The Rumour Thread

[Neverchosen]

2 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Could also be them finally covering the End Times part of their adventure again and connecting them to the Realmslayer audio put to paper.

Or hilariously the red herring take and it’s the Ironbreaker and a Karak stuck in stasis and were transported to the Realms. Or just Dispossessed shenanigans in general.

Though the salt from Felix showing up as an Hammer of Anvilgard  stormcast(reforged dead that talk in archaic languages) would be lovely.

 

I am still hoping that Gotrek meets Felix in Shyish and wrests his friend's soul from Nagash. Then Sigmar and Grungni inform Gotrek that in the reforging there are things and maybe even people that Felix Might forget, and Gotrek has to wish his friend an emotional goodbye. 

[Captaniser]

I kinda hope they don't bring Felix back in AoS, one of the major themes in Gotrek's new adventures is to let go and make peace with what is. 

Also i don't want more characters from WHFB to show up. We still know Malerion and Tyrion are around, just not a part of the narrative yet, but i feel like the setting will just be anchored too heavily to it's past if the only characters in it are those from ages past. Look at what is happening with 40k, every rumor is about which primarch/30k character will return next, which older character will get a remake next and yadayadayada. 

It makes the settings feel smaller than what they are, newer characters being ignored or looked at with disdain by the fanbase. New narratives with new relations and dynamics to play around with is what i want, sure the occasional old face is a welcome surprise, but i am afraid that GW will just milk the character nostalgia to the point where other narratives will ignored. It's part of the reason i don't engage with 40k anymore to any real extent, it's just turning into a type of soap opera where the same 10 characters interact with eachother and ignores the wider universe. 

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

Man I just wish Wild Riders could get the Sylvaneth keyword.

[Baron Klatz]

Honestly I think we’re pretty safe from that. Some people say the bring backs are inconsistent but they do follow a pattern 

Chaos: anyone can come back because Chaos won and they went into the Chaos Realm to plague new worlds. Though it isn’t a guarantee as Chaos is still very fickle.

Death: most can return as long as they have a connection to Nagash who can drag their souls back or for his closer vampire followers he can regrow from his ribs.(though after a number caused him trouble to outright betrayal he put a hard cap on that)

Order: godly intervention like the aelves being siphoned from captured Slaanesh’s gullet, Grimnir sending Gotrek through that portal and otherwise they need a magical connection with the Realms for their souls to be drawn there like Gelt’s, his Fire college predecessors and the Tsarina reincarnating in Realmgate Wars as a ursa priestess in Ghur.

Destruction: they lack all of the above so are pretty much all new characters with the best they can do is Skarsnik’s magical nature helping him reincarnate into the meteor that orbits Da Bad Moon.

So unless that person has a god or magic connection they don’t really get drawn towards the Realms. Felix had no magic so at best it would be a distant wisp or something minor like that which would probably play out as Neverchosen said.

Speaking of new characters apparently the ork rockstar is semi-canon to the Mortal Realms too which is a big surprise to me.

His order even comes with Battleplans for use in AoS as you battle around his concert. 

Reddit with all the music references in the comic. Can’t wait for more of these.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ageofsigmar/comments/zakh7d/can_you_find_all_gags_and_references/

 

[Grimrock]

2 hours ago, Captaniser said:

I kinda hope they don't bring Felix back in AoS, one of the major themes in Gotrek's new adventures is to let go and make peace with what is. 

Also i don't want more characters from WHFB to show up. We still know Malerion and Tyrion are around, just not a part of the narrative yet, but i feel like the setting will just be anchored too heavily to it's past if the only characters in it are those from ages past. Look at what is happening with 40k, every rumor is about which primarch/30k character will return next, which older character will get a remake next and yadayadayada. 

It makes the settings feel smaller than what they are, newer characters being ignored or looked at with disdain by the fanbase. New narratives with new relations and dynamics to play around with is what i want, sure the occasional old face is a welcome surprise, but i am afraid that GW will just milk the character nostalgia to the point where other narratives will ignored. It's part of the reason i don't engage with 40k anymore to any real extent, it's just turning into a type of soap opera where the same 10 characters interact with eachother and ignores the wider universe. 

