I have to say I don't go on the community website much and never have done since I got back into the hobby 3 years ago. I check the Sunday previews and occasionally click some lore articles and enjoy the pictures, I also read the short stories which they occasionally put out. 

 

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Warhammer community exist to sell you things . They also bring some community features . It’s not a charity - it’s a business. The guys you see on camera work INCREDIBLY hard to bring you community features . So I think you’re being very unreasonable . 

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Colour me surprised, the website owned by a company exists to sell and hype up that company’s products. With all due respect, what did you expect? 

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11 minutes ago, jamie.white said:

Warhammer community exist to sell you things . They also bring some community features . It’s not a charity - it’s a business. The guys you see on camera work INCREDIBLY hard to bring you community features . So I think you’re being very unreasonable

I am aware it exists to sell things, that was kind of the point, it was the way they are presented that I had a problem with. Which is also why I questioned should it have the word community in it's name, community suggests a two way relationship, not just reading articles designed to sell you things. Isn't that their job, regardless of how hard they work, it's not a charity after all. 

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Yeah, it's a business thing to advertise but holy cow is getting mad at it going too far. 😕

It has articles showing people what they need to know and quick links to the information, helpful free downloads and systems like Warscroll Builder for players, a bunch of articles showing off people's armies or just their lore like these:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/17/vince-venturellas-cities-of-sigmar-armygw-homepage-post-4/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/14/robin-lundkvists-gargantous-bonehostgw-homepage-post-4/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/23/wizards-gnomes-and-weta-workshop/

And tons of stuff to help with kids getting into the hobby with free resources and paper cut out downloads.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/03/home-schooling-warhammer-stylegw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/

 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/07/take-the-kids-to-the-skies-from-homegw-homepage-post-4/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/17/gaming-with-my-child/

That last one carries extra weight because he's a dad and when people responded to the article on twitter about more advice on their kids hobby experiences he answered them all with his own and helped them through it.

 

So yes it's advertising but it's 100% a community too. :)

Edit: even the page shown ends with community interaction.

"How are you set up for your hobby needs? Share your building, painting, and gaming areas with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram – and remember that the staff in your local Warhammer store will be only too happy to help you out. Your local store may not be running painting or gaming activities in store at the moment"

Edited by Baron Klatz
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I mean they are a greedy company. Always have been, always will be. All the 'New GW' stuff is an image exercise and tactics meant to make the company more money. Whatever about their image, they're not your mate and WHC ultimately is reducible to just another marketing tool. If they make stuff that can be considered interesting content - and I'd consider stuff like the Regimental Standard or highlighting hobbyist's cool armies to be that - is cool but it's entirely incidental to the purpose of the WHC site.

I don't think you're unreasonable or being unfair to WHC but you're off the mark in expecting it to be anything other than advertising with a thin veil of winking jokiness to it. The 'community' label is a little irritating, I'll admit, as it's purely a top down sort of thing, an arm of GW itself, but it's best to simply take that as simply a brand and deliberate attempt to enclose the perception of 'the community' to what GW wants it to be.

That the guys behind it work hard is... well, fine, good for them. Some of them are fine hobbyists themselves. All their efforts still amount to a glossy marketing tool and still should be thought of in the same way as you'd think of an ad on a bus shelter. Not particularly deserving of praise or respect outside of a shrug and a 'that's nice'.

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I agree that is is in many ways a long way removed from the very old-school website with old White Dwarf variant army lists republished, the "Dok's Konvershun Klinic" articles and the like, with the armies all laid out on one page with artwork, etc, and it felt like the online version of popping into the store and chatting to the manager who had been in the hobby for years whilst they were prepping a special Rynn World themed event, and so on.

But GW has grown far beyond that small, mold-press in the basement, punksatire vibe and is a global company with expectations and customers across the world. It's very unlikely that the folksy, cluttered website of old would have been servicable for GW in its current form. And as much as I miss that kind of nostalgic, comfortable, website, I understand the business decisions to change it.

Part of that growth involves, unfortunately, a corporate energy and a slick, slightly cynical website and upselling vibe. 

