The Rumour Thread

[sorokyl]

 

1 hour ago, Ogregut said:

I'm thinking a rat gyrocopter will be joining my Skryre skaven!

Am I misreading:

This mercenary company is for you! Consisting of 1-3 Cannons or Organ Guns, with options for a Cogsmith and a Gyrocopter, it’s cracking for any collection in need of some Artillery.

Most of the ones they specified have the same wording which sounds like a batallion where certain units are required in certain quantities to use it at all (in this case at least 1 cannon or organ gun)This is not how it was in forbidden power.  I am hoping the Warhammer-Community article is just poorly / wrongly worded.

 

[Charlo]

No I think they're specific units.

The forbidden power ones prevent certain units from FS / FEC so just restrict it in the reverse.

[Ogregut]

7 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

 

Am I misreading:

This mercenary company is for you! Consisting of 1-3 Cannons or Organ Guns, with options for a Cogsmith and a Gyrocopter, it’s cracking for any collection in need of some Artillery.

Most of the ones they specified have the same wording which sounds like a batallion where certain units are required in certain quantities to use it at all (in this case at least 1 cannon or organ gun)This is not how it was in forbidden power.  I am hoping the Warhammer-Community article is just poorly / wrongly worded.

 

I'm fine with putting a rat organ gun, chopper and short rat with a beard in the army!

[Zanzou]

2 hours ago, Charlo said:

Not one bit really. The old lines of factions are a lot more blurred these days. Vampires are mostly independent if they aren't direct agents of a high power (Neferata etc) and like the article says, there are a lot of Dead in Shyish that are part of mortal civilization, or who's to say a cunning Necromancer has promised an undead legion to tip the scales in battle for a fair price. The Mortal Realms are a very forgiving place lore-wise, it's what makes them so cool!

Your specific example of a Loremaster is an unfortunate one, but let's face it, Loremaster is a legacy model with a spell that is probably a touch too versatile for play outside of Grand Alliance Order. Yes the old rules were any ORDER WIZARD but the design of the game has certainly changed.

If the plastic Loremaster is a legacy model to you then what are resin bloodknights to you?

This decision still makes zero sense to me thematically. The point was that I cannot bring in aelves outside of allies to play with the sylv but the sylvaneth are ok with hiring Chaos and bloodknights?  Just does not make sense to me, at all.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Zanzou

[Ogregut]

24 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

If the plastic Loremaster is a legacy model to you then what are resin bloodknights to you?

This decision still makes zero sense to me thematically.  I cannot bring in aelves to play with the sylv but the sylvaneth are ok with hiring Chaos?  Just does not make sense, at all.

What if they aren't chaos but a local tribe that worship the trees. 

The blood knights aren't vampires joining the daughters of Khaine but spectral aspects of Khaine wrath.

The dwarf stuff I'll be adding to my skaven aren't dwarves but the latest  inventions of a warlock engineer.

I'm loving the mercenary stuff, so much inspiration!

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ogregut
Spelling

[Charlo]

Legacy model in that the Blood Knights are supported in a 2.0 battletome, with a fair few rules written around them whereas the Loremaster is only in the GA compendium.

Ogregut has the right idea!

[Zanzou]

1 minute ago, Ogregut said:

What if they aren't chaos but a local tribe that worship the trees. 

The blood knights aren't vampires joining the daughters of Khaine but spectral aspects of Khaine wrath.

The dwarf stuff I'll be adding to my skaven aren't dwarves but the fastest inventions of a warlock engineer.

I'm loving the mercenary stuff, so much inspiration!

I definitely appreciate hearing a different take on this.  It will certainly take some getting used to, to say the least!

[willange]

3 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

If the plastic Loremaster is a legacy model to you then what are resin bloodknights to you?

This decision still makes zero sense to me thematically. The point was that I cannot bring in aelves outside of allies to play with the sylv but the sylvaneth are ok with hiring Chaos and bloodknights?  Just does not make sense to me, at all.