It's kind of a complicated issue right? The old characters have traction right off the bat because of all the old stories and lore that already exist, so they're easy for GW to bring in. Newer characters are lacking all that background so GW really has to invest a lot of resources into making them exciting, but they rarely seem to want to put the work in. It's not like it's impossible to make good AoS characters, but their desire to just endlessly churn out hero models seems to have outpaced their story telling. You end up with characters like Bastian Carthalos or Gobsprakk that are definitely important to their faction but nobody really cares about because they just sort of come out of nowhere and really only exist as an excuse to sell centerpiece models. 

Personally, I feel kind of conflicted over it. I would absolutely like to see new characters and new stories flourish. Slaanesh in particular has done really well recently with Glutos and Synessa/Dexcessa getting some good lore outside of their army book. It should also be noted that their lore was shared with a resurrected Sigvald, but I don't think they were overshadowed at all. On the other hand my favourite AoS characters and models so far were ported over from fantasy with upgraded kits. In the end I don't think I really care about which characters show up and which don't, the main thing is that GW does a good job telling the story and supporting their models with intriguing narrative. 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Grimrock

[KingBrodd]

20 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

They just feel like such an important part of fantasy and world mythology. I think that the best use of Unicorns would actually be either as an incarnate or as a mount for Tyrion but I doubt that will be the case. 

I hope for your sake they return eventually mate.

[cofaxest]

7 hours ago, Captaniser said:

I kinda hope they don't bring Felix back in AoS, one of the major themes in Gotrek's new adventures is to let go and make peace with what is. 

Also i don't want more characters from WHFB to show up. We still know Malerion and Tyrion are around, just not a part of the narrative yet, but i feel like the setting will just be anchored too heavily to it's past if the only characters in it are those from ages past. Look at what is happening with 40k, every rumor is about which primarch/30k character will return next, which older character will get a remake next and yadayadayada. 

It makes the settings feel smaller than what they are, newer characters being ignored or looked at with disdain by the fanbase. New narratives with new relations and dynamics to play around with is what i want, sure the occasional old face is a welcome surprise, but i am afraid that GW will just milk the character nostalgia to the point where other narratives will ignored. It's part of the reason i don't engage with 40k anymore to any real extent, it's just turning into a type of soap opera where the same 10 characters interact with eachother and ignores the wider universe. 

I'm mostly agree but must say that I really want to see Valaya, Vlad and Isabella returning. 

[novakai]

5 hours ago, Grimrock said:

It's kind of a complicated issue right? The old characters have traction right off the bat because of all the old stories and lore that already exist, so they're easy for GW to bring in. Newer characters are lacking all that background so GW really has to invest a lot of resources into making them exciting, but they rarely seem to want to put the work in. It's not like it's impossible to make good AoS characters, but their desire to just endlessly churn out hero models seems to have outpaced their story telling. You end up with characters like Bastian Carthalos or Gobsprakk that are definitely important to their faction but nobody really cares about because they just sort of come out of nowhere and really only exist as an excuse to sell centerpiece models. 

Personally, I feel kind of conflicted over it. I would absolutely like to see new characters and new stories flourish. Slaanesh in particular has done really well recently with Glutos and Synessa/Dexcessa getting some good lore outside of their army book. It should also be noted that their lore was shared with a resurrected Sigvald, but I don't think they were overshadowed at all. On the other hand my favourite AoS characters and models so far were ported over from fantasy with upgraded kits. In the end I don't think I really care about which characters show up and which don't, the main thing is that GW does a good job telling the story and supporting their models with intriguing narrative. 

 

TBF that also a 40K problem recently with characters like Morvenn Vahl, Mozrog Skragbad, Adrax Agatone, Tor Garadon, Kyria Darxus and Haarken Worldclaimer. GW loves to introduce random characters and not always develop them after their releases. Even Uthar and Vashtorr may not get much narrative significance or build up in future either.

really 40K is largely bank up by the Horus heresy lore and all the character that where explored and developed in that series. They could always fall back on Primarchs as big hype characters to come back to the present kind of like what AoS does with old world characters.

 

[JerekKruger]

It doesn't help that AoS gets far less resources dedicated to it than 40k does when it comes to Black Library novels. From your list @novakai, at least Tor Garadon appears in at least one novel (one of the Valerian and Aleya books) and it wouldn't surprise me if he appears in more since he was apparently in charge of the Imperial Fist's fortress monastery during the Battle for Cadia. I'm sure others will get slotted in as and when they can be, so they will eventually get their lore integration.

