The Rumour Thread

[KingBrodd]

8 hours ago, Ogregut said:

For Underworlds, a new Fyreslayer warband would be cool as season 1 was the last time we saw them. 

Chaos dwarves, if just to see how they AoSify them.

A different Skaven clan would be awesome, Moulder would be my choice. A fleshshaper lookng for new subjects to experiment on. 

A Sigmarite priest and followers, exiles from a dawnbringer crusade for being to zealous now come to the Gnalwood looking to bring sigmars light. 

A wargor and his band of mutants looking to for the heart of Ghur to sacrifice at the great herdstone. 

A human tribe who worship Kragnos, searching for worthy foes to be seen worthy by their god. 

Bitter and twisted Dryads and spite revnents who heed drycha call look to rid the Gnalwood of all intruders. 

An ogor butcher looking for rare and tasty ingredients. 

A dwarf privateer and crew looking for exotic animals for the captains private zoo. 

We need a new Ogor Butcher so badly. The current ones are the ugliest minis GW produces. They were ugly at release and worse now.

[Snarff]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, Bugmansson, Drekki and the Codewright have better heads than others.

It seems most current dwarves (Fyreslayers, Hammerers, Longbeards) were sculpted with the facial hair already on. GW can sculpt emotions, but it's a lot easier if you do that first, and then add facial hair.

 

I do very much prefer the new head proportions though, they look a lot more sleek. The oversized heads really detracted from the rest of the model and really did not match the art.

[EntMan]

32 minutes ago, Snarff said:

I do very much prefer the new head proportions though, they look a lot more sleek. The oversized heads really detracted from the rest of the model and really did not match the art.

They also mean I can feel less bad about not even trying to paint pupils on eyes... 👀

[Mordeus]

1 hour ago, Snarff said:

I do very much prefer the new head proportions though, they look a lot more sleek. The oversized heads really detracted from the rest of the model and really did not match the art.

I agree that sometimes it was too big and a different dwarf archetype than the one in illustrations. I feel an im between would be the best which they are doing now in the newest dwarf minis.   

[darkdark25]

11 hours ago, Ogregut said:

A human tribe who worship Kragnos, searching for worthy foes to be seen worthy by their god.

In regards to this I would prefer the Kurnoth worshipping Humans that have been cropping up in the recent Dawnbringers BL stories.

[ArcLight]

9 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Thomas the pain engine!

Thomas the Spank Engine surely!

[Baron Klatz]

Kragnos worshipping dragon hunters would be cool as heck with all the anti-dragon prayers he can bless in Soulbound.

Like a while ago this big Bloodborne Draconith conversions got posted-

-and just someone saying this bit as a joke:

Kragnos: "Dragons all over the shop..."

Had my mind wheeling with possibilities of both Kruleboyz/orruk & human Kragnos followers going through the Realms hunting dragons for both good and bad reasons(whether they’re warped eldritch horrors or peaceful good guys that rather start a conversation than fight) that can make all kinds of grey areas like a Boltboy unwittingly saving a Ulgu city(made me hurt wishing so hard for a videogame rpg with those possibilities xD) 

On lore for humans worshipping Gorkamorka there was parts for that in the Age of Myth, working alongside Order as a monster hunting god got him Ghurian followers with AoS2 expanding it by having Orruk scholars working alongside human scholars in that era as well for more cross-worshipper ideas before the Age of Chaos made the Waaagh hit the fan.

But as said, in the end the setting is infinitely open enough for any idea and we know humans will worship anything from god-Beasts(including a god pigeon from Shyish that got respect), Seraphon Temple-ships to wheels(as per the new dawner lore) and will allow even Gargants as their 12 Sigmarite saints.

Compare that to what we already have with duardin worshiping Alarielle, Marauders worshipping the Great Horned Rat(with rats painted on their shields), Ogor smiths worshipping Grungni, Stormcast Vindicators worshipping sentient swords and Aqshyian Flesh-Eaters worshipping the Realm of Light itself as beautiful fire and there’s not really a cap on what’s possible in faith.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[Clan's Cynic]

Seraphon fluff article, with some new art. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[DinoJon]

The new art and lore is so great. I do wish they talked a little bit more about how Seraphon are handling the current events like the crash of the Eye of Chotec or whats going on in Chamon after the Thunderlizards decimated a majority of their forces. 

I do like that apparently there is a council of Draconiths and Slann, would love to be a fly in that room. I also like that they once again confirmed that Starborne are living things from spawning pools. 

I can't wait to get into the book and read the fluff and see what else has changed and progressed! 

[Baz]

1 hour ago, darkdark25 said:

In regards to this I would prefer the Kurnoth worshipping Humans that have been cropping up in the recent Dawnbringers BL stories.

Oh, any information on this and which stories? 

