Warhammer - The Old World

[LordSolarMach]

23 hours ago, LordSolarMach said:

I guess, as an amendment to my previous post, that while the Warmaster "Undead Hero on Zombie Dragon" was initially released for an Undead faction, when they expanded the Warmaster range from its initial six armies* to fourteen** they did change the name to Tomb Kings, and kept the Zombie Dragon.

As further amendment: I've done some more poking around, and the initial Undead list (in the rulebook) was definitely more proto-Tomb Kings, then 4th edition Undead leftovers.

For example, despite still being called Undead the characters were Tomb Kings and Liche Priests. (Compared to the Necromancers, Vampire Counts, Liches, Wight Lords, Mummy Tomb Kings, and Wraiths of the old WHFB army.)

The Warmaster rulebook also includes a piece of art of a bunch of Zombie Dragons hanging out in Khemri, as well as 4th edition style Carrion (which were ridden by Wraiths and had bat wings):

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LordSolarMach

[Noserenda]

The clarification is good for my brain @LordSolarMach as i definitely remembered them being Tomb kings in Warmaster, lead by Mummies and chariot focused and all

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

28 minutes ago, LordSolarMach said:

As further amendment: I've done some more poking around, and the initial Undead list (in the rulebook) was definitely more proto-Tomb Kings, then 4th edition Undead leftovers.

For example, despite still being called Undead the characters were Tomb Kings and Liche Priests. (Compared to the Necromancers, Vampire Counts, Liches, Wight Lords, Mummy Tomb Kings, and Wraiths of the old WHFB army.)

The Warmaster rulebook also includes a piece of art of a bunch of Zombie Dragons hanging out in Khemri, as well as 4th edition style Carrion (which were ridden by Wraiths and had bat wings):

 

Thanks for taking the time to do this. I am always super interested in perspective on older editions, because GW actually does frequently go to their history when designing new stuff.

It will be interesting to see if this really is where they are going with the old world, kind of relaxing the themes and aesthetics of the army, because it would definitely be different from their strategy in AoS, where they seem to be pushing for stronger faction identities for the most part.

[LordSolarMach]

There are some oddities in the Warmaster range... or, I guess it was a fluid time.

For example: the Undead (and later Tomb King) Skeletons unit has big scythes, which doesn't really fit with what became the Tomb King aesthetic. (3rd edition's Undead did have a Grim Reapers unit that was just Skeletons with Scythes.)

Or: the 4th edition WHFB Undead had Screaming Skull Catapults. The Warmaster Undead then had... Skull Chukkas, before the new Tomb Kings brought back the name Screaming Skull Catapult.

(For reference: the 4th edition Undead book was 1994, 5th edition Vampire Counts was '99, Warmaster's Undead 2000, 6th edition Vampire Counts 2001, 6th edition Tomb Kings 2003, Warmaster Armies' Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts 2006.)

Edited September 19, 2023 by LordSolarMach

[Sir Grimm]

Hello there fellow Old World enthusiasts! 

Can any of you be kind enough to point me towards that Hastings Rumor about TOW and new kits? Tried to find it online, but couldn't.  

[RexHavoc]

1 hour ago, Sir Grimm said:

Hello there fellow Old World enthusiasts! 

Can any of you be kind enough to point me towards that Hastings Rumor about TOW and new kits? Tried to find it online, but couldn't.  

He was on twitter. I can't link it as twitter always covers the posts with the login/account creation popup. I'm too lazy to remove the popup and get to the posts but you can probably find it easily enough with an account there.

[cyrus]

2 hours ago, Sir Grimm said:

Hello there fellow Old World enthusiasts! 

Can any of you be kind enough to point me towards that Hastings Rumor about TOW and new kits? Tried to find it online, but couldn't.  

these are the latest Valrak rumors 

Summary:
Release Q1 2024

Boxset contents:
Each box get their own core rulesets (probably means core rulebook in both boxes?)

Bretonnia: 70+ models
Big chunk of Men-at-Arms (two units?)
Big chunk of Archers
Two lances of Knights
Unit of three Pegasus knights
Lord on Pegasus

Only the Lord on Pegasus will be new, everything else is old fantasy models

Tomb Kings: 90+ models
Skeletons
Archers
Knights (Necropolis Knights?)
Chariots
Lich riding a Dragon

again only the Lich will be new.

 

[Sir Grimm]

1 hour ago, cyrus said:

these are the latest Valrak rumors 

Summary:
Release Q1 2024

Boxset contents:
Each box get their own core rulesets (probably means core rulebook in both boxes?)

Bretonnia: 70+ models
Big chunk of Men-at-Arms (two units?)
Big chunk of Archers
Two lances of Knights
Unit of three Pegasus knights
Lord on Pegasus

Only the Lord on Pegasus will be new, everything else is old fantasy models

Tomb Kings: 90+ models
Skeletons
Archers
Knights (Necropolis Knights?)
Chariots
Lich riding a Dragon

again only the Lich will be new.