But I do agree GW are much less good at this than they used to be, but I won't if it's because that release stuff much faster more than they did back when a lot of classic characters were released. They just make me stuff too fast for a good lore background to build up a body of lore. But it also feels like they don't really care either: I doubt we'll get any novels about Bastian, we're just supposed to accept he's a bad ass and leave it at that. Personally I think that's a shame.

[Beliman]

So, still not having recieved Grombrindal/Wanderer book and spamming F5 for The Gorek Gurnisson collection... Good Luck to all dwarf fans around the globe! Let the hunt begin!

[madmac]

7 hours ago, novakai said:

TBF that also a 40K problem recently with characters like Morvenn Vahl, Mozrog Skragbad, Adrax Agatone, Tor Garadon, Kyria Darxus and Haarken Worldclaimer. GW loves to introduce random characters and not always develop them after their releases. Even Uthar and Vashtorr may not get much narrative significance or build up in future either.

really 40K is largely bank up by the Horus heresy lore and all the character that where explored and developed in that series. They could always fall back on Primarchs as big hype characters to come back to the present kind of like what AoS does with old world characters.

 

Even in Fantasy you had tons of armybook special characters who may or may not have had models that had very little lore otherwise, it's not really a new situation. People just remember the big names and forget that the rest existed.

[Gitzdee]

Dont care a lot for named characters but Destruction has like Kragnos, King Brodd and Gordrakk? Would love to see a few more, dont care if they are new or returning ones. Wouldnt mind having Throgg return to Destruction, but i dont think thats very likely.

Edit: Skragrott has a nice model but the character just has no real impact in the lore imho.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Gitzdee

[Augusto]

12 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Dont care a lot for named characters but Destruction has like Kragnos, King Brodd and Gordrakk? Would love to see a few more, dont care if they are new or returning ones. Wouldnt mind having Throgg return to Destruction, but i dont think thats very likely.

And Skragrott and Gobsprakk. There are a couple more in the lore, but without miniatures. I really like the destruction characters tbh. 

Kragnos feels so unique and out of place and i love it

Gordrakk is evolving and learning, an orruk with a character arc/development

Skragrott is so much fun and dangerous. Gobsprakk just entered the chat, but hes promising

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

Dont care a lot for named characters but Destruction has like Kragnos, King Brodd and Gordrakk? Would love to see a few more, dont care if they are new or returning ones. Wouldnt mind having Throgg return to Destruction, but i dont think thats very likely.

Edit: Skragrott has a nice model but the character just has no real impact in the lore imho.

Troggs having a new named mini or even Throgg would be amazing.

Troggoths regenerate so maybe Throgg survived The Old World and in the fires of the Aether was cleansed of Chaos taint and landed in Chamon in a Volcano forever burning and regenerating before stepping out as a new Troggoth King reborn, or should we say Reforged? Full of anger and intellect with his only memory being that of a Slayer Stuntie having a rune planted in his chest and wanting it...

58 minutes ago, Augusto said:

And Skragrott and Gobsprakk. There are a couple more in the lore, but without miniatures. I really like the destruction characters tbh. 

Kragnos feels so unique and out of place and i love it

Gordrakk is evolving and learning, an orruk with a character arc/development

Skragrott is so much fun and dangerous. Gobsprakk just entered the chat, but hes promising

Ogor Mawtribes have Frost King Braggoth Vardruk of the Beastclaws and then Globb Glittermaw Overtyrant of the Meatfist!! They both definitely deserve minis.

[Neverchosen]

If Throgg joins destruction I hope it is for revenge against Sigvald...

Just so Sigvald can have a scene in which he can angrily protest "Revenge against me?! I should want my revenge against that stinking beast!" Only to cautiously attempt to avoif fighting the Trogg hordes in all future conflicts. 

[dirkdragonslayer]

45 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Troggs having a new named mini or even Throgg would be amazing.

Troggoths regenerate so maybe Throgg survived The Old World and in the fires of the Aether was cleansed of Chaos taint and landed in Chamon in a Volcano forever burning and regenerating before stepping out as a new Troggoth King reborn, or should we say Reforged? Full of anger and intellect with his only memory being that of a Slayer Stuntie having a rune planted in his chest and wanting it...

