Warhammer - The Old World

[Baron Klatz]

3 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

So... that bit about Khuresh and Ind not being added seems to be a bit of a tzeentchian truth (better known as a lie of omission)

Likely why Andy talked about other races like Brets having outposts in Ind alongside that part.

Araby 2.0, they’re on the map but everyone else is in their house.

[Twisted Firaun]

30 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Likely why Andy talked about other races like Brets having outposts in Ind alongside that part.

Araby 2.0, they’re on the map but everyone else is in their house.

Please don't bring up Araby, I'm still sad we haven't gotten anything yet  .

There's so much they could do in order to make the faction unique without falling into Terrorists or the standard Arabian Nights bit! use a religion based on the old Nehekharan gods and Zoroastrianism, with a focus agains undead corruption (there's a one-off god in the Neferata book by Josh Reynolds called The Great Ghul, use him as a stand in for Nagash and you're golden). Base their army off of the Abbasid Caliphate or one of the Islamic Gunpowder Empires (Safavid, Ottoman, the Mughals(Ind comes to mind). For a special character there's the Golden Magus from the Dreadfleet game, he'd be perfect for total war since he's revealed to be a Tzeentchian Sorcerer (grant him access to low level daemons like they did Arkhan). Finally, chaos could be infiltrating the upper class and learned men via Slaanesh in the form of a alluring dancer/merchant, instead of just Tzeentch because it looks like he's busy with Cathay.

Edit: Sorry for my rant here, my brain's been doing this since The Old World was announced and CA introduced Cathay.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Loyal Son of Khemri

[Public Universal Duardin]

14 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Please don't bring up Araby, I'm still sad we haven't gotten anything yet  .

There's so much they could do in order to make the faction unique without falling into Terrorists or the standard Arabian Nights bit! use a religion based on the old Nehekharan gods and Zoroastrianism, with a focus agains undead corruption (there's a one-off god in the Neferata book by Josh Reynolds called The Great Ghul, use him as a stand in for Nagash and you're golden). Base their army off of the Abbasid Caliphate or one of the Islamic Gunpowder Empires (Safavid, Ottoman, the Mughals(Ind comes to mind). For a special character there's the Golden Magus from the Dreadfleet game, he'd be perfect for total war since he's revealed to be a Tzeentchian Sorcerer (grant him access to low level daemons like they did Arkhan). Finally, chaos could be infiltrating the upper class and learned men via Slaanesh in the form of a alluring dancer/merchant, instead of just Tzeentch because it looks like he's busy with Cathay.

Edit: Sorry for my rant here, my brain's been doing this since The Old World was announced and CA introduced Cathay.

If they'd want to be inspired by history, they could focus on how the middle east up to the mongol invasion was the enlightened, advanced civilisation and the "Franks" of Europe were seen as dirty barbarians. It would be a nice reversion of classic euro-essentialist fantasy /and/ be based on history. Make Araby an equal to the realms of the Old World.

Sadly I think the time for Araby to be included in TW at least has passed, which is a shame as I'd rather see Araby than Khuresh fleshed out!

[Twisted Firaun]

5 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

If they'd want to be inspired by history, they could focus on how the middle east up to the mongol invasion was the enlightened, advanced civilisation and the "Franks" of Europe were seen as dirty barbarians. It would be a nice reversion of classic euro-essentialist fantasy /and/ be based on history. Make Araby an equal to the realms of the Old World.

Sadly I think the time for Araby to be included in TW at least has passed, which is a shame as I'd rather see Araby than Khuresh fleshed out!

Until the last DLC pack is released, I will fight for Araby's inclusion in Total War and The Old World. I'm used to hopeless campaigns, I'm a Tomb Kings player and a Chaos Dwarf fan.

[Public Universal Duardin]

56 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Until the last DLC pack is released, I will fight for Araby's inclusion in Total War and The Old World. I'm used to hopeless campaigns, I'm a Tomb Kings player and a Chaos Dwarf fan.

As a Bretonnian player, Dogs of War enjoyer and fellow Chaos Dwarf fan, I salute you as a comrade-in-arms!

[EccentricCircle]

5 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

As a Bretonnian player, Dogs of War enjoyer and fellow Chaos Dwarf fan, I salute you as a comrade-in-arms!

As someone with chaos dwarf tomb king and third party araby armies I support this unholy alliance of desert power! Sadly have very few brets though!

[Clan's Cynic]

11 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Sadly I think the time for Araby to be included in TW at least has passed, which is a shame as I'd rather see Araby than Khuresh fleshed out!

With 3 being the last game, I fully expect they'll milk as much from the cow as they possibly can. 

