Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Acid_Nine]

28 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

Indeed it would be nice and although I’m fine with the range as we’ve seen without a generic “fighter” hero it also limits worthwhile command traits and artifacts to only defensive or casting ones. 
 

EDIT: just realized I’m probably being stupid as the spirit of the mountain are probably heroes so fill the generic fighter so a good target for aggressive traits and items. 

Call me old fashioned but I think that most people would like a hero that could walk through a normal sized door (fancy head gear aside) just so they could roll play that character as a general.

 

I'm already thinking of ways to make my own stone mage as a mage-fighter that I want, so there is always counts as. I think a model with a long glaive or axe would look fine as a stand in stone-mage.

 

Also, does anyone else think that the stoneguard may have 2 wounds each? they are the same size as chaos warriors based on the WD leaks, and they have the "Elite" unit size of five for 100, and they are known as being "as tough as stone"

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

looking through the core rules, you can, technicaly declare ANY model to be your general, "you see that spearman at the back of the unit of 30? yeah that one, he is my general." albiet you do sacrifice command traits.

Just a thought.

[madmac]

I do think the various leaks pretty much cement the idea that we've seen the whole range.

My feelings are...I dunno man. There's things I like but as a complete army it's hard to get excited for these guys right now. It is honestly surprising that we are only getting one temple to start with though. (Do I think the Lumineth will sell well enough to get three more expansions? Unlikely...)

In terms of Warscroll count they are definitely very low for a brand new army. OTOH, it could be argued that it's because they have only a single dual-kit option.

Lets see, KO had Three Boat Kits, basic infantry kit, balloon infantry, shootier infantry, 5 stand-alone hero kits. So 11 kits

Deepkin had Two infantry Kits, Eel Kit, Shark Kit, Lord Kit, Turtle, Mathlann, and four more hero kits. So 11 kits

Fyreslayers had Two Infantry Kits, Magmadroth Kit, three standalone hero kits. So only 6 kits, but tons of build options. (Still a pathetically small army in terms of models, obviously)

Lumineth have 3 infantry Kits, one Cav, Cow, Teclis, Eltharion, Catcaller, Stonemage...that's it. 9 kits.  You can blame them having limited hero options, but Heroes are still 5/9 box slots in the range. It's an army that has four reasonably diverse troop options, (Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Archers, Cav) and some expensive named heroes plus a bare smattering of generic ones.

What they don't have is any non-hero options that aren't basically just core troops. And their troops aren't super elite judging by the point costs, so assuming they aren't massively undercosted the Lumineth are pretty much a horde army backed up by expensive named heroes. They have 3 named heroes and 3 generic heroes which is another slightly odd tilt compared to most armies. Overall sort of a weird composition, which explains the gut feeling of more being needed.

[Lord_of_theRavenspire]

Personally, I feel that they must have at least one large-ish release in the barrel, since they put out a 'big' reveal with the cows and such, but then they cooled down with the cathaller and spells. It feels like they would want to end with more of a bang- though saying that, we have already seen two centerpieces, so I don't know how far they could go with it

[Captain Skiron]

5 hours ago, Yuviel Lightbringer said:

I do now think that yes, there is nothing left to be seen within the range. the list of units for warcry sealed that IMO. still, i'm not dissapointed with what we have, I may just need to rewrite the backstory for my army and main characters.

Well, then i might throw in an idea, as we all have noticed we are short of three units at minimum. We got warriors, spirit and a mage for Mountain, but none for other three aspects. Do not know if this was proposed here before, but perhaps Lumineth are the new stormcast - posterboys and focus of the marketing? This would explain why we are short so many models and why tyrion was basically choked - he eve hasn'y got a page in Soulbound just a mention in frame - "he is alive and well lads", it is just that we will see all of these in later releases over the years. 

[Sttufe]

9 minutes ago, Captain Skiron said:

Well, then i might throw in an idea, as we all have noticed we are short of three units at minimum. We got warriors, spirit and a mage for Mountain, but none for other three aspects. Do not know if this was proposed here before, but perhaps Lumineth are the new stormcast - posterboys and focus of the marketing? This would explain why we are short so many models and why tyrion was basically choked - he eve hasn'y got a page in Soulbound just a mention in frame - "he is alive and well lads", it is just that we will see all of these in later releases over the years. 

Nah, the SCE will stay as GW posterboys. I mean, take a look at 40k where the space marines are battling each other half the time. I don't think they are gonna change it.

[AthelLoren]

Honestly, I think that the lumineth would make great Posterboys. I like them a lot, personally, but I am a sucker for Aelves with Spears and Shields. Really.

[Captain Skiron]

Just now, Sttufe said:

Nah, the SCE will stay as GW posterboys. I mean, take a look at 40k where the space marines are battling each other half the time. I don't think they are gonna change it.