Ogor Mawtribes have Frost King Braggoth Vardruk of the Beastclaws and then Globb Glittermaw Overtyrant of the Meatfist!! They both definitely deserve minis.

I'll be honest, one of my (very unlikely) hopes for the new Battletome is that Mollog becomes a hero. And I mean a real named hero, not his current profile. Make him like a named Troggboss with a unique command ability and special weapon. Maybe keep his wounds at 9 with the squig sacrifices so he can still benefit from Look Out Sir.

Of all the Underworlds kits I feel like you could re-release him and be fine, since he's his own solo thing. He's just one hero. His squigs are just tokens in AoS.

[Swamp Trogg]

Personally, I would love Mollog to be re-released as a generic character : with his mace and his gribbles, I think he would make for an amazing Troggoth Shaman, with his special staff and with his Littles helpers / magical familiars 😄

Edited December 3, 2022 by Swamp Trogg

[Snorri Nelriksson]

They should do a Trogg Hag special character imho (with a dual build kit for the generic option).

[JerekKruger]

5 hours ago, madmac said:

Even in Fantasy you had tons of armybook special characters who may or may not have had models that had very little lore otherwise, it's not really a new situation. People just remember the big names and forget that the rest existed.

That's true. I wonder what makes it feel different.

Take Korhil as a fairly minor character: I remember his first being released back in (I think) early 2000s, along with a White Dwarf article with maybe four pages of rules and lore. That is probably the sum total of his lore, republished in slight variants in every army book he appeared in. Given he's a High Elf, he likely appeared in a few Tyrion/Teclis novels, but won't have had a huge amount of development himself. Yet for some reason he feels more developed than most AoS characters.

Some theories as to why:

1. The world was different: I probably read that edition of White Dwarf multiple times, as well as all the other White Dwarfs around the same time, because there just wasn't as much to distract myself with online. When I've picked up the occasional modern White Dwarf I've found little desire to actually read it: part of me feels like it is different (more produced and less personal), but it might also be that I can just watch YouTube videos more easily (this sometimes depresses me).
2. The World surrounding these characters was more developed, both due to being older and due to being more concrete than the mortal realms. This means that the lore for a character like Korhil is linked to loads of other lore and so feels larger than it actually is.
3. Whilst there were a lot, they were not being introduced all the time, but rather remained largely static after their initial introduction to the game. Look in the 3rd edition High Elf army book, and the 8th edition High Elf army book, and you'll find a very large intersection in named characters. There might be a few new ones (I want to say the Captain of the Phoenix Guard wasn't in the third edition book, but I might well be wrong: he certainly didn't have a mini) but the big names were there for most of Warhammer's history.

[novakai]

11 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

That's true. I wonder what makes it feel different.

Take Korhil as a fairly minor character: I remember his first being released back in (I think) early 2000s, along with a White Dwarf article with maybe four pages of rules and lore. That is probably the sum total of his lore, republished in slight variants in every army book he appeared in. Given he's a High Elf, he likely appeared in a few Tyrion/Teclis novels, but won't have had a huge amount of development himself. Yet for some reason he feels more developed than most AoS characters.

Some theories as to why:

1. The world was different: I probably read that edition of White Dwarf multiple times, as well as all the other White Dwarfs around the same time, because there just wasn't as much to distract myself with online. When I've picked up the occasional modern White Dwarf I've found little desire to actually read it: part of me feels like it is different (more produced and less personal), but it might also be that I can just watch YouTube videos more easily (this sometimes depresses me).
2. The World surrounding these characters was more developed, both due to being older and due to being more concrete than the mortal realms. This means that the lore for a character like Korhil is linked to loads of other lore and so feels larger than it actually is.
3. Whilst there were a lot, they were not being introduced all the time, but rather remained largely static after their initial introduction to the game. Look in the 3rd edition High Elf army book, and the 8th edition High Elf army book, and you'll find a very large intersection in named characters. There might be a few new ones (I want to say the Captain of the Phoenix Guard wasn't in the third edition book, but I might well be wrong: he certainly didn't have a mini) but the big names were there for most of Warhammer's history.

it is nostalgia and looking at stuff with rose-tinted glasses, Fantasy characters like AoS character, in reality, are not as developed either. it's more of like people see the past better than the present state of things. for every Tyrion, Karl Franz, and Grimgor, we have a bunch of nobodies that have like one paragraph of lore and then a sentence of their death in the end time.

it could also be Black library has been in decline in recent years and generally novels outside of imperium or space marines just don't sell and thrust anything else is not written by their big names. very few AoS novel center on actual characters on the tabletop and they often use random freeguilders as the main characters instead of the actual character themselves such as novels like Kragnos, Lady of Sorrow, Dynasty of Monster, and Gloomspite.