However, the addition of Warhammer TV and Warhammer Community and the end of Warhammer Visions and return of a monthly White Dwarf show that the company is trying to engage more than they used to rather than just advertise. Is this done in no small part because they know people that care and feel talked to and not talked at will buy more than people who don't? Sure, but then again its hard to believe that the Games Workshop of 5 years ago would have solo-play articles to try and help in lockdown, or fluff pieces about a guy painting a Space Marine in colours picked by his child, or web comics. 

I'm not saying that they are perfect - they are not. But I suppose I'm wondering what exactly it is that you want from Warhammer Community? As a fan of their games, if I want to actually engage with a community I have my social gaming group, and online the internet has really taken off - if I want to talk about AoS I can come here where the community is so big that I can't even keep up with all the posts in the small "side" forums like Narrative and Warcry, nevermind big discussions. If I want to talk about 40k, I could go to the B&C - if I just want min maxing suggestions, I can hold my breath and glance at 1d4chan or Dakka. Even the specialist games have big communities over at Yaktribe. YouTube is overflowing with people doing more conversions and painting suggestions than the Warhammer Community team could ever hope to do. From Pete the Wargamer to Duncan's Painting Academy to Black Magic Craft to...

Warhammer Community is arguably more two way than their other websites - this is not a place that you only go to buy toy soldiers, its a place where they try and give back lore and comic strips and articles.

 

It is not perfect, and it is advertising. But in an age where GW cannot do forums or the like as well as their fans can, what do you want it to be instead?

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Looks like it's time to reinstall my imaginary browser plug-in that automatically replaces "greedy" with "capitalist".

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I know the purpose of Warhammer Community has always been to sell GW products, White Dwarfs always has been. 

What do I want from it? Maybe just to slow down and stop for a bit. I suppose I've just had enough of the hype train it creates, that is then copy and pasted around the web, then dominates all the conversations, and is rammed in your face. It's relentless in pushing the pre order one week, then casting aside as soon as the next pre order is revealed. Rinse and repeat.

It won't be a surprise, but I don't read much on there, due to it being marketing, not liking the style it's written in and not finding the other things that interesting. 

If people like it then that's fine. I didn't really use to have a problem with it, I knew what it was there for, just having the lockdown break from it, made me realise that I actually don't like it.

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You can bet if back in the 80s if GW had all the stuffon sale they do now; articles back then would have been just the same. The whole "make your own terrain" from GW was partly because GW didn't make terrain. They did sell flock (and yes even back then it cost more than some other providers); so shock and horror their articles often showed how to use flock. 

 

Also don't forget the community sales articles are rather like White Dwarf and Amateur Photographer and Amateur Photoshopper. They are aimed at new beginners with less and less content for mature/established customers. They are aimed at new people who don't know about this stuff, we do because we are the hyper-keen internet savy people who are up 10 mins before the preview on Sunday because we know the exact time and are ready for it with the F5 key. 

In the end we'll see the same articles and same sales pitches over and over- heck they just did the "Armies on Parade" article which is mostly the same sort of comments as last year - just like the "How to shoot in Snow" articles will be flooding the photography magazines around winter. 

 

For customers like us the key is not to obsess over what WC isn't doing for us, because whilst we can request it, chances are it won't adapt to service our individual needs and desires. Instead we can tap into the vast wealth that the internet offers us. From painting to converting to hobby articles and chatter from a whole community of keen and experienced gamers. Pros to amateurs alike there's a huge wealth out there. I wouldn't worry about the WC pages; let them be what they are and enjoy them for what they are not what they aren't. Go out and find the rest of the stuff that's just what you want and need for your hobby. 

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Yes, you are right: WarCom is one long infomercial, for the most part.

The part that ticked me off is calling it "community" with no way for the community to interact with it (forums, comments, etc.); obviously any "community" content is heavily curated in there.

That said, my recommendation if it irks you is to truly step away from it. Read whatever commentary others make on the news that may come from it, and avoid the source. That's what I do, the style does get to me, as it sounds extremely fake.

Look, GW is a big corporation and it must be treated as such: one must be careful not to get suckered by marketing, make very guarded and rational choices purchasing, and expect them to exploit every single advantage that their dominant market power affords them. 

Do that, and focus on the positives; the more people that do that, the less they'll invest in that fake nice slightly hidden commercials.

