Warhammer - The Old World

[Noserenda]

I mean, with even the briefest examination, the thought of one of the most (small c) chaotic factions in the world uniformly staying below ground for centuries is absolutely ridiculous, and bear in mind a warhammer armies worth of Skaven is a drop in the rat-ocean... Similarly for Vampire counts, the Von Carsteins are laying low but aaaaaall the other vampires are up and about being much more unambiguously evil f thats what they want undead to be. Lizardmen can teleport! Their lantern hanging is just starting fires...

And thats the thing, i can be a grouchy old sod but i literally put up a froth post in out groups FB chat on Sunday talking about how keen i was for Old World instead of Epic and ive ended the work week no longer planning to buy anything tomorrow at all. Thanks Warhammer community because i am really broke after Christmas  

[CommissarRotke]

5 minutes ago, michu said:

In Khemri article GW said that they are focusing on Tomb Kings invading the Old World and not on their lands.

Yeah I really don't think we can or should ascribe lore changes to "lying" if the designers specifically picked a period that was never truly fleshed out. All of this is already made up, the designers are allowed to retool certain story points to solidify the timeline here.

[michu]

Just now, CommissarRotke said:

Yeah I really don't think we can or should ascribe lore changes to "lying" if the designers specifically picked a period that was never truly fleshed out. All of this is already made up, the designers are allowed to retool certain story points to solidify the timeline here.

Finally someone understands that

[petitionercity]

7 minutes ago, michu said:

In Khemri article GW said that they are focusing on Tomb Kings invading the Old World and not on their lands.

To be fair it is also a century before too.

[Dankboss]

How backwards compatible is Old World to 8th ed? Because inevitably there will be tons of old unsupported units like from Forge World that likely won’t get new rules. As far as I can tell stats and universal rules check out so far.

[EntMan]

2 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

This was a genuine surprise and made me extremely happy - please continue encouraging converting, GW, just like back in ye olden days!

But notice in the article it was all GW model bits used for the bashing/converting.

[Bolfrig Bearhide]

5 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

How backwards compatible is Old World to 8th ed? Because inevitably there will be tons of old unsupported units like from Forge World that likely won’t get new rules. As far as I can tell stats and universal rules check out so far.

There will be minor work, such as deciding on a specific number of stomp attacks for each monster, rather than the D6 thunderstomp they’d have in 8th, but on the whole it should be reasonably straight forward. 

[Dankboss]

13 minutes ago, Bolfrig Bearhide said:

There will be minor work, such as deciding on a specific number of stomp attacks for each monster, rather than the D6 thunderstomp they’d have in 8th, but on the whole it should be reasonably straight forward. 

I want to use my Troll Hag so from what I can tell it'll be somewhat straight forward. I'm taking a very casual approach to Old World (like not rebasing my AoS Freeguild and Gloomspite).

[Clan's Cynic]

Alternate build of the Handmaiden we haven't seen yet.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I imagine part of the reason they're pushing the TOW armies so hard is because in terms of tracking sales, every person buying up 'Darkling Covens' to use as Dark Elves in TOW technically counts as as an Age of Sigmar sale, whereas somebody buying post-reboxing Empire State Troops counts as another sale for The Old World. Similar to how the Leviathan and Contemptor finally got plastic models after about a decade, but were promptly exiled to Legends to deemphasise them in 40k. 

I do hope as a community, tournament organisers and players are pretty lax on allowing 'Legends' armies. I've already seen some panic from people more used to the 40k community's diehard need to toe the party line that it will mean "no tournament will ever allow Legends armies!"

The Horus Heresy community has largely fought off certain elements who tried to insist upon Legacies content being banned/limited from events. I hope the Fantasy scene does the same.

 

2 hours ago, Jator said:

I'm biased, of course, but it does feel wrong to leave skaven out when they're so quintessentially Old World, not to mention very popular in WHF videogames (with a franchise, Vermintide, revolving around them). Of course the other legacy armies deserve to be supported too.