While I agree with you that it does seem generally silly, it's not at all hard to have it make sense lore-wise.  The "High Aelves" may simply be uninterested in helping the Sylvaneth since they're all busy with doing whatever Teclis apparently has them doing.  The Sylvaneth (probably mainly the spite-revs and Drycha) are super angry and just want blood and vengeance so they'll do anything to get revenge for their slain kin, including hiring blood knights.  Sure it might not make as much sense for Alarielle herself to do so (unless she's especially irate), but at some point the game isn't strictly a narrative game.  If you want strictly narrative stuff, then play some narrative games with your friends and do what makes sense to you.  I'm personally just glad they bothered to make it make any sense at all.

[Zanzou]

8 minutes ago, willange said:

While I agree with you that it does seem generally silly, it's not at all hard to have it make sense lore-wise.  The "High Aelves" may simply be uninterested in helping the Sylvaneth since they're all busy with doing whatever Teclis apparently has them doing.  The Sylvaneth (probably mainly the spite-revs and Drycha) are super angry and just want blood and vengeance so they'll do anything to get revenge for their slain kin, including hiring blood knights.  Sure it might not make as much sense for Alarielle herself to do so (unless she's especially irate), but at some point the game isn't strictly a narrative game.  If you want strictly narrative stuff, then play some narrative games with your friends and do what makes sense to you.  I'm personally just glad they bothered to make it make any sense at all.

I guess for me it's less about games being perfect narratively- It's more that the general theme of these armies seemed violated when grand alliances are mixed to this degree.  I look at it on the table and even if GW has reasonings and *some* lore  behind it, my brain cannot compute it as anything other than a fanfic fantasy game- but that's just me it looks like!  

Edited June 10, 2019 by Zanzou

[sandlemad]

1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

Alot of these mercenaries are reworks of old dogs of war.

Exactly, this is the most attention mercenaries have got in fifteen years. Even aside from that context, there's tons of precedent in the background for forces from one grand alliance including detachments from another.

[Beliman]

23 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

I definitely appreciate hearing a different take on this.  It will certainly take some getting used to, to say the least!

IMO, Sylvaneth are a race of zealot forest-spirits that only accept  the ones that helped them before (SCE is a good example). Mercenaries are just some "tools" that the general/you (that's my main selling point of this argument) will use in their wars, but remember that the whole army are not accepting them (Disruptive Presence). 

In the other side of the coin, The Lore Masters are not a sellsword (or at least, there isn't any company that use some of them...yet). The only Sylvaneth that have some type of business with them are the ones that don't follow the Sylvaneth Modus Operandi (laws, rules or whatever they follow), and that's why you can take the Lore Master using Sylvaneth models in GA:Order. Your army is not part of the Sylvaneth anymore (no Sylvaneth allegiance), and only the background behind lore master and your army can fix that (but you are just "cheating" the lore to make it happen, so it's more about Narrative Games than Matched Play). 

That argument can be used for every other army (Devoted of Sigmar+Rampagers...yeah, a bit over the top, but still it works too).

Maybe it's not enoug for some people, but in my head makes sense 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Beliman

[Overread]

Also don't overlook the fact that the dark forces might "hide" themselves. Those Bloodknights might look very normal when hired, or might use human familiars to do the hiring for them. In times of war one might not look close enough. It being only upon the field of battle that the nightmare steeds charge across the fields with their blood drinking riders licking their swords after each slice through the enemy. The force that hired them only able to hold their own and unable to turn their backs on those mercenaries who are aiding them in winning the battle. Sure afterward those mercenaries might ride off into the distance, taking their pay and horrors with them et.c...

[GeneralZero]

12 minutes ago, novakai said:

I theorize that they may get cheaper (130 would be the minimum point they would need to fit)

Gargans are not worth more TBH. 110-130 range sounds good. If more, I won't get them. If in this range, I'll considere 3  of them because I like this form factor (tall but not too large)

By the way, those giants are the unique guys that you can officialy include in almost ALL chaos armies and ALL destruction armies, making your invest the most valuable of the whole game (at least for fun! because they are ot that reliable) 

[Zanzou]

1 hour ago, Charlo said:

Legacy model in that the Blood Knights are supported in a 2.0 battletome, with a fair few rules written around them whereas the Loremaster is only in the GA compendium.