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I agree. I am feeling increasingly dissatisfied that half the stuff I read on the Internet seems to be thinly veiled advertisements for things I could buy! I used to be quite keen on reading the hobby and lore articles on Warcom, but in the last year or so I've been going there less and less, and waiting to get the warhammer news through the forums here instead. I feel like following the Rumour Thread is a far more entertaining way to learning the exact same information, and gives more of a sense of what the actual warhammer community is saying and thinking. That said, even that gets a bit repetitive after a while...

I'm rarely super excited for the new GW releases these days. Its nice to know what's coming up, but none of the new armies have been a must buy for me really since DoK came out. I'm quite happy with that situation, as it means I can pretty much phase out the hype and just focus on collecting the things that I want to collect, without having to obsess over what the "next big thing" is this week.

I feel the same way with my other hobbies. I'll find out through my FLGS when a new D&D book comes out, so I don't need to obsessively read the WotC news announcements. I've also not been too fussed with the last few years of lego releases, so its been easier to just browse the shelves occasionally, rather than hoping for the next theme of my dreams every time the new wave comes out. I don't even know when the new wave does come out at the moment, so I guess I'm winning with that one!

So if I can just step back from the GW hype machine a bit more, and probably stop reading BoLS and the rumour thread then I'll be happier I think. Though then of course I need to find more neutral blogs and youtube channels which are fun to read, without shilling some sort of product. 

Then I could happily browse the net in peace from our capitalist overlords!

 

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@Rodiger same here, the shine has rubbed off entirely.

 

I usually visit WHC to see if there is anything new that interests me (announcement of new Models), then I leave the page since all of the rest has ZERO value.

Anyway, the hobby is still fun, once you‘ve got the Minis you want you don‘t need GW‘s „infos“ anymore 😁
 

 

We can expect a conscience and correct actions from a company, it is NOT entirely about money.

Edit rant end. Back to positivity... like Malekith and Morathi, holding hands while dancing through the ruins of Ulthuan 😃

Edited by JackStreicher
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GW's community online is mostly facebook comments, Twitch and Instagram. It is limited, but then again they do face to face at stores; they do face to face at their factory site; there are also some fantastic communities out there on facebook, in person and on forums (hint you're on one ;)). GW will never get that "a few dudes in a garage" feel again, they've grown and changed; but the models and lore and art are all still here as they were. Enjoy what it is for what it is; don't curse at what its not just accept it and move toward other sources for what you're after.

 

If you want community interaction and feedback you're in the spot you want to be - on TGA - a place where you can chat, share photos; ask for help; give help; go nuts with writing your own lore; read the lore of others etc... Heck you want to do a painting competition or write a long article on how to do something you can do all that - you can put into the community and be a key part of it! Or you can sit back and read and sift through the wealth of information. 

 

In the end its important to see things for what they are and, yes, sometimes as we get older we start to see the wood for the trees and we see that Warcommunity sites are mostly designed to sell us stuff; something that we might not have noticed before but was always there. That's not bad, that's just life; we can still enjoy the articles for what they are whilst seeking what we want from other sources. 

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2 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Looks like it's time to reinstall my imaginary browser plug-in that automatically replaces "greedy" with "capitalist".

I guess I should add here that I don't really ever read the WC site, and get pretty much all my news from here at TGA.  I am decidedly NOT the target for the WC site, and if GW made any huge effort to change their marketing to win over the "Big Mike" demographic they would catastrophically fail as a business.  I'm a terrible customer, with my tolerance for conversions, proxies, second-hand and third-party models, and with my almost zero hobby budget (time and money) these days, and with my already completed 7-10 full armies (almost none of which were purchased new from GW or partner stores). 

ETA: If I'm keenly interested in what they are doing at any given moment, they are in BIG TROUBLE.  eg. a thing I would buy is a conversion kit to turn push-fit Sequitors from Soul Wars into various heroes (in fact, I've used my bitx box to do just that, more than once).  What a terrible idea for them to actually do, but it's typical of the sort of thing that would be required to pivot in my direction.

Edited by amysrevenge

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There is not a lot that could be said after reading the whole post.