Considering Warmaster had models for Araby and GW seems far more open for OCDonutSteal content on CA's part, I would be very surprised if we don't see Araby added at some point - even if that's later on in the games life cycle.  

I don't think they're going to let a thing like "3's story campaign focuses on the north of the world" stop them when there's money to be made, particularly when it's no secret the vast majority of people play Mortal Empires anyway.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Clan's Cynic

[Twisted Firaun]

9 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

As someone with chaos dwarf tomb king and third party araby armies I support this unholy alliance of desert power! Sadly have very few brets though!

 

5 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

As a Bretonnian player, Dogs of War enjoyer and fellow Chaos Dwarf fan, I salute you as a comrade-in-arms!

I hereby dub this alliance the “Fiery Desert Crusade!” Long may it complain and grudge until our armies come again!

[Twisted Firaun]

On 2/19/2022 at 4:52 PM, Clan's Cynic said:

With 3 being the last game, I fully expect they'll milk as much from the cow as they possibly can. 

Considering Warmaster had models for Araby and GW seems far more open for OCDonutSteal content on CA's part, I would be very surprised if we don't see Araby added at some point - even if that's later on in the games life cycle.  

I don't think they're going to let a thing like "3's story campaign focuses on the north of the world" stop them when there's money to be made, particularly when it's no secret the vast majority of people play Mortal Empires anyway.

I hear they’re calling Immortal Empires this time around due to the Daemons.
I really hope GW and CA bring back Araby like they did Kislev and Cathay. Just imagine all the stuff they could use if they did some research, heck I’ve been doing it so much I have enough ideas to write my own book! One thing I would really like to see if they do recreate Araby is the Djinn, as they’re my favorite piece of folklore outside of ancient Egypt. If they’re looking for monsters they could use the Simurgh (a magical, peacock/phoenix hybrid with the face of a man) or the Huma (a mythical bird from Iran that spends its entire life in the air).

Edit: The prophet Whitefang just liked my post! ARABY CONFIRMED!!!!

Edited February 21, 2022 by Loyal Son of Khemri

[Kronos]

 I’m so amped to return to the Old World. My excitement for it is now even more amplified knowing that we’ll be exploring more corners of that world.

Cathay has always intrigued me like I imagine most enthusiasts. Kislev perhaps more because we only ever got some dribs and drabs and Bear Cavalry is just too cool a trope. 
 

I am however noticing a lack of “baddies”. We’ve had some flavours being mentioned here and there with Orcs on the Bret map and Hobgoblins on the cathay map. I hope, wildly and optimistically that the Chaos Dwarfs are going to be a big feature in the Old World with some tied in releases for AoS. It’s the only reason I can assume for such a delayed release on everyones favourite Dwarfs (I don’t care, I’m not listening to you cave dwellers). I guess the same could be said for beastmen, their look and style wont alter too much from Old World to AoS so I feel it will be one of those good for both systems hence their forever lack of a release. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Kronos

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Total Warhammer 3 is pretty wonderful from what I've played this week. I wasn't that hyped about playing as Kislev or Cathay because they don't have any particular nostalgic pull from the mainstream tabletop game, but the Kislev tutorial mini-campaign got me into them pretty quickly, and is really nicely pitched to appeal to both people who want the game mechanics explained to them a bit more clearly and people who appreciate a throwback Shadow of the Horned Rat style experience with a more linear, narrative-heavy progression. The story itself is 100% predictable and it 100% doesn't matter because it leans into it so hard.

I had intended to start out the full campaign as Tzeentch based on my first AOS army, but a brief brush with Khorne convinced me to live a little and go down the Kill Everything route and it's so fun and flavourful. The skills in the character skill tree are called things like KILL!, MAIM! And DESTROY! and some of Skarbrand's mission fluff texts are written in HULK SMASH monosyllabic speak to reflect his uh limited range of interests. I recently suffered an increase in Slaanesh corruption because a sinister tailor moved into one of my camps and sold everyone fancy clothes that made them obsessively look at themselves in the mirror all day

Although it is (correctly) WHFB-centred, the heavy focus on the Chaos gods and the realm of chaos make it the most complete AOS game so far imo. Hopefully the Old World taps into this energy a little bit. Even if it's set in the distant past I think they could do worse than release MESBG-style campaign books that focus on the characters and storylines from the three total warhammer games, accompanied by made to order releases and maybe the odd 2523—appropriate cheeky resculpt 👀

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jefferson Skarsnik

[Twisted Firaun]

Araby lives! Thank you Cubicle7, for keeping the Fantasy-Middle East alive. I'm particularly interested in the Black Scimitar Guard and the Horsemen pictured above (it looks like his horse is covered in vampire skulls!). 

