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Gareth 🍄

The Big Community Survey 2019

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The main thing i asked is updating the battletomes with the errata and faq  in the digital format

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3 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

I voted against double turn. Originally I've been in favour of turn roll but recently it has been the source of biggest negative experiences for me in aos. Let me give some examples:

1st game. Me playing skryre against dok. My opponent got some really lucky long charges and caught me by surprise. I lost most of my army that turn. Almost threw a towel at that point. Anyway, it's time for turn roll. I win the roll, make comeback and win game through objectives. So what am I on here about? Well... if I had lost that roll, it would've been 100% defeat for me (double turn for dok). One roll literally dictated the entire course of the game. One roll. People often say that double turn makes games more exciting and allows miraculous comebacks but what it also does, is to allow people to steamroll and make double points from objectives. This skryre vs dok game was plenty exciting even without any double turns during the game (it was igougo entire game) but had that 1 roll failed, it would've been lame game, heh my opponent was even willing to give me the turn had I lost the roll, so how is that for a good game mechanic.

2nd game. Fyreslayers and gobbos vs boc and slaanesh. My fyreslayers and team mate's gobbos got double turn. During that double turn we killed all remaining slaanesh heroes and secured our objectives. This prevented slaanesh from summoning anything and boc from utilizing those summons to cap objectives. Needless to say, we won that match, but our victory didn't feel earned. Maybe this game was already in our favour, but once again, at least it would've been more fun match if it weren't for that double turn. 

I enjoy consistency. Can double turn make some matches really great? Sure but at the cost of ruining other games. No turn roll means that there won't be any real fun surprises but it also means that all negative surprises will be out as well and games will be overall consistently more enjoyable. Now some rule changes would be necessary for removal of turn roll (like endless spells) but it can be dealt with.

While I obviously don't know all the details of those missions and what the dice were like, I will say that planning for a double turn is part of playing the game. If the DoK player went all in on their first turn, assuming that they'd get the double, then that's a mistake on their part. Any time you go hyper aggro and tell yourself "well if I get the double, I win", you usually are just shooting yourself in the foot.

In the second game, if your opponents knew that they needed those Heroes to survive, they could have either hid them better or positioned them more defensively to protect them going forwards. Again, they should have seen the possibility of the double coming and planned appropriately.

 

Is the Double good or bad for the game? I think it's somehow both and neither, but either way it is part of the game and it's not one that's impossible to play around. To give an anecdote to your anecdote - every time I've lost to a double turn, I can look back and say "if I had put my unit 3 inches back more conservatively, they probably wouldn't have died and I could have come back" or something similar. 

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Posted (edited)

More Stormcast, done

I asked for a Shadespire Warband called “The Butts” so look forward to seeing their interpretation of that 

Edited by Nos
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If we're keeping score...

I voted against single drops choosing first turn - it *could* be utilized as a balancing mