The Rumour Thread

[EthanolMuffins]

Wonder how seraphon index is gonna work, since they only got 4 factions in 3rd: 2 constellations each for starborn and coalesced

 

Really hoping they keep the CPP system in 4th, the idea of summoning big magic space dinos in the opponents backline never fails to fill me with joy

[Nezzhil]

3 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Given harlequins just get strands of fate, I guess IJ and KB will all get a few generic killy battle traits and you'll have to take the formation to get more stealth bonuses for KB or charge bonuses for IJ? God I hope that changes for the BT if that's the case, unless our main battle traits are actually fun and flavourful

I am not worried about KB and IJ Battle traits because they were very little and lame, I really think that Index will improve the actual book. Seraphon is other history. Check SCE, they are almost like the actual book but better an even more flavourful. They can mantain the actual rules, improve them and change thinks like Big Waaagh rules and time Tricky Treats for something more flavourful and simple to play.

My point is the expectation of having a full end of edition book with an Index booklet, or even more complete than that.

[DinoJon]

3 minutes ago, EthanolMuffins said:

Wonder how seraphon index is gonna work, since they only got 4 factions in 3rd: 2 constellations each for starborn and coalesced

 

Really hoping they keep the CPP system in 4th, the idea of summoning big magic space dinos in the opponents backline never fails to fill me with joy

I have a feeling summoning will be greatly toned down. I don't think we'll see any Battle Trait benefits for summoning. 

[cofaxest]

10 minutes ago, EthanolMuffins said:

Wonder how seraphon index is gonna work, since they only got 4 factions in 3rd: 2 constellations each for starborn and coalesced

 

Really hoping they keep the CPP system in 4th, the idea of summoning big magic space dinos in the opponents backline never fails to fill me with joy

Heavy magic + summon with Slann
Shooting and movement with Skinks
Holding objectives and counterattack with Saurus
Melee hard hitting with Monster mash

[Nezzhil]

13 minutes ago, EthanolMuffins said:

Wonder how seraphon index is gonna work, since they only got 4 factions in 3rd: 2 constellations each for starborn and coalesced

 

Really hoping they keep the CPP system in 4th, the idea of summoning big magic space dinos in the opponents backline never fails to fill me with joy

Seraphon needs a revamps in their design because It is one of the hardest faction to balance and I am bored that all the editions happen the same. Maybe removing summoning and changing for return destroyed units is a way to balance. But the CPP is the same bad design as always, and a faction that requieres changes and fixes during all the editions is a design problem.

[Mutton]

25 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:

Seraphon needs a revamps in their design because It is one of the hardest faction to balance and I am bored that all the editions happen the same. Maybe removing summoning and changing for return destroyed units is a way to balance. But the CPP is the same bad design as always, and a faction that requieres changes and fixes during all the editions is a design problem.

They continue making the same mistake of thinking the only thing Slanns can be good at is tactically nuking the opponent with 40 NPE mortals a turn. We really don't need to design them that way.

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

not saying everyone needs to get along all the time for sure, but... GW shouldn't paint themselves into a one-note corner even if people expect a "particular flavor"; I think that constrains all of their games, and even if it's too late for 40k? AOS doesn't need to do that same, rote grimderp. A lot of us enjoy AOS exactly because it has a different tone than 40k.

I dunno, if they're alluding to human followers of the GHR, i think they can keep multiple races in COS. It would be amazing to see all kinds of weird cults from all of the gods of the Realms. Maybe that'll happen in Warcry, Underworlds, or a new Mordheim/Necromunda equivalent. I'll keep some hope since Whitefang has said things are going to get positively weird.

 

Well, it‘s up to them. I think Warhammer having a certain flavor is something that sets it apart from other fantasy IPs and it might be in their best interest to have a certain mood in AoS as well as people associate these concepts with all things Warhammer - I can see good aspects in either case if done well.

BUT I think it‘s really unfortunate to have CoS start as a mixed faction at first and then taking that - by then - defining and quite unique (in a larger TT wargame) characteristic away but I found the segmentation of various forces to be a stupid move as well (like ONLY slayers, ONLY ardboys, ONLY whatever as the base of a new faction).
 