[Kaleb Daark]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

Araby lives! Thank you Cubicle7, for keeping the Fantasy-Middle East alive. I'm particularly interested in the Black Scimitar Guard and the Horsemen pictured above (it looks like his horse is covered in vampire skulls!). 

Could I interest sir in the old Regiment of Renown : Mad Mullah Aklan'd's death commando's? 

http://www.solegends.com/citrr/1rr06mullahs/index.htm

 

Honourable enemies included the Knights of Origo:

http://www.solegends.com/citrr/1rr02origo/index.htm

 

and it was only a matter of time that some naughty books from Araby were discovered.. and our favourite god of rage and battle got his first ever mention ever

http://www.solegends.com/citrr/1rr16redemption/index.htm

 

And this wee story led on to their remaining brethren declaring their war against chaos wherever they may find it:

http://www.solegends.com/citrr/1rr17flame/index.htm

 

what is most worrying is that I've owned all of these regiments... no wonder I look like one of Mordini's nightmare legion now!

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Kaleb Daark

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

Man, I dunno about you lot, but I'm really excited for proper Black Orcs.

Yeah, yeah, 'Ardboyz are the old Black Orc models, but the fiction of the 'Ardboyz don't capture what makes Black Orcs so cool. BOs aren't just "'Ey, if we put on 'eavy armor like dem big lads, we can scrap longer" blockheads and hooligans and hangers-on - they're professionals, and professionals have standards. Their kit is a kit that they maintain and take pride in, rather than just some scrap metal and miscellaneous weapons. They're not fighters, they're soldiers. They don't just pick fights for fun, they legitimately wage war. They think about the long game. Their leaders give thought to "loj-i-stiks" and the supplies needed to keep their Waaagh! going as an active campaign.

In short, they're competent and thinkers on some level, and that's rad as hell. They represent a culture shock to traditional orc-y ways, which can potentially even lead to (dare I say it) more nuanced details for different orc cultures and factions.

[AaronWilson]

I think we're still a few years away from a release for The Old World realistically!

[Twisted Firaun]

11 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

I think we're still a few years away from a release for The Old World realistically!

I'd say either late this year or mid 2023 is when we'll start to see stuff for the Old World to be released. In particular I think we'll see some old plastic kits that discontinued make a comeback (High Elves and Tomb Kings for the most part).

[Baron Klatz]

If it was late this year then they’d have already shown up in the big announcements and got hints on the Adepticon panel.

I think it’s way better to go with what Runebrush said of the devs at the 2020 interview saying “2023-2025” and pushing it back further to go with all the unexpected troubles of the world and put it much closer to 2024-2026.

By many accounts it’s a small team afterall and even when the main studios were working on AoS that took over 7 years(concepts worked on back in 7th edition and rules developed in 2010) to make. That they likely started in 2019 I’d put the timeframe in a similar manner despite it being a relatively simpler specialist game. 🤷‍♂️

[Jator]

(This will feel as coming out of nowhere, but there was some talk about TOW in the rumour thread, and I thought my rant belonged here rather than there)

Without cross-compatibility with AoS, I fear for the longevity of the game. 
Most HH miniatures are usable in 40k, and even if they're were not, marines are popular enough to  sustain the game by themshelves.
The Old World won't have that luxury. With the focus on square bases and rank and file, perfectly fitting ranges like the Soulblight Gravelords are practically unusable. 

There're may be ways to mitigate this (like using bigger square bases to fit the round ones) but rumours -and familiarity with GW- suggest they're not interested in "solving" this.

[RuneBrush]

45 minutes ago, Jator said:

(This will feel as coming out of nowhere, but there was some talk about TOW in the rumour thread, and I thought my rant belonged here rather than there)

Without cross-compatibility with AoS, I fear for the longevity of the game. 
Most HH miniatures are usable in 40k, and even if they're were not, marines are popular enough to  sustain the game by themshelves.
The Old World won't have that luxury. With the focus on square bases and rank and file, perfectly fitting ranges like the Soulblight Gravelords are practically unusable. 

There're may be ways to mitigate this (like using bigger square bases to fit the round ones) but rumours -and familiarity with GW- suggest they're not interested in "solving" this.

I don't necessarily agree.  I think The Old World will appeal to a different player so cross-compatibility with AoS isn't going to make or break the game.  Lots of people will pick up The Old World rules with the intention of using an old WHFB army with them, likely many of them aren't interested in AoS.