 

Valrak has been spreading so many different "this is the truth" TOW rumors in the last couple of months, that I don't really give them/him much credit anymore. Additionally this last one covers only the "Battalion" army boxes. Lets say they are true, that still leaves a lot of discussion ground concerning other units we are hopefully getting. 

On that topic I was also thinking we might get new dual kit of Questing/Grail knights, the confirmed Foot Knights, Damsel on Foot as well as a Mounted one and to top it all a Hippogryph King (on top of the models that have been already revealed). Given the leaked Pegasus sprue I think it's from the Hippogryph King box that will contain a Pegasus option as well. If you study the bits you will see that the model front legs and head is easily interchangeable and a pair of talons and eagle head could fit in perfectly. Additionally the old Hippogryph was not so much bigger than a Pegasus so it kinda fits in. Hope I am wrong though and we do get a separate bigger centerpiece Hippogryph model, but I think GW will try and maximize output with the new plastic boxes.   

Edited September 28, 2023 by Sir Grimm

[Sception]

liche riding dragon seems a particularly odd choice for Tomb Kings, makes it hard to take that rumor seriously.

Also 90 odd models mostly being old TK skeletons is similarly hard to credit.  I'm not saying I expect new skeletons - though If I were going to do just one new plastic sprue for old world, it would be basic TK skeletons - the 8e plastic tomb guard, including necroknights and sphinx crew, hold up well enough, but the basic skeleton bodies used for warriors, archers, cavalry, and chariots really don't, and a single new body sprue could potentially cover all of those units....

But yeah, while I don't actually ~expect~ new TK skittles, I'd also be surprised if GW thinks they can get people to buy ~that many~ of the old ones in a single box. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Sception

[michu]

Another leak from reddit (apparently not the same person as the last sprue, but it's the same kind of sprue)

[Rebluff]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:58 AM, cyrus said:

these are the latest Valrak rumors 

Summary:
Release Q1 2024

Boxset contents:
Each box get their own core rulesets (probably means core rulebook in both boxes?)

Bretonnia: 70+ models
Big chunk of Men-at-Arms (two units?)
Big chunk of Archers
Two lances of Knights
Unit of three Pegasus knights
Lord on Pegasus

Only the Lord on Pegasus will be new, everything else is old fantasy models

Tomb Kings: 90+ models
Skeletons
Archers
Knights (Necropolis Knights?)
Chariots
Lich riding a Dragon

again only the Lich will be new.

 

I literally just started paying attention to Old World when I found out tomb kings were going to be back, so apologies if this is a stupid question but:

Are they also giving Tomb Kings and/or Brettonians AoS rules? Because Tomb Kings specifically being squatted was one of the dumbest lasting decisions in AoS. Those models fit the AoS aesthetic better than some of the newer AoS factions do.

[novakai]

1 minute ago, Rebluff said:

I literally just started paying attention to Old World when I found out tomb kings were going to be back, so apologies if this is a stupid question but:

Are they also giving Tomb Kings and/or Brettonians AoS rules? Because Tomb Kings specifically being squatted was one of the dumbest lasting decisions in AoS. Those models fit the AoS aesthetic better than some of the newer AoS factions do.

It work on by a completely different team and they have said there no cross over between the two system.

similar to how specialist game like Necromunda or recently HH model don’t cross into 40K (outside of legends rules which TK already have in AoS)

[GhostShark]

I wonder if they plan to update the armies in waves? So older models released now may slowly be replaced by new models later. If that's the case, a big box of 80 or 90 old miniatures and a new centerpiece accompanied by a few separate new releases isn't TOO surprising. New players can buy the big box and get playing right away. Old players can buy the separate new releases to supplement their existing armies. Both types of players can buy new updated models in the next wave.

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, GhostShark said:

I wonder if they plan to update the armies in waves? So older models released now may slowly be replaced by new models later. If that's the case, a big box of 80 or 90 old miniatures and a new centerpiece accompanied by a few separate new releases isn't TOO surprising. New players can buy the big box and get playing right away. Old players can buy the separate new releases to supplement their existing armies. Both types of players can buy new updated models in the next wave.

Maybe if sales are wildly over predictions? I suspect a big part of the selling point for GW is that all the design work is already done and the moulds already exist. I could otherwise see them revising models once theyve been round every army and sales are good, though i suspect the first "stretch goal" would be the new armies they did for the computer game.

[Beliman]

4 hours ago, GhostShark said:

I wonder if they plan to update the armies in waves? So older models released now may slowly be replaced by new models later. If that's the case, a big box of 80 or 90 old miniatures and a new centerpiece accompanied by a few separate new releases isn't TOO surprising. New players can buy the big box and get playing right away. Old players can buy the separate new releases to supplement their existing armies. Both types of players can buy new updated models in the next wave.