I like variety, so naturally I‘d be all for mixed units in CoS‘ case but I understand the logistical problem with that in let‘s say basic troops. So they should just have new aelf and dwarf units in a new wave. Also, I liked the suggestion of having one of the crew members not being a human for example. But then you‘d either take away the lady or the black dude in that particular case, so someone is gonna be angry anyways. They really can‘t win! 😂 

[KingBrodd]

No Dawnbringers Chronicles today. My poor Lore addicted heart.

[Luperci]

2 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I like variety, so naturally I‘d be all for mixed units in CoS‘ case but I understand the logistical problem with that in let‘s say basic troops. So they should just have new aelf and dwarf units in a new wave. Also, I liked the suggestion of having one of the crew members not being a human for example. But then you‘d either take away the lady or the black dude in that particular case, so someone is gonna be angry anyways. They really can‘t win! 😂 

Really :// this forum is not the place to discuss whether you think inclusion and diversity belongs in the setting so please don't make jabs at people who do.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, DinoJon said:

So for split books like Orruk Warclans and (selfishly) Seraphon do we expect them to be treated as 2 seperate armies living in a singular tome? 

Question would be can we expect specific Battle Traits for Ironjawz and Kruleboyz as well as Starborne and Coalesced? I wouldn't be surprised for them to only have 4 battle formations between the two. 

I would say no. There's others booms with even more options, imo. I think they would stick to 4.

[MitGas]

5 minutes ago, Luperci said:

Really :// this forum is not the place to discuss whether you think inclusion and diversity belongs in the setting so please don't make jabs at people who do.

I‘m not discussing that anyways, so don‘t try to twist it into something it isn‘t. We‘re talking about aelfs/dwarfs and mainly how it‘s difficult to make that reality when you have to keep in mind the logistics of it - a unit consisting of three races is very difficult as the unit would be more akin to let‘s say a WarCry unit than your typical kit. Parts wouldn‘t be interchangeable, the minis look more like clones than if you could mix them freely as each base fits all heads etc. then when you add those races in places where they would fit well, you‘d take away something else. I‘m not complaining that there is or isn‘t something in CoS, it‘s just damn near impossible to make everyone happy. That‘s the reality of it unless they being out various kits for the same unit (one dwarf, one aelf, one human) and that‘s most likely not feasible business-wise. 
 

I lament that CoS isn‘t as mixed as it originally was envisioned but I understand the problem why it isn‘t. Perhaps new units consisting solely of aelfs/dwarfs is the only good option. Or make WarCry etc. variants of units so that more non-humans etc. can be in there. But it‘s difficult for them to make everyone happy. I just packaged the reality in a snide remark, don‘t kill the messenger. 🫶

[Vasshpit]

@Lupercal I actually take prde in being part of this awesome community because most of the time we can discuss topics with compassion, intelligence, reflection,  and just overall manners and it not devolve into nastiness. 

Me ➡️🤜💥🤛⬅️ you all. ✊️

[Snorri Nelriksson]

31 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

No Dawnbringers Chronicles today. My poor Lore addicted heart.

Was'nt mentioned this week we should had a skaven lore article though?
Maybe tomorrow?

[Acrozatarim]

1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:

Seraphon needs a revamps in their design because It is one of the hardest faction to balance and I am bored that all the editions happen the same. Maybe removing summoning and changing for return destroyed units is a way to balance. But the CPP is the same bad design as always, and a faction that requieres changes and fixes during all the editions is a design problem.

I do hope that, in general, summoning is scaled back a bit this edition.

It's a pain playing a monogod Chaos faction and having to accept the inevitability that a bunch of your faction's weighting for its power and playability is going to be in summoning daemons when you're more interested in the mortal side of them.

[CommissarRotke]

36 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I‘m not discussing that anyways, so don‘t try to twist it into something it isn‘t.

I mean you're still making the joke about it, so you're still bringing it up..? I honestly like discussing logistics and army themes with you until I get to the part where it seems you have to throw in these weird jabs. The black guy could be a black dwarf. the lady could be a lady dwarf. both things people have been asking for... and no one would "be angry anyways."

58 minutes ago, MitGas said:

BUT I think it‘s really unfortunate to have CoS start as a mixed faction at first and then taking that - by then - defining and quite unique (in a larger TT wargame) characteristic away but I found the segmentation of various forces to be a stupid move as well (like ONLY slayers, ONLY ardboys, ONLY whatever as the base of a new faction).
 

I like variety, so naturally I‘d be all for mixed units in CoS‘ case but I understand the logistical problem with that in let‘s say basic troops. So they should just have new aelf and dwarf units in a new wave. Also, I liked the suggestion of having one of the crew members not being a human for example.

like I agree with all of this! we're having a great convo about design practices in GW! and then... it gets weird because you hurt your point with a 'joke' about things that are and should be non-issues.

[Sception]

I liked CoS as a mixed fantasy race faction simply because you /never/ see that anywhere else.  Every other fantasy game and series and whatever always has the dwarves off in dwarf society, elves in elf society, humans in human society, orcs in orc society.  Where they're mixed, it's always one subjugating another and mostly segregated regardless (see elves in dragon age).  Sometimes the dwarves/elves/whatever have novel and interesting societies, usually it's the expected cliches.  Either way though, you'll have a mix of fantasy races in the protagonist lineup or player party, but in the world everything stays separate.

Cities in AoS was a very rare exception, with modern Azyrite society born from refugees of all the realms fleeing chaos, collectively turning to sigmar to protect them as their own gods fell to Archaon or were driven into hiding.  What kind of society does that produce?  How do people live and work together when their neighbors might have lifetimes far shorter or many times longer than their own?  Are all the captains and guild leaders elves out of seniority alone?  Or are retirement ages mandatory, with humans living out their last days with their family while dwarves are obligated to take up a second or third career and elves a seventh or eighth? How common are cross-species relationships, do they increase or strain social cohesion, and do they ever produce offspring?  I mean, even if not naturally, there are gods are right there, physically present in Azyr, theoretically you can go to their house, knock on their door, and petition for a miraculous exception.  Speaking of, Sigmar and Grungni are there, but do the former followers of other gods regret their abandoned faiths, or resent the gods that failed or abandoned them?  We know the humans, elves, and dwarves, but are there other, rarer, stranger folk who are also part of Azyrite society?  halflings, gnomes, greenskins, faries, sylvaneth?  undead, even?  Did no vampires or wights escape to Azyr and, with Nagash's apparent demise, pledge themselves to Sigmar?  We know Sigmar's stolen the souls of some undead to forge them into stormcast, were none freely offered?  And if there are any Sigmarite undead in Azyr, how have things changed for them in the modern age with Nagash back, but now as Sigmar's enemy?

I'm not saying these kinds of stories are ~more~ interesting than those you could tell with just humans in azyr, just dwarves in their sky cities, just treelves in their forests.  But they are different stories, and ones you just don't get in most settings.

I'll live with overwhelmingly or entirely human cities of sigmar, I don't think it'll ruin the game or setting or anything, I don't think it reflects a negative worldview by the creators or whatever.  Heck, I don't even play the faction.  But I liked what the previous version did for the game and the setting, and even with fantastic new models I can't help but feel the new version is a bit dull by comparison.

[ScionOfOssia]

4 minutes ago, Sception said:

do they ever produce offspring?

The answer to this, in case anyone is curious, is “Yes, at least with Khainite Aelves and Ogors”. 

[MitGas]

18 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I mean you're still making the joke about it, so you're still bringing it up..? I honestly like discussing logistics and army themes with you until I get to the part where it seems you have to throw in these weird jabs. The black guy could be a black dwarf. the lady could be a lady dwarf. both things people have been asking for... and no one would "be angry anyways."

like I agree with all of this! we're having a great convo about design practices in GW! and then... it gets weird because you hurt your point with a 'joke' about things that are and should be non-issues.

I'm making a joke cause laughing about it is better than the alternative, I'm not hurting my point at all IMO but sorry if it offended you - they can't include everything, it's pretty much impossible if you take the logistics into account and there will be drawbacks (e.g. other variants would get excluded).