Ogregut has the right idea!

Only in a compendium? The eldritch council / loremaster was in the latest GHB?  If you're just talking about not being in a new battletome, that's something that needs to be fixed (and rumored to be fixed with 1.5 years).

[Charlo]

5 minutes ago, Zanzou said:

Only in a compendium? The eldritch council / loremaster was in the latest GHB?  If you're just talking about not being in a new battletome, that's something that needs to be fixed (and rumored to be fixed with 1.5 years).

Not his warscroll?

[Thiagoma]

1 hour ago, Charlo said:

Not his warscroll?

What do you mean? His Warscroll, model and faction is in no way shape or form a compendium model.

You can field a full army of Eldritch Council and he is a strong ally for any army with behemoths, strong heroes and warmachines.

Actually Eldritch Council could have a very good  aproach as mercenaries, working dor relics and ancient books of knowledge.

[Charlo]

3 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

What do you mean? His Warscroll, model and faction is in no way shape or form a compendium model.

You can field a full army of Eldritch Council and he is a strong ally for any army with behemoths, strong heroes and warmachines.

Actually Eldritch Council could have a very good  aproach as mercenaries, working dor relics and ancient books of knowledge.

It was a reply, his Warscroll is in the GA:O book, not the GHB.

I agree, he is strong - but Eldritch Council are hardly a fully supported army in terms of rules currently. That's all!

[mhsellwood]

15 minutes ago, Charlo said:

It was a reply, his Warscroll is in the GA:O book, not the GHB.

I agree, he is strong - but Eldritch Council are hardly a fully supported army in terms of rules currently. That's all!

Compendium specifically means warscrolls that are only available in the compendium's Games Workshop released at the same time as Age of Sigmar was released. At this point that mainly means Brettonians and Tomb Kings but there are some other models that are compendium only - for example for Dispossessed the old Anvil of Doom model was in the initial set of compendium rules but have never subsequently been reprinted.

There are plenty of units / warscrolls that are only in the respective Grand Alliance books but are not compendium armies. For example Order Draconis (who are a really good army) is solely models from Grand Alliance: Order and it is certainly not a compendium army.

[Double Misfire]

27 minutes ago, Charlo said:

It was a reply, his Warscroll is in the GA:O book, not the GHB.

I agree, he is strong - but Eldritch Council are hardly a fully supported army in terms of rules currently. That's all!

 Erm. Hate to ask rhetorical questions, but what's the Ironweld Arsenal and how/why do they have a mercenary company?  

[Joseph Mackay]

10 hours ago, Forrix said:

I find it hard to believe the GHB was finished before Gloomspite. Especially since they were asking for points feedback for the GHB in December when Gloomspite would have already gone to print. If anything I think having the points as a separate booklet would allow them to hold off on finishing points adjustments for a bit longer.

As for the cut off-I'd think about 3 months before the GHB was released so March-ish. I think FEC and Skaven will be the big question since they're probably close to the cut off and major over performers (especially FEC). Unless they give out massive points reductions for most factions I think they're going to get major push back if they don't touch FEC.

I'm curious about Maggotkin of Nurgle, Nighthaunt, and Gloomspite as they are AoS 2 battletomes that seem to be behind the power curve of the other new edition battletomes. 

The problem with Flesh-Eaters isn’t one that points can solve (just like Daughters of Khaine). The issue is one of the Courts has an ability thats a bit too strong, but if they raise the points of the unit that benefits from it the most (Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheight) you’re just handicapping the lists that aren’t Gristlegore Court, you’d basically force every Flesh-Eaters list to be Gristlegore court as the Terrorgheist would be overcosted in any other Court.