[CommissarRotke]

6 minutes ago, DinoJon said:

a fly in that room

With giant frogs?????

[The Lost Sigmarite]

45 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Had my mind wheeling with possibilities of both Kruleboyz/orruk & human Kragnos followers going through the Realms hunting dragons for both good and bad reasons

That sounds like a cool concept that could be exploited in Black Library fiction, Soulbound or Warcry. 

39 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Seraphon fluff article, with some art. 

The art looks phenomenal, not gonna lie, but the fluff leaves me desiring more. I like the little snippets of how the other races view the Lizards, but that's not a lot about actual Era of the Beast lore. New dinosaurs, some Saurus going feral and Slaan debates about incarnates, and that's it ? I hope there's more in the BT and that they don't want to spoil all the lore inside now, because that's not a lot. What of the temple ship that crashed in the Gnarlwood ?

45 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

But as said, in the end the setting is infinitely open enough for any idea and we know humans will worship anything from god-Beasts(including a god pigeon from Shyish that got respect), Seraphon Temple-ships to wheels(as per the new dawner lore) and will allow even Gargants as their 12 Sigmarite saints.

Compare that to what we already have with duardin worshiping Alarielle, Marauders worshipping the Great Horned Rat(with rats painted on their shields), Ogor smiths worshipping Grungni, Stormcast Vindicators worshipping sentient swords and Aqshyian Flesh-Eaters worshipping the Realm of Light itself as beautiful fire and there’s not really a cap on what’s possible in faith.

I mean, we've already seen Chaos Elves and Ogres, human cultists of Hashut, Beastmen that follow Archaon... That's what's great about AoS. The possibilities are near limitless. 

Orruk scholars though ? That's weird. Only fing worth learnin' is how to give a good krumpin' !

Edited April 21, 2023 by The Lost Sigmarite

[Vasshpit]

This is a very interesting part of today's lore article...

 

"All this bestial energy has its downsides. At least one maddened cohort of Saurus Warriors turned on their skink allies with bloody results, a tragedy which troubles their slann masters. "

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Seraphon fluff article, with some new art. 

Man they nailed the awesome factor! 🤩 

Love the one with them defending a Dawner settlement in the background, always good to see them having concerns of other races on their analytical minds rather than being isolationist again.

The Kroxes are ace too. Love the teeth become more visible the closer they get.(also can’t help but see more Draconith similarities when their heads are sideways like that)

43 minutes ago, DinoJon said:

I also like that they once again confirmed that Starborne are living things from spawning pools. 

I’m just glad they’re balancing it out more this time by emphasizing the etherealness and unique nature of their celestial bodies.

Way too many people clung to that “fundamentally flesh and blood” thing last time and said that disqualified them from being star-daemons despite many powerful chaos artifacts using daemon blood/ichor.(the fallback argument is the warscrolls losing the daemon keyword but Valkia the daemon princess just got updated and still lacks a daemon keyword. Those stopped being lore-focused when they got rid of the extra narrative stuff like celestial keywords and had the meta keywords absorb the lesser ones as stuff like Daemon made them vulnerable to anti-chaos abilities)

It’s a good balance now with even the Slann memories playing a role as how they resurrect, slain Coalesced starting over as Starborne again when brought back to life by a Slann remembering them.

55 minutes ago, DinoJon said:

or whats going on in Chamon after the Thunderlizards decimated a majority of their forces. 

Thunderlizards deserve more focus in general beyond the monster spam meme. A constellation that settles Realm-edges is worth a supplement on it’s own. Seeing stuff like golden temple cities having to constantly reconfigure themselves like a golden puzzle box on Ghyran’s edge of endless growths and births or a Chamon ziggurat fight off the mechanical realm from assimilating it into it’s clockwork designs while their dinos battle manifesting metallic beasts & clockwork hounds would be grand to say the least.

6 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

This is a very interesting part of today's lore article...

 

"All this bestial energy has its downsides. At least one maddened cohort of Saurus Warriors turned on their skink allies with bloody results, a tragedy which troubles their slann masters. "

We have seen a bit of the feral troubles before. The first Ghur cosmic waves Kragnos unleashed by being free caused nearby Temple-ships in orbit to crash as their pilots Coalesced on the spot and began a bloody rampage through the rest of the crews.

But this on top of stuff like the Skinks also seeing Incarnates as possible Old One entities could make some fun religious schisms. Kragnos’ power causing quakes and fissures in more than just lands but societies.

Also love the Draconith being heavily involved. Hopefully that Covenant Chamber will have something to do with fleshing out the non-humanoid sapient races in the Stormcast ranks so they can continue to grow on their own like that.

51 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Orruk scholars though ? That's weird. Only fing worth learnin' is how to give a good krumpin' !

Kruleboyz represent the worst ways that knowledge can go. 
 