Like Neave Blacktalon is one of the few stormcast characters novel that has a novel about herself and character.

which reminds me that they never release the Blacktalon show in warhammer +

[KingBrodd]

3 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

If Throgg joins destruction I hope it is for revenge against Sigvald...

Just so Sigvald can have a scene in which he can angrily protest "Revenge against me?! I should want my revenge against that stinking beast!" Only to cautiously attempt to avoif fighting the Trogg hordes in all future conflicts. 

This narrative I can 100% get behind. Imagine the Audio Book!!

46 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

They should do a Trogg Hag special character imho (with a dual build kit for the generic option).

Trogg Hag, Sourbreath and Sulphur Breath Troggoths all exist in Lore and need minis!!

[JerekKruger]

14 minutes ago, novakai said:

it is nostalgia and looking at stuff with rose-tinted glasses, Fantasy characters like AoS character, in reality, are not as developed either. it's more of like people see the past better than the present state of things. for every Tyrion, Karl Franz, and Grimgor, we have a bunch of nobodies that have like one paragraph of lore and then a sentence of their death in the end time.

Yeah I think there's probably a big dose of this. I suspect a lot of what I remember about, say, Korhil is actually the product of my young mind inventing cool lore rather than listen at school, and I didn't have the internet to distract me from doing that. Plus things seem more original when you're young because you haven't yet seen where they've been borrowed from.

Edited December 3, 2022 by JerekKruger

[sandlemad]

I think there’s a distinction between characters like Gobsprakk who are released with some genuinely good and interesting background, defined personalities, etc but who get no real development… and narratively empty characters without personality (like most stormcast characters) who also get no development.

It’s unfortunate because the former type are basically waiting as good ideas to be used interestingly, while the latter could maybe be made worthwhile with a bit of development, as with Vandus. But either way, there doesn’t seem to be much appetite for it.

[Overread]

I think one reason characters in AoS can feel more hollow is because the setting is so insanely open and huge. It's hard to really have characters that aren't gods who have impact because whole cities and nations can rise and fall and it has zero impact on the setting as a whole. Even if your character is just a minor one in the setting, in Old World they could have impact, they could interact with other major events and characters and you had a sense of when and where they were in the world.

 

In AoS its much harder. The setting has no time system so there's no dating element in place beyond if the author references the age (3 of them) or if its before or after something like the Necroquake. 
The maps are getting better, but even then its hard because many of the settlements and regions have no real impact.

 

Take the Gotrek books for AoS. Gotrek has been touring several of the Dwarf peoples. Visiting sky cities and mountain holds and yet its all kinda just nothing. 

 

Now part of it is possibly that AoS hasn't got as many matured authors. 40K and Old World by far had more and AoS had the amazing Josh Reynolds for a time, but since then I feel like they have good authors and a lot of beginner authors but no one who really stands out. GW in their bid to make a setting that gave them (and players) almost total creative freedom, made a setting that's so open and free its hard to have agency unless you're a god 

[Red Bull]

While we're talking old WHFB characters coming back, there's 3 Dark Elf ones I'd really like...

Malus Darkblade. Tons of depth, his books are great. It'd be a shame to leave him behind.

Shadowblade. I really enjoyed his rivalry with Eltharion and the storyline going along with it. It'd be cool if he came back in a similar form as his rival, something like The Shadow Blade. No real physical form, just a mix of shadows and sharp looking things and cloth. I'm a sucker for infantry heroes (eltharion/sigvald, tier).

Hellbron. Might be a bit of a stretch, but I like her jealousy of Morathi and their political rivalry. Sadly, I don't think there's a place for her since Morathi finally became Khaine. There's no way Hellbron would worship her hah. I was always team Hellbron.