[awcamawn]

35 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

The problem with Flesh-Eaters isn’t one that points can solve (just like Daughters of Khaine). The issue is one of the Courts has an ability thats a bit too strong, but if they raise the points of the unit that benefits from it the most (Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheight) you’re just handicapping the lists that aren’t Gristlegore Court, you’d basically force every Flesh-Eaters list to be Gristlegore court as the Terrorgheist would be overcosted in any other Court.

This is certainly a major issue that subfaction rules can cause. In theory they are a cool way to tweak and customize your force in a way that speaks to you as a player and they set your army apart from someone who collects the same faction. In practice they really force GW's hand when trying to set a singular points value on a model that can have varying rules. Unless the rules are very well written (or very boring; ie there is very little difference between your subfaction choices) there will almost certainly be a subfaction that players deem to be superior, and the initial points should be based on the strongest subfaction in the first place. Many competitively minded players almost certainly already feel "forced" to play Gristlegore and Hagg Nar or else be making an inferior choice.

They can't win here; you say points can't solve the problems Flesh-eaters Courts or Daughters of Khaine are causing - I say they can, points just won't be the very best solution (which is to somehow rewrite the Hagg nar and Gristlegore rules). But rewriting subfactions in a FAQ or even releasing new battletomes just to rewrite those couple of broken rules isn't ideal either. Maybe the solution is different points for different subfactions - just double the points for everything in Gristlegore or Hagg nar and the points can stay the same for everyone else? But that would also be madness. Thus the points will almost certainly come up; it's inelegant but probably the easiest solution available. Flesh-eater Courts and Daughters of Khaine players that don't play Gristlegore or Hagg nar will merely be the latest unfortunate victims of the trail of destruction those subfactions have already left in their wake.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Joseph Mackay said:

The problem with Flesh-Eaters isn’t one that points can solve (just like Daughters of Khaine). The issue is one of the Courts has an ability thats a bit too strong, but if they raise the points of the unit that benefits from it the most (Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheight) you’re just handicapping the lists that aren’t Gristlegore Court, you’d basically force every Flesh-Eaters list to be Gristlegore court as the Terrorgheist would be overcosted in any other Court.

They need to be willing to utilize their existing tools (errata documents, GHB, etc) to address issues with things like courts, temples, enclaves, etc.  This means buffing some of the lacking ones up in addition to tuning down the overly good ones.  I am of the opinion that they have been too hands off in regards to this so far.  There are some circumstances where they could make big impacts with just a couple small changes.

[novakai]

Considering how more direct they where in the last 40K FAQ, I can see them errata some of the stuff to tone down Gristlegore and Hag Nar

[Qaz]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

Considering how more direct they where in the last 40K FAQ, I can see them errata some of the stuff to tone down Gristlegore and Hag Nar

Dunno, man. The Castellan knight was powerful when it's a Mechanicus-Knight + House Raven + Ion Bulwark + Cawls Wrath, not so scary when it's a House Cadmus... Yet, it got a 100 point increase in the last 40k FAQ. 

I do hope however that it's an errata for FEC and DoK since I find them mostly fair outside their 'best' subfactions (except for the 60 point Hag) but then that'll probably be in July and not in the GHB2019. 

Kharadron Overlord mercenaries, maybe? anyone? 

[Thomas Lyons]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:06 AM, Grudgebearer said:

Any News on the kharadron overlords?

Yep.

Their points are going down almost across the board in the new GHB, including 40 point drops for the larger vessels, Khemist down 20, Skywardens back down 20, Thunderers down 10, as well as other similar tweaks. They should be very playable moving foward.

More significantly, I had previously said they were coming this Spring with Sylvaneth - I clearly got my wires crossed on which duardin were being refreshed this Spring (given the Fyreslayer tome). KO book is 6-9 months I would guess.


Other significant news includes the three new command generic command abilities include reroll 1s to hit, reroll 1s to wound, and reroll 1s to save. Sounds like we'll all be capped at only 1 additional command point (purchasable for 50 points in matched play).  Dok took a hit, but it wasn't tragic (Hags at 90, etc.). Interestingly, alot more points adjustments by 10s instead of 20s (eels up 10, etc).

That's all I have right now.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Thomas Lyons