My advice: Use it as a 2 minuts entertainment when you are bored. 

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2 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

I agree. I am feeling increasingly dissatisfied that half the stuff I read on the Internet seems to be thinly veiled advertisements for things I could buy! I used to be quite keen on reading the hobby and lore articles on Warcom, but in the last year or so I've been going there less and less, and waiting to get the warhammer news through the forums here instead. I feel like following the Rumour Thread is a far more entertaining way to learning the exact same information, and gives more of a sense of what the actual warhammer community is saying and thinking. That said, even that gets a bit repetitive after a while...

I'm rarely super excited for the new GW releases these days. Its nice to know what's coming up, but none of the new armies have been a must buy for me really since DoK came out. I'm quite happy with that situation, as it means I can pretty much phase out the hype and just focus on collecting the things that I want to collect, without having to obsess over what the "next big thing" is this week.

I feel the same way with my other hobbies. I'll find out through my FLGS when a new D&D book comes out, so I don't need to obsessively read the WotC news announcements. I've also not been too fussed with the last few years of lego releases, so its been easier to just browse the shelves occasionally, rather than hoping for the next theme of my dreams every time the new wave comes out. I don't even know when the new wave does come out at the moment, so I guess I'm winning with that one!

I feel this as well.

I'm not that interested in new d&d releases, because I've moved on to a new system, I get the updates on kickstarter projects through the mail and a yearly "Will there be a LEGO Castle in [insert next year]?" search has sufficed for that hobby since 2012.

I do check every once in a while whether the Orlock doggies have arrived, but that's just a number count on GW's boxed games page.

The communities I am quite active in are mostly not moderated by the selling company, though maybe the FB page of Rangers of Shadowdeep is (the writer is quite active there).

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1) We are in a time unlike any we have seen before.  So perspective helps.

2) GW wants to stay a company, not a defunct company so them selling things is something you should expect them to do.  

3) Complaining is part of the hobby.

4) No one is forcing you to go.  You can look, and then leave and move onto something productive.  Literally anything else.  There is a non stop steam of "how to get better at painting" and I would bet anyone has a brush, a model and few paints (base colour, black and bone) to work on their skill.  Or a back catalogue of models to do, or an army they could improve.  

5) GW still does a pretty good job during a lock down to reach out.  the Pete Foley white board, the community outreach of posting customer's models.  I'm fairly impressed with GWs community support.   

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48 minutes ago, Beliman said:

There is not a lot that could be said after reading the whole post.

My advice: Use it as a 2 minuts entertainment when you are bored. 

Exactly what I do. I’ve always looked in to get my Warhammer ‘hit’, get excited at all the great new models. Hope that there’s something new about a faction I play or am thinking about collecting. 
 

However this year has seen a massive shift between the information and planning side of the hobby with the actual playing/tournament side of the hobby.  So while we’ve all been stuck at home and not going out/ having friends round playing, we’ve not had much else to do but browse the website (what else are we going to do? Actually paint and finish all those grey projects??). This imbalance has obviously led to a burnout of information and a hunger for actual playing for many people which is understandable.

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I have no issues with Warhammer Community at all. As a kid our local toy store use to drop their catalogue in our mail box - and I used to love that!

Warhammer Community is totally free so of course it is marketing. The thing is I find it useful for planning my purchases and keeping in touch with the wider goings on in Age of Sigmar.

Still, I take nothing away from what the original poster has said. If many are finding it inane then GW should take note.

P.S. I didn't know GW sold those rubber paint pot holders. I've knocked over a full pot of Druchii Violet that went everywhere and I think something like that could be handy.

Edited by Greyshadow
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39 minutes ago, Greyshadow said:

I have no issues with Warhammer Community at all. As a kid our local toy store use to drop their catalogue in our mail box - and I used to love that!

Warhammer Community is totally free so of course it is marketing. The thing is I find it useful for planning my purchases and keeping in touch with the wider goings on in Age of Sigmar.

Still, I take nothing away from what the original poster has said. If many are finding it inane then GW should take note.

P.S. I didn't know GW sold those rubber paint pot holders. I've knocked over a full pot of Druchii Violet that went everywhere and I think something like that could be handy.