Their swampcaller shamans are practically cyber-bullies of the Astromatrix in calling up and berating spirits into doing stuff for them and the toxic trololol chat DM’s they send out to others:

”"I sense an intruder in the geomantic web. A presence, red-eyed, peering through mist. It’s speaking to me. It’s saying… some very crass things about my mother, which I shall not repeat." — Lorille Peakseer, Alarith Stonemage”

[darkdark25]

59 minutes ago, Baz said:

Oh, any information on this and which stories? 

In one of the new short stories, Grimnirsson, the titular dwarf is friends with the daughter of a chieftain of a Celtic styled people and one of her lines of exasperation towards the dwarf mentions Kurnoth

[Fellman]

Lots of talk in the new article about incarnates

Similarly, the rise of the incarnates has prompted many questions – great councils of Draconith and slann argue over whether these creatures are natural manifestations of the Astromatrix, or aberrations that could disrupt the Great Plan.

The venerable Lord Kroak has declared that no tool can be squandered in pursuit of the Old Ones’ will – but some slann still take it upon themselves to hunt down those incarnates that they regard as tainted. Stories persist among the skink population that incarnates have been witnessed bearing the totemic forms of Chotec, Sotek, Itzl, Tepoc, and more – dangerous rumours that the priesthood has been quick to clamp down on.

[Public Universal Duardin]

On 4/20/2023 at 8:36 PM, Twisted Firaun said:

Normally I'd spam a "LONG LOST NEHEKHARA!!!" comment, but as we've recently seen it looks like my tomb will be relatively spruced up soon. Now is the time for people such as @Public Universal Duardin, @Clan's Cynic, @Beliman, and @Snorri Nelriksson, who have patiently sat on the sides and grumbled relatively quietly as elgi, umgi, grobi and other wazzocks have gotten massive updates. Give us new dwarfs/duardin GW, even if they're corrupted. 

Luckily for me, the new Chaos Dwarf dlc for Total War Warhammer is great and eases that eternal yearning for Hashut's dark embrace.

I wouldn't, however, say no to Chorfs/Chuardin in TOW/AoS 😝

[KriticalKhan]

4 hours ago, DinoJon said:

I also like that they once again confirmed that Starborne are living things from spawning pools.

Call me petty (because I am), but this is the one thing about AoS 1e retcons I will never forgive.

Seraphon as daemons of order returned from their dead world to enact vengeance on the beings who destroyed it is the coolest thing they could have done to explain them being in AoS. I get that people wanted the fleshy lizards back, and I did miss that aspect of their lore, and GW found a pretty neat compromise--some of the Seraphon started getting physical bodies again, and the spawning pools were creating new, "real" lizards.

You get both sides of the lore in one easy development that doesn't even feel like a retcon. Literally the best of both worlds.

But wait.

"The starborne aren't daemons either and they're totally flesh and blood and just ignore the last four years of lore pls we changed it back don't be angry pls pls pls"

If you don't like the daemon angle, I get it. It's different and not everyone has to like it, and it's all personal taste anyway. But GW introduced another way to fluff them that appeases both groups and IN THE SAME BREATH retconned away the original AoS lore... when they had already introduced the fix people were asking for.

Now we have two different flavors of Seraphon, they're both still flesh-and-blood and born out of spawning pools, the memory-daemon angle is completely gone, and the only actual difference is that starborne... are kinda shiny? They glow sometimes? If they were going so far in changing what the starborne are, then why bother making any kind of distinction?

It's like a parent making macaroni for dinner, but one of the kids wanted a hamburger, so they took the macaroni they'd already made, filled it with pickles, put it on a bun... and then made a hamburger for the other kid, too.

I do not understand.

[CommissarRotke]

52 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

Seraphon as daemons of order returned from their dead world to enact vengeance on the beings who destroyed it is the coolest thing they could have done to explain them being in AoS. I get that people wanted the fleshy lizards back, and I did miss that aspect of their lore, and GW found a pretty neat compromise--some of the Seraphon started getting physical bodies again, and the spawning pools were creating new, "real" lizards.

have to agree completely here, and tbh is a big reason why I'll probably grab an older Seraphon book. the idea that Seraphon were now Order-daemons was so intriguing I ended up spending another four hours finally, actually looking into AOS lore. real, real shame they didn't keep the fully-starborne angle.

Edited April 21, 2023 by CommissarRotke

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, KriticalKhan said:

Now we have two different flavors of Seraphon, they're both still flesh-and-blood and born out of spawning pools, the memory-daemon angle is completely gone, and the only actual difference is that starborne... are kinda shiny? They glow sometimes? If they were going so far in changing what the starborne are, then why bother making any kind of distinction?

They’re not memory-daemons but all the star-daemon stuff from AoS1 is still true.