Althogh notice how few we had of them after the huge drop at the start of AoS 2.0. Sometimes it feels like GW actually monitor what community talks about.. And also on the note of SC being aliketo SM - sometimes I can't help but feel that designers knew that they would be compared because the more you compare them the more you realise the only common thing they have is the trope they are based on and the fact that they bare little hommages to roman aesthetic, the latter being the result of GW being a brirtish company. 
But back to the topic of the thread - Lumineth are definetly getting at least one update with models - they are the most logical candidates to be Slaanesh's main opponents, and he has been one huge masochistic Chehov's Rifle since year one. Who will fight them Dark aelf - unlikely it would be a spideman meme type of situation, DoK- too, Morathi to much of a joke to be an enemy to someone of Chaos God scale - Idoneth - they are slowly moving out of this whole Slaanesh vs. aelf dilemma: in Soulbound (and a friendly reminder that this trpg is indeed 100% canon) we see that they are strting to open ambassies in free cities, integrating into Sigmar's allience. So Lumineth are the most logical option. 

[AthelLoren]

Honestly, I think that the lumineth would make great Posterboys. I like them a lot, personally, but I am a sucker for Aelves with Spears and Shields. Really.

[Captain Skiron]

Just now, AthelLoren said:

Honestly, I think that the lumineth would make great Posterboys. I like them a lot, personally, but I am a sucker for Aelves with Spears and Shields. Really.

Who we are to blame you) Althogh i know a lot of people who went bananas about Mountain Aspect, and spouting stuff about how superior was fb design to AoS - you should have seen this circus. Here is a meme template made by a friend of mine for situations like these in case you would ever need it: 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

I think these releases are starting to show poor concept. This release is one dimensional “by design”. But when will we see the other elements get attention?

I think they should have split these boxes  between two elements as alternate builds at least. While the rate of releases have been crazy, there are so many factions that could use a redesign that haven’t(cities, seraphon) or need another wave (idk). I don’t foresee how they could split this into 3 more releases and people still care about the hammer cows, and their own roles in said faction being replaced by water tridents or wind falchion units

the endless spells are particularly bland, big missed opportunity to make some elemental magic creatures.

[OkayestDM]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a reference to Lumineth units that sounded like bolt-throwers in Wrath of the Everchosen when Archeon was closing in on Slannesh? Or was that just the archers? (I don't own the book, so I can't look it up.)

I like what they've shown of the new endless spells: one offensive, one defensive, and one utility.  I try never to judge the look or design of the models until I've seen them in front of me with my own 2 eyes. It can be surprising how a different paint scheme can turn an "ugly" model into something amazing.

For units we've got basic infantry, cavalry, ranged, elite infantry, monster cow/monster cow character, wizard hero, support hero, Eltharion, Teclis. Technically everything you need for a respectable army, plus some characters. That said, I'm cautiously optimistic that we haven't seen everything. The pool of generic heroes seems too small and limited, unless there's some alternate builds for the named characters that we haven't seen yet. Additionally, I feel like there would be some sort of mid-weight model  in the range (gothizzar harvester, akhelian allopex, celestar ballista), but we haven't seen anything like that either.

If I'm wrong and this is the entire line for the faction, so be it. Ironjawz have a very limited model pool and I freaking love them. Given what I've been able to glean about the Lumineth rules so far, I'm pretty sure I'm going to love them too.

[LuminethMage]

I really like the Lumineth and I'm generally happy with what we've got.

The range feels a bit limited I think also because the mountain aspect is so new and distinctive. I agree, it would have been better if we had one more element/nation in addition to Ymetrica to make the Lumineth seem more than just the mountain-bull faction.  Which in the fluff they are, but on the board, will be much less so I guess. 

It's still possible that we get a longer drawn out release with them like the Sisters of Battle and a second wave will have more, but it really looks like that's it for now. One can always hope for one or two more units as long as we haven't got the Battletome : ). 

Anyway, personally I'm really happy about the news and look forward to finally getting to play them.

 

@OkayestDM Yes, there were references to war machines. No specifics at all, just that they had war machines.

[Damosane]

So it seems hope is dead atleast until lumineth wave 2. Games workshop honestly need a new marketing team. Back to waiting for an army I like enough to invest in, thanks for the fun speculation guys! 

[Fellman]

5 hours ago, OkayestDM said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a reference to Lumineth units that sounded like bolt-throwers in Wrath of the Everchosen when Archeon was closing in on Slannesh? Or was that just the archers? (I don't own the book, so I can't look it up.)

I like what they've shown of the new endless spells: one offensive, one defensive, and one utility.  I try never to judge the look or design of the models until I've seen them in front of me with my own 2 eyes. It can be surprising how a different paint scheme can turn an "ugly" model into something amazing.

For units we've got basic infantry, cavalry, ranged, elite infantry, monster cow/monster cow character, wizard hero, support hero, Eltharion, Teclis. Technically everything you need for a respectable army, plus some characters. That said, I'm cautiously optimistic that we haven't seen everything. The pool of generic heroes seems too small and limited, unless there's some alternate builds for the named characters that we haven't seen yet. Additionally, I feel like there would be some sort of mid-weight model  in the range (gothizzar harvester, akhelian allopex, celestar ballista), but we haven't seen anything like that either.

If I'm wrong and this is the entire line for the faction, so be it. Ironjawz have a very limited model pool and I freaking love them. Given what I've been able to glean about the Lumineth rules so far, I'm pretty sure I'm going to love them too.