But I'm pretty sure most tournaments will allow them, and that the community will keep the lists updated. Who knows, in another five years the Specialist Games may find a way to support all the armies in ToW without getting at odds with the AoS department.

The thing for me is that I never felt like Fantasy was truly dead, and I don't feel like the legacy factions will be kept out from the Old World.

 

To put it blatantly, I believe tow can probably be compared to horus heresy. And while I’m certainly probably more considered a new player, I so far have been to an events and talked to a lot of players. The horus heresy players are quite chill and the events I’ve so far gone too as well as my buddies (who have played a lot more games then me) have mostly seen legacy u its being allowed, considering that I’m guessing we’ll see the same happen for old world. I have no doubts about it and personally I’m incredible hyped playing my skaven long term in the world, no matter what one of the warhammer community writers wrote in their article.

[Kitsumy]

i dont get it. it is like if GW would want to kill oldworld even before his launch. 

if legacy armyes really dont get anything, no rules, no support, no lore, im starting to think they wont even have points, they will be as well as deleted.

and that will kill the game 100% , absolutly any comunity group actually playing any edittion of fantasy will come over to tow wen they see half of theyr players wont be able to play unless they buy a new army. and they was going to be the mayor part of tow playerbase.

 

and new players will be rare since it will be a game with too low factions there, and really old sculps, with metal and resin.

i was sooo hypee for being able to play fantasy finally with my new lizardmens sculp....

and like always gw did his typical ****** move, dropping the bomb only some hours before the release of the game, because they havent have 5 years to say upfront that half of the armyes will be dead and unplayable in the game. so none would buy new minis in order to be ready for the launch.

[The Red King]

7 hours ago, Sception said:

They already do, with the most notable options off the top of my head being Litko (link) and coveted forge (link).

while round-to-square conversion movement trays work great for 25mm infantry, however, things get more difficult when you consider that 32mm rounds don't translate to 30mm squares so evenly, and things get much worse when you start looking at cavalry and monster bases.  I was hoping to preserve AOS compatibility for my tomb kings using adapters and unit trays like this, and eventually decided that it would be too much trouble so I'll just be rebasing.

Damn I was hoping that it wouldn't be too hard to use my beasts in both games but I guess it'll be fine for casual games. 

[Ogregut]

2 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

i dont get it. it is like if GW would want to kill oldworld even before his launch. 

if legacy armyes really dont get anything, no rules, no support, no lore, im starting to think they wont even have points, they will be as well as deleted.

and that will kill the game 100% , absolutly any comunity group actually playing any edittion of fantasy will come over to tow wen they see half of theyr players wont be able to play unless they buy a new army. and they was going to be the mayor part of tow playerbase.

 

and new players will be rare since it will be a game with too low factions there, and really old sculps, with metal and resin.

i was sooo hypee for being able to play fantasy finally with my new lizardmens sculp....

and like always gw did his typical ****** move, dropping the bomb only some hours before the release of the game, because they havent have 5 years to say upfront that half of the armyes will be dead and unplayable in the game. so none would buy new minis in order to be ready for the launch.

But legacy armies are getting rules, a army list and points via pdfs. 

GW have been upfront and honest that other than the 9 factions that they are focusing on every other legacy army will get a list at the beginning so anyone with those armies can take part in TOW. 

They've also been upfront saying they won't be supported going forward or tounement legal (in official GW events). 

Someone said earlier in the thread it's clear that GW are being conservative with the game which I have to disagree with. 

They could have just rereleased old models and called it quits but instead they have retooled and cut new moulds for models and from today's articles it seems there is going to be mulpile waves for each line coming. 

The thing about releases every 6 months as well doesn't seem right. Apart from middle earth every game gets regular releases. I can't see them waiting 2 and half years to release all 9 factions. 

I think alot of people have underestimated how popular TOW is going to be. 