They don’t have physicality to interact with reality until the Slann manifest body suits for them to inhabit.(same as daemons needing a anchor to reality or they fade away too)

When wounded their Azyr physiology bursts out of the “bodysuit” as starlight that banishes daemons and burns undead.

When resurrected by Slann memories(Kroak does this in Broken Realms and it’s expanded further in “Stars and Scales”) the Seraphon start over as Starborne ethereal beings again.

All the AoS1 stuff is still there but interpreted a bit differently as a big mystery revealed now.

Guy did a great write-up how it’s not really a Retcon back in 2018 and predicted the reveal in 2020.

It’s why I appreciate the new Starborne rules that they’re more cosmically enhanced and can heal their ethereal bodies easier as their rules are a fusion of Tzeentch + NightHaunt.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:

All the AoS1 stuff is still there but interpreted a bit differently as a big mystery revealed now.

Guy did a great write-up how it’s not really a Retcon back in 2018 and predicted the reveal in 2020.

hmm the white dwarf image he links kinda sounds more like a retcon than his evidence in the post though? "start as creatures of memory, celestial energy, and magic." Obviously GW could still handwave it and say the Spawning Pools created them like this anyway, but it feels different enough than the new explanation of "the starborne were actually just born with/through Azyr magic"

[Grimrock]

4 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Luckily for me, the new Chaos Dwarf dlc for Total War Warhammer is great and eases that eternal yearning for Hashut's dark embrace.

I wouldn't, however, say no to Chorfs/Chuardin in TOW/AoS 😝

I gotta be honest, I never really liked much of the old Chorf line from fantasy. The Legion of Azgorh stuff wasn't too bad, but still pretty clunky and weird. Seeing them modernized in total war and playing through a campaign however has made me do a complete 180 on them. I absolutely love what CA did with the models and I think it'd be amazing if they got some sort of dual release for TOW and AoS. Certainly wouldn't be impossible, they'd just have to ship them with both square and round bases, and with all the little hints and nods they're doing lately I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was their plan.

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

Obviously GW could still handwave it and say the Spawning Pools created them like this anyway

The spawning pools Are creating them like that.

When Dracothion revived the Seraphon those suckers got flooded with Azyr magic so Starborne are basically born in pools of pure magic stardust, that’s why they come out as ethereal daemon-like creatures.

“At the beginning of the Age of Sigmar, many who have encountered Seraphon presumed them to be manifestations of Azyr, not entirely dissimilar to the Stormcast Eternals. However, the truth is somewhat more complex. The Seraphon are fundamentally creatures of flesh and blood, albeit with celestial magic glimmering in their veins. The first of their kind found themselves in the uppermost reaches of Azyr within their ziggurat-ships, where their spawning pools became permeated by starlit magic. Before long, the Seraphon that emerged from within, and even those dwelling within the ships themselves, became more akin to heavenly beings than living creatures as most mortals would understand them”

And then later they made “creatures of memory” part still viable as they showed that’s part of the resurrection process* so ethereal creatures born of celestial energy, magic and memory can be completely accurate.(I think the “flesh and blood” part is what throws people off as it makes you think actual blood instead of like Stormcast lightning blood or the other weird eldritch biologies in the Realms)

*With Lord Kroak there’s actually a sad case he’s had to do this dozens of times with his favorite skink Starpriest who’s an old friend. But other skinks note every time he’s remembered back small details are changed like feather colors & scale patterns as Kroak slowly forgets his old friend.

(edit: on that thought it makes an interesting connection to Stormcast Eternals also suffering memory problems through Azyr resurrection. Some symbolism of a brilliant star finally blinking out amidst a cold void as they become apart of it)

Edited April 21, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[Nighthaunt Noob]

Bit off topic but I noticed GW didn't even directly share the painting videos for Seraphon thru Facebook. Guessing they don't want to post them anywhere where they can be called out for the fact that they no longer show the face of the painters.

[Chikout]

I just finished watching this video by Louise.

 

It's a great video that I recommend watching but there's one thing that stood out as being relevant. She said that studio staff are no longer allowed to attend Warhammer Fest. 

This made me more than a little angry. The event is next week. It's supposed to be the biggest celebration of the hobby but the designers, painters artists and writers who actually make the things we love aren't allowed to be there?!!? What idiocy. 

With 'only hands', interviews that only use first names, no feedback at golden demon and now this, gw is taking deliberate steps to undo the things that helped to turn the company around in the first place. 

Meeting Jes Goodwin at games day in the 90s was absolutely a highlight for me and I definitely bought more miniatures if I knew they were designed by him. It was undeniably an inspirational experience. 

Imagine being a young painter who loves Warhammer, loves interacting with other players and going to events. Working for the studio should be the dream job. But now if you work in that job you get no credit, no chance to display your enthusiasm in videos , no chance to meet customers and share your love of the hobby. Who's going to want that job?  

I really hope  gw see the error of their ways and reverse of all these policies.