Ther you go

[Incineroar87]

The war machine reference could be just a lore thing like the embailors for deepkin which are referenced heavily in the battletome and stories but have yet had a model release.

[Arentius]

It could take time I remember in malign portents when Nagash assaulted the Khornate base they described catapults sending skulls screaming through the air, we didn’t get them til a long time after with the OBR

[GeneralZero]

12 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

the endless spells are particularly bland, big missed opportunity to make some elemental magic creatures.

Yep and that's why all my attention focuses on the Sons of Behemat. Why? Because not only it is an army but the fact that you can add one giant in all armies make a whole new game. And I don't care if it is competitive:  it is a new tool to have some big fun with all your ready armies. That has no price for me. (Add to that that I'm in love with big/tall minis -except teclis- and you have a winner here!)

[Khaedhras]

I don't know if this was discussed already in the thread, but I was re-reading the article from yesterday (I love magic tricks) and have seen that they modified the image associated to the Hyshian Twinstones (yesterday, the text didn't clarify how the stored power was used):

 

I can imagine playing Lumineth vs Lumineth and trying to steal the other guy's stored mojo with my own wizard...

[GeneralZero]

33 minutes ago, Khaedhras said:

I don't know if this was discussed already in the thread, but I was re-reading the article from yesterday (I love magic tricks) and have seen that they modified the image associated to the Hyshian Twinstones (yesterday, the text didn't clarify how the stored power was used):

 

I can imagine playing Lumineth vs Lumineth and trying to steal the other guy's stored mojo with my own wizard...

That clarifies things but rises new questions: can we use it more than once per turn? Can we use it when it is at dice=1 (=cast+1) ?

Example: 2 Lumi wizzards around it.  Dice=3 (for example). Wiz1 casts at +3, then dice=1. Iets say Wiz1  has another succesful cast dice=2, then wiz2 cast at +2 ?

Edited May 12, 2020 by GeneralZero

[Acid_Nine]

47 minutes ago, Khaedhras said:

I don't know if this was discussed already in the thread, but I was re-reading the article from yesterday (I love magic tricks) and have seen that they modified the image associated to the Hyshian Twinstones (yesterday, the text didn't clarify how the stored power was used):

 

I can imagine playing Lumineth vs Lumineth and trying to steal the other guy's stored mojo with my own wizard...

Honestly this would be fun for teclis too.  Lord Scrub the earth wizard casts these stones near teclis, who uses his first 4 spells on lower level / utility spells to get the number up to +5.  "And now for the spell 'Nuke of Hyish', I will drain the reservoir to cast at a +5."

[Khaedhras]

21 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

That clarifies things but rises new questions: can we use it more than once per turn? Can we use it when it is at dice=1 (=cast+1) ?

Example: 2 Lumi wizzards around it.  Dice=3 (for example). Wiz1 casts at +3, then dice=1. Iets say Wiz1  has another succesful cast dice=2, then wiz2 cast at +2 ?

I have no clue. It's tricky, for sure, and I think there's more to the warscroll that we've not seen yet. 

I am imagining it as @Acid_Nine describes, a once-per-round trick, where for instance Teclis autocasts his 4 spells, the stones charge to +5, and then a Stonemage discharges the +5 for some nuke spell and the stones go to +1 full stop, and you can't discharge the stones again the same round.

I guess that using them more times per round, even if at +1, it may be a bit too much. But so far, there's nothing in the ruling that stops that from happening. In addition, I think that additional spells after the initial +5 discharge from the Stonemage would charge the stones again. There's nothing stopping that from complying with the first part of the ruling...

Edited May 12, 2020 by Khaedhras
Mentioning @Acid_Nine

[Falkman]

34 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

That clarifies things but rises new questions: can we use it more than once per turn? Can we use it when it is at dice=1 (=cast+1) ?

Example: 2 Lumi wizzards around it.  Dice=3 (for example). Wiz1 casts at +3, then dice=1. Iets say Wiz1  has another succesful cast dice=2, then wiz2 cast at +2 ?

Or just having it constantly hand out a +1 to every casting attempt 🤔

With the news from the WD that at least some of the unit champions are wizards as well, it should be pretty easy to charge up the stones every turn.

[Aeonotakist]

34 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

Honestly this would be fun for teclis too.  Lord Scrub the earth wizard casts these stones near teclis, who uses his first 4 spells on lower level / utility spells to get the number up to +5.  "And now for the spell 'Nuke of Hyish', I will drain the reservoir to cast at a +5."

Saw the leaked of Teclis. He is almost impossible to fail in casting. He got auto cast dice on 12/10/10/10/10.

[GeneralZero]

If one can use this ES more than once per turn, I think that it is OP.  Teclis+another mage make this thing both (almost) auto casting super powers! Teclis autocast => the ES become +5 then second mage cast at +5 ?  Or even better : teclis use 2 autocast then ES=+3 then second mage use his first spell at +3 then teclis use his 3rd and 4th spell then second mage use it at +3 again??? wow the party's nuked mouaaaahahahaha