To use another example that doesn't include sensitive RL themes in the same way as they're a bit more removed from real people: Let's say I hope to see more varied Kairic Acolytes (and it was their time to get a new kit). Disregarding the background of them using spells to look like they do - they shouldn't just all be buff dudes, I want some buff gals in there (like the single one we got with Underworlds, a shame we only got a single one), fat ones too, maybe some with hair, all bald and masked is boring after all, maybe even some Tzaangors that are also Kairic Acolytes. Or dwarfs. Or whatever else you think of, it doesn't matter outside of the fact that the minis will start to look very distinct - how is GW going to create a decent kit that doesn't look like an army of the same couple of clones when you field let's say 60 of them and the differences in body dimensions forces them to break up the kits into various groups?

The Tzaangor Acolytes and Dwarf Acolytes would likely look pretty similar as the similarities gets more pronounced once they are more "identifiable". Same for the other "subgroups". And Kairic Acolytes are an easy example too as they all wear similar masks and have no distinct faces unlike CoS units.

This however is basically what some in here hope for. All I'm saying is if you add this or that you will unfortunately lose something else. Doesn't matter if it's this particular model or another, but it's ultimately a trade-off as they don't have the resources to do everything. 

I hope you get what you want, I truly do, I have no skin in the game no matter what you think and I'm not out there to offend you in this discussion, I'm just playing devil's advocate but it's simply hella difficult to make it happen in a way that everyone gets what they want - that's what I'm saying. I'm all for GW adding aelf and dwarf units and put black or lady dwarfs in there (and I'd like to see more clearly Asian-looking (in the features) minis personally as well, I feel like they get overlooked), why not - I think Fyreslayers have those by now - so they are already established "in-universe".

What I'd find much better is to find an overall consensus and keep asking for that - e.g. if they got another gun crew or steam tank that they make the minis in there more varied or that they add units of other races than just humans and repeat that like a mantra.

I figure that people from GW read these boards and might like an idea for a unit in there. Why do you think I go on about heavyily-armored Tzeentchian Sorcerer-Warriors all the time? I do it in hopes of DoT getting their own kind o Chosen, maybe someone working at GW comes across my suggestion and think it's cool. But if we ask for "everything", it's kinda impossible for them to do it and they won't even bother. 

[Sception]

Just now, ScionOfOssia said:

The answer to this, in case anyone is curious, is “Yes, at least with Khainite Aelves and Ogors”. 

really?  That's AoS canon?  There are half aelves, and half ogors?  See that's a cool concept.  That's the kind of thing I'd like to see in game and on the table, even if it's rare enough to be reserved for named characters.

[Son Of Morghur]

On 4/9/2024 at 9:52 PM, Whitefang said:

but there is always uncertainty for weird things.

On 4/9/2024 at 10:36 PM, Whitefang said:

Oh there is going to be plenty.

Something completely a challenge to logic.

Oh Great Sphinx @Whitefang tell us more about these weird things.

Is our father of corruption and master of skulls rewarding you with visions?

Is it the feathered father of change whispering through the pillows, or is it something from below - or inside the walls - gnawing it's way through the veil of reality?

Is it of chaotic nature? Or may it be something else entirely?

Did the father of earthquakes reunite with his children?

Or are chitinous mandibles slowly nibbling open their silken cocoons?

 

Edited April 12 by Son Of Morghur

[MitGas]

8 minutes ago, Sception said:

I liked CoS as a mixed fantasy race faction simply because you /never/ see that anywhere else.  Every other fantasy game and series and whatever always has the dwarves off in dwarf society, elves in elf society, humans in human society, orcs in orc society.  Where they're mixed, it's always one subjugating another and mostly segregated regardless (see elves in dragon age).  Sometimes the dwarves/elves/whatever have novel and interesting societies, usually it's the expected cliches.  Either way though, you'll have a mix of fantasy races in the protagonist lineup or player party, but in the world everything stays separate.