I'll be doing a new dark elf army as they are my fave warhammer army and I've a load of orcs and goblins that will be built for TOW. 

Cannot wait for this release!! 

[The Red King]

5 hours ago, EntMan said:

Unfortunately the corner to corner diagonal distance on a 30mm square is 42.43mm

So actually the widest distance on a 30mm square base is actually wider than a 32mm round.

You seem to know math magiks. I would love to get rough approximations etc for maybe some plasticard bases/trays for my AoS models.

Edited January 5 by The Red King

[Doko]

yes i cant believe how dirty have been this move by gw.

they have had 5 years to let us know that the half of the armys gonna be umplayables,but no........they waited untill the last moment(the day before of launch) to say us this.

so they can sell those unsuported armys for 5 years to people like me that bougth dark elfs to play them in tow and now is wasted money because we cant use them.

 

was so hard tell us this 5 or 1 year ago and not wait untill the last second to get max money?

[Ejecutor]

I am surprised. Wasn't everyone seeing this already? From the moment that they announced the core factions (and it was a long time ago) it was clear to me that we couldn't expect much from them.

Also, they are not playable in tournaments, but with the free PDFs nothing stops us from playing them.

[Kitsumy]

2 hours ago, Ejecutor said:

I am surprised. Wasn't everyone seeing this already? From the moment that they announced the core factions (and it was a long time ago) it was clear to me that we couldn't expect much from them.

Also, they are not playable in tournaments, but with the free PDFs nothing stops us from playing them.

no. it was clear that only those would be playable at the begining, because they cant support every army so fast.but lore and game would advance introducing the other armys as history evolve.

pretty different to dont get anything never. even on future, only a legacy pdf and thats all. and legacy rules in aos( the one fantasy armys got) didnt even had points for everything.

and they clearly said that those rules were made only to be able "to test the game" not in order to be able to play.

Edited January 6 by Kitsumy

[Garrac]

When you can't have Fantasy supported rules because you are an Age of Sigmar army, but you can't have Age of Sigmar miniatures because you are a Fantasy army

[Doko]

17 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:

I am surprised. Wasn't everyone seeing this already? From the moment that they announced the core factions (and it was a long time ago) it was clear to me that we couldn't expect much from them.

Also, they are not playable in tournaments, but with the free PDFs nothing stops us from playing them.

wrong,they clearly said that they coulnt release every faction at the launch and so half armys was getting pdf.

that means that every army gonna get the same support with time and not that the half armys gonna be deleted.

also how we gonna play with the pdf? if it is as aos legacy armys........no points,no spells,no army skills etc. just a pdf with the stats of units and nothing more

[Doko]

1 minute ago, Garrac said:

When you can't have Fantasy supported rules because you are an Age of Sigmar army, but you can't have Age of Sigmar miniatures because you are a Fantasy army

its a weird situation,because some armys as warriors of caos or beastmen are in aos and tow.

also my dwarfs are in city of sigmar and tow but my dark elfs of citys cant be played in tow.

dont make sense

[Luperci]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

I am surprised. Wasn't everyone seeing this already? From the moment that they announced the core factions (and it was a long time ago) it was clear to me that we couldn't expect much from them.

Also, they are not playable in tournaments, but with the free PDFs nothing stops us from playing them.

seconded, I can understand the designers limiting the scope considering it's no longer a main system. It's a shame for players of those factions and I do hope they get some love in the future though.

Edited January 6 by Luperci

[Ogregut]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

yes i cant believe how dirty have been this move by gw.

they have had 5 years to let us know that the half of the armys gonna be umplayables,but no........they waited untill the last moment(the day before of launch) to say us this.

so they can sell those unsuported armys for 5 years to people like me that bougth dark elfs to play them in tow and now is wasted money because we cant use them.

 

was so hard tell us this 5 or 1 year ago and not wait untill the last second to get max money?