Those paint pot holders are easily replaced if you have either greenstuff to just sculpt one, or a set of concentric drills (also nice for transparent bases)

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2 hours ago, valenswift said:

Exactly what I do. I’ve always looked in to get my Warhammer ‘hit’, get excited at all the great new models. Hope that there’s something new about a faction I play or am thinking about collecting. 
 

However this year has seen a massive shift between the information and planning side of the hobby with the actual playing/tournament side of the hobby.  So while we’ve all been stuck at home and not going out/ having friends round playing, we’ve not had much else to do but browse the website (what else are we going to do? Actually paint and finish all those grey projects??). This imbalance has obviously led to a burnout of information and a hunger for actual playing for many people which is understandable.

The whole "why read warcom when you could be actually painting" angle is actually an interesting one to consider. 

in theory I have enough hobbies that i should never get bored. I have thousands of books I can read, plenty of models to paint. I can always day dream some lore or plan an RPG scenario. There is plenty of TV I'm wanting to get round to watching...

so why pointlessly trawl the internet looking for posts or articles to read at all? I know its mostly adverts, and yet The time I've spent online on this forum and others is probably the second longest time I've spent on leisure activities today. ( 2nd place to a 3h rpg session.)

The problem is tiredness and attention. All those things I'd rather be doing take time and focus, they take a little bit of time to spin up, and use up energy rather than replenishing it. Conversely I can flick through a forum or a blog post in a five minutes break and feel vaguely refreshed to get back t o work after. 

I've tried to take advantage of the fact I'm working from home to do more productive things in my break but you can only do so much in short bursts even if you do have a painting station set up, or a novel or sourcebook by your desk. I've thus fallen back to the same unfocused net trawling that  formed my break s in the office, simply because it doesn't need focus or attention really. But in not giving it attention Im also more likely to  end up reading glorified dds, or blogs like warcom which are really just house organs. 

Maybe we need better bite-sized content. (This site is good for that at least!)

 

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The free blog of a corporate entity trying to sell its products doesn't seem like a crazy thing. It's what every business does. At least we don't have to pay for it like we used to with White Dwarf. Warcom being free advertising is fine, it's easy to click away from articles if they don't interest you. White Dwarf now being the haven for rules, articles, reports, stories etc. is a much better way to do it.

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@Rodiger I think you're spot-on. "Content Marketing" is a robust discipline that can be delivered in a variety of ways – WarCom has chosen a fairly hidebound, sales-focused approach. It's fine, but as you note, can burn some goodwill.

I'd diagnose the key problem is they're not embracing the obsessive nature of many of their fans. They've got a sizeable audience of fans that will go 80-pages deep into a thread discussing some detail on the leaked picture of a sprue. Lore obsessives who can name 943 of the 1,000 Space Marine chapters. Fans who will spend thousands of dollars constructing amazing custom armies. Yet, the modal piece of content is the digital equivalent of the spiel a store manager might give a curious 10-year-old.

A few thoughts on how the site could be improved:

+ Create more value than you capture. I don't think anyone begrudges GW making a sales pitch, but it would be nice if they didn't feel the need to capture every penny of profit in their ecosystem. E.g. It seems like GW forced Darren Latham to shut down his YouTube channel which got to 40,000+ subscribers in record time. This is a huge loss! Maybe he was losing focus at work, but assuming he wasn't, let the man moonlight and earn a few bucks on the side. Or point people to Richard Gray's Patreon as the next step after 'Eavy Metal. Other game co's have figured out how to harness their creative customer base, but GW has kept theirs largely at arm's length. 

+ More series in the mode of "Mind of Mengel." There are many brilliant hobbyists in the community who would be keen to get the exposure that WarCom provides. Give them a platform!

+ Create a "print" version of the "Hobby Roundup" stream. It's the best part of their Twitch offering IMHO and an act of true "service journalism" in that it rounds up the best painting projects shared across social media in a given week. I always come away with 1-2 new people to follow on Instagram as well.

These are obviously focused on my interests in the hobby side of the game.  And I might be biased in that I get no value from the various comic strips they produce, nor the new meta features they're doing. That said, I agree with OP more in sorrow than anger – WarCom is good, but frustrating because it could be GREAT. 

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