Cities in AoS was a very rare exception, with modern Azyrite society born from refugees of all the realms fleeing chaos, collectively turning to sigmar to protect them as their own gods fell to Archaon or were driven into hiding.  What kind of society does that produce?  How do people live and work together when their neighbors might have lifetimes far shorter or many times longer than their own?  Are all the captains and guild leaders elves out of seniority alone?  Or are retirement ages mandatory, with humans living out their last days with their family while dwarves are obligated to take up a second or third career and elves a seventh or eighth? How common are cross-species relationships, do they increase or strain social cohesion, and do they ever produce offspring?  I mean, even if not naturally, there are gods are right there, physically present in Azyr, theoretically you can go to their house, knock on their door, and petition for a miraculous exception.  Speaking of, Sigmar and Grungni are there, but do the former followers of other gods regret their abandoned faiths, or resent the gods that failed or abandoned them?  We know the humans, elves, and dwarves, but are there other, rarer, stranger folk who are also part of Azyrite society?  halflings, gnomes, greenskins, faries, sylvaneth?  undead, even?  Did no vampires or wights escape to Azyr and, with Nagash's apparent demise, pledge themselves to Sigmar?  We know Sigmar's stolen the souls of some undead to forge them into stormcast, were none freely offered?  And if there are any Sigmarite undead in Azyr, how have things changed for them in the modern age with Nagash back, but now as Sigmar's enemy?

I'm not saying these kinds of stories are ~more~ interesting than those you could tell with just humans in azyr, just dwarves in their sky cities, just treelves in their forests.  But they are different stories, and ones you just don't get in most settings.

I'll live with overwhelmingly or entirely human cities of sigmar, I don't think it'll ruin the game or setting or anything, I don't think it reflects a negative worldview by the creators or whatever.  Heck, I don't even play the faction.  But I liked what the previous version did for the game and the setting, and even with fantastic new models I can't help but feel the new version is a bit dull by comparison.

Well, DnD has lots of very diverse regions in the sense of elves, humans etc. living door to door. But in a TT game it's definitely a notable exception.

Ironically enough, the first TT force that had very racially varied units is the Imperium in 40k, despite being the most xenophobic bunch out there with Ogryns, Ratlings and the like (they justified it with these being meta-humans, apparently that's good enough, despite burning you at the stake if you got a 6th digit for fear of it being a Chaos mutation....lulz).

I wanted to see CoS in a similar vein, ideally even more intermingled but like I've written in waaay too long posts now, it's hella difficult to make it work. So maybe more interesting WarCry stuff and non-human units could be a decent compromise...

[Ejecutor]

2 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

No Dawnbringers Chronicles today. My poor Lore addicted heart.

Maybe there's just one left (with a bit of a spoiler) and they are going to put it on hold until a couple or two with the release of the book?

[EntMan]

1 minute ago, MitGas said:

Ironically enough, the first TT force that had very racially varied units is the Imperium in 40k, despite being the most xenophobic bunch out there with Ogryns, Ratlings and the like (they justified it with these being meta-humans, apparently that's good enough, despite burning you at the stake if you got a 6th digit for fear of it being a Chaos mutation....lulz).

And also squats and beastmen in the early days.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

I‘m not discussing that anyways, so don‘t try to twist it into something it isn‘t. We‘re talking about aelfs/dwarfs and mainly how it‘s difficult to make that reality when you have to keep in mind the logistics of it - a unit consisting of three races is very difficult as the unit would be more akin to let‘s say a WarCry unit than your typical kit. Parts wouldn‘t be interchangeable, the minis look more like clones than if you could mix them freely as each base fits all heads etc. then when you add those races in places where they would fit well, you‘d take away something else. I‘m not complaining that there is or isn‘t something in CoS, it‘s just damn near impossible to make everyone happy. That‘s the reality of it unless they being out various kits for the same unit (one dwarf, one aelf, one human) and that‘s most likely not feasible business-wise. 
 

I lament that CoS isn‘t as mixed as it originally was envisioned but I understand the problem why it isn‘t. Perhaps new units consisting solely of aelfs/dwarfs is the only good option. Or make WarCry etc. variants of units so that more non-humans etc. can be in there. But it‘s difficult for them to make everyone happy. I just packaged the reality in a snide remark, don‘t kill the messenger. 🫶

The only way to make everyone happy would be having that many kits for each race that you could end kitbashing one mini into another unit without it looking too weird.

[Ejecutor]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

Me ➡️🤜💥🤛⬅️ you all. ✊️

Are you going to hit us? 🤔