You're also looking at this from the perspective of directly porting a unit from one game system over to another verbatim.  Most people I've spoken to aren't that interested in dual-system'ing and more interested in taking a fresh Old World model and using as a special character in their AoS army.  From the perspective of 30k/40k the units most commonly used in multiple systems are daemons and knights rather than marines.

[SunStorm]

Continuing from the Rumour thread, I don't see anything from GW so far that says TOW is at risk of not being supported in the long term.

Both Necromunda and Bloodbowl started under specialist games and have got huge ongoing support, with plenty of releases in both resin and plastic, while neither has directly compatible miniatures with AoS or 40k. Kitbashers/Converters will always find stuff they can use however. Both of these ranges now nearly outdo the original versions of the games, in terms of scope and miniature range

Other examples would be Adepticus Titanicus and Aeronautica Imperialis. Both are a completely different scale to 40k and again outside of the kit bashers there is no cross-compatibility with the other game systems. They are not something I activly collect, but they seem to have a strong fan base and get regular releases for new rules and minis from both GW and FW.

There was a period where games where created by GW that were then dropped quickly (Dreadfleet comes to mind), but I think those days are behind us.

The only threat is if they release it and nobody buys it. But considering how well received their other revamps of old systems have been, plus how much talk online is looking forward to this, I see no logical reason it wouldn't be supported. 

 

 

 

[Beliman]

53 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I don't necessarily agree.  I think The Old World will appeal to a different player so cross-compatibility with AoS isn't going to make or break the game.  Lots of people will pick up The Old World rules with the intention of using an old WHFB army with them, likely many of them aren't interested in AoS.

You're also looking at this from the perspective of directly porting a unit from one game system over to another verbatim.  Most people I've spoken to aren't that interested in dual-system'ing and more interested in taking a fresh Old World model and using as a special character in their AoS army.  From the perspective of 30k/40k the units most commonly used in multiple systems are daemons and knights rather than marines.

100% agree.

I'm not a big fan of actual AoS rules (AoS rules are between this two big worlds, not complex enough and too much bloated to be simple fast-phased game) and I'm really curious to see what TOW will become. 

It could be a big hook for our gaming group.

[Jator]

My point is, TOW being a mass-battle game, it needs a bigger inversion than other specialist games. If army composition is anything like old warhammer editions, a single faction would need as many kits as BB got released during its first three years.

Cross-compatibility would ease this: You may use some AoS units you already own to save money, or maybe buy some new ToW kit with great value because you would be able to use it on AoS and Warcry too. And GW wouldn't need to invest as much to complete factions like Vampires, or goblins.

That's why I think cross-compatibility could be determinant on the game longevity. Even if many players don't care about both settings.

[CommissarRotke]

Yeah I wonder how much of TOW is banking on players using their existing WHFB armies? It would take an entire factory unto itself to release several TOW armies at once. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial model release was only 2 factions (Empire vs Chaos as my guess if TOW is doing Magnus) and it took another couple years to push out the kits for elves and orcs and other beasties.

Edited April 22, 2022 by CommissarRotke

[EccentricCircle]

As I've said earlier in the thread, there are a ton of AoS units which could be used as is in TOW. I would be astonished if the refreshed vampires weren't designed with a view to half the army being something new for AoS, while the other half were classic Vampire Counts for TOW.
It doesn't really make sense to make two versions of say, blood knights, with minimal differences, when you can sell one kit to two player bases.

However, GW being GW, I do worry whether they will let me use the same specific models for both games. I can't see them saying "you can't use blood knights for TOW" but I can absolutely see them saying "you must buy two boxes of blood knights and base them differently, or paint them in different colour schemes if you want to use them for both games".

Thankfully, even if they do come up with stupid regulations like that, its a table top game and we're free to ignore them.

[Landohammer]

4 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

Yeah I wonder how much of TOW is banking on players using their existing WHFB armies? It would take an entire factory unto itself to release several TOW armies at once. I wouldn't be surprised if the initial release was only 2 factions (Empire vs Chaos as my guess if TOW is doing Magnus) and it took another couple years to push out the elves and orcs and other beasties.

I would keep an eye on how GW handles the Horus Heresy 2nd edition launch for a guide to how they will handle the mass update of many factions.

I can't imagine they would only provide rules for 2 chapters upon launch. Surely all armies would get a PDF to tie them over. I mean if I can't play my preferred chapter then I'm likely to hold off buying anything. But thats just me personally.

For models I imagine that many existing models can be retrofitted to function in old word armies. For example a skeleton, zombie, bloodletter, treelord, chaos warrior etc haven't really changed. So I don't see a reason whey they wouldn't have Day 1 rules to some extent. Even if their faction wasn't fully fleshed out yet.