It's been known for ages that not every faction would be support, even which factions will and won't was stated long ago, there is no surprises here. 

I knew full well my dark elves will only get a pdf list and that's it. Will that stop me enjoying painting and playing with them? Absolutely not, it's going to be great seeing and using them in the battlefield again. 

[Ejecutor]

I think the problem with TOW is that many people didn't follow the project until very recently and most of the things are complaining about were mentioned in those early days warcom posts. Like how a YouTuber was complaining about metal models and how they moved from resing to metal recently when ages ago warcom gave us an article where they mentioned we would have metal minis as well. Or the factions topic. It is not something recent.

[Clan's Cynic]

If TOW sells well enough, a New World (and Far East) expansion seem inevitable. 

I don't like coming across as a GW shill or that I'm being dismissive because "****** you, got mine (Dwarfs)" but I think some people are just taking the "they're not legal for tournament play" thing way too literally. It's been wild how many people I've seen straight up saying GW has 'squatted their army again' like they're pouring petrol on them and setting them alight. 

We've known it'd be a get-you-by PDF for a while. If people in your community are having a hissy fit towards you putting Skaven or Dark Elves on the board because "noooooo GW said it's Legends so I won't play with or against them!!!" they were always going to be a pretty miserable opponent to play against regardless. The more push back this idea that Legends = Literally Unplayable gets, the better (regardless of game system). 

Remember that Specialist Team are not 40k or AoS, in that not even the 'core armies' are going to be receiving points and balance changes every six months. The PDFs are probably going to have far more longevity to them than anything Legends for 40k/AoS. If the balance of them turns out to be pretty awful, yeah, that is going to suck... but based on Heresy and the like, I don't think it's going to be much different for core armies either.

Edited January 6 by Clan's Cynic

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

For me, it’s today’s messaging around it that’s rubbed me up the wrong way a little.

I was definitely in the camp that up until today had been hearing “these factions won’t feature in the main story, they won’t be our focus, and they likely won’t be receiving new models, but you can still collect and play everyone and everything that was in 8th!”

I was very excited to revisit a nostalgia project (in my case, Lizardmen). I felt included, as in “great! We’re not a part of the narrative but they’re giving us PDFs regardless and I’ll still be able to play. And maybe in a future campaign they’ll shift to a different continent, or the game will grow enough that armies going unsupported now finally get some Old World love!”

Today, I’d say the messaging they put out was very much “those other armies? Yeah there will be a PDF but remember now, you won’t get any of the really fun stuff and actually you should really be collecting one of these new armies if you want the full experience.”

I would have felt much happier hearing that second message from the outset. It might have helped me pick and get excited about a different faction, and it wouldn’t have left me feeling anti-climactic a literal day before all the buzz finally kicks off, after all these years.

AoS Seraphon are fun, but they’re not Lizardmen. The Lizardmen’s whole culture has shifted from devolved jungle-dwelling ancients, eagerly re-enacting rituals they barely recall, let alone understand, hanging off the every word of bloated, batrachian mage-priests who might wake once every hundred years or so to catch a fly and bury some distant settlement beneath an earthquake before drifting off again to dream about plaques even they can barely read. They were enigmatic, cold, in many ways quite scary; a remnant of prehistoric times, clinging on in the sweltering shadows of their ruined temple-cities. 

Seraphon are (like much of AoS) Marvel characters, dropping in from space-pyramids to launch a salvo and blow up a Silver Tower, their slann lively as they teleport around the realms, flinging around spells like a skink does javelins and generally saving the day. Their once mastery of magic, totally vanilla, even nondescript in a setting where gods pop up every other day (game). GW somehow sucked all the mystery, intrigue, and sense of the venerable out of Lord Kroak (his model is, of course, breathtaking).

I was excited to return to the Lizardmen and the setting as I knew it, and I will still try to. 🐸 

Edited January 6 by The Brotherhood of Necros