It's all about the production rate and the warehouse & logistics behind it.
I don't expect to see a full refresh range until a few years unless it's something completely new like Cathay or Kislev or whatever.

[novakai]

18 hours ago, Beliman said:

It's all about the production rate and the warehouse & logistics behind it.
I don't expect to see a full refresh range until a few years unless it's something completely new like Cathay or Kislev or whatever.

Even then they not expanding their warehouse or production in the coming years either way, time are a bit tough down in the UK

[Chikout]

My understanding is that GW is trying to expand their production and warehouse capacity but have run into problems with both. It seems that they simply don't have the capacity to support another game system on the same scale as AoS or even the current level of Heresy. 

Thanks to the rights holder of Lord of the rings being sold recently, the middle earth game is kind of on hiatus right now. It looks like GW are going to use the Old World game to fill that slot. I'd expect quarterly releases of a couple of kits and old kits being returned on a made to order basis. Maybe they will put a couple of kits from each faction back into full production but I doubt we'll see more than that. 

If GW sort their production issues and the old world remains popular we may see some  changes but I don't expect to see anything like that for years. 

[EccentricCircle]

4 hours ago, Chikout said:

My understanding is that GW is trying to expand their production and warehouse capacity but have run into problems with both. It seems that they simply don't have the capacity to support another game system on the same scale as AoS or even the current level of Heresy. 

Thanks to the rights holder of Lord of the rings being sold recently, the middle earth game is kind of on hiatus right now. It looks like GW are going to use the Old World game to fill that slot. I'd expect quarterly releases of a couple of kits and old kits being returned on a made to order basis. Maybe they will put a couple of kits from each faction back into full production but I doubt we'll see more than that. 

If GW sort their production issues and the old world remains popular we may see some  changes but I don't expect to see anything like that for years. 

Has there been any word on what's going on with middle earth? Or even informed speculation. I knew the rights had changef hands and was worried by the lack of support this year. It's always been my favourite GW game, but it seems to increasingly be the odd one out in a lineup otherwise dominated by their own IP. Feels like they are only keeping the license so that their competition can't pick it up...

but that sure makes me concerned about it's continued support! 

[Chikout]

26 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Has there been any word on what's going on with middle earth? Or even informed speculation. I knew the rights had changef hands and was worried by the lack of support this year. It's always been my favourite GW game, but it seems to increasingly be the odd one out in a lineup otherwise dominated by their own IP. Feels like they are only keeping the license so that their competition can't pick it up...

but that sure makes me concerned about it's continued support! 

I'm not even sure that the company who brought the rights knows what's going on. They were bought by Embracer who are in a bit of a mess right now. They seem to be run by someone who doesn't really know what to do now the  Saudi money has dried up. 

[EccentricCircle]

15 hours ago, Chikout said:

I'm not even sure that the company who brought the rights knows what's going on. They were bought by Embracer who are in a bit of a mess right now. They seem to be run by someone who doesn't really know what to do now the  Saudi money has dried up. 

Oh dear, that doesn't bode well. I'm just hopeful that even if GW aren't too fussed about the license, they at least won't want to let it go and have one of their competitors snap it up. We shall see I guess!

[Clan's Cynic]

On 10/7/2023 at 6:09 AM, EccentricCircle said:

Has there been any word on what's going on with middle earth? Or even informed speculation. I knew the rights had changef hands and was worried by the lack of support this year. It's always been my favourite GW game, but it seems to increasingly be the odd one out in a lineup otherwise dominated by their own IP. Feels like they are only keeping the license so that their competition can't pick it up...

but that sure makes me concerned about it's continued support! 

If I remember right, on the stream they revealed Get Off The Road they said more stuff for MESBG was coming, but something happened behind the scenes that necessitated it being pushed back. 

[Clan's Cynic]

Foot Battle Standard Bearer revealed early, as a tease "of many reveals coming this week for Warhammer: The Old World".

[Chikout]

That's 4 resin models for Brettonia so far. Hopefully Tomb kings get an equal number. I wonder why they are going all in on Brettonia rather than keeping the reveals more balanced. 

[Marcvs]

6 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Foot Battle Standard Bearer revealed early, as a tease "of many reveals coming this week for Warhammer: The Old World".

Don't know if somebody else said this already somewhere but I find it quite funny that it's yet another model on foot... for Bretonnia. And the only mounted model shown so far was not even a knight. It seems a weird choice in terms of the expectations of the public concerning the faction, but maybe it's just me.

[Noserenda]

Yeah i definitely preferred the Design decision that Bret knights always ride horses and left the peasants largely to their own devices as a contrast the the Empire's more combined arms doctrine. I guess they are trying to do new/old things to make them more popular at cost to their character.

They cant have been unpopular just because GW ignored them for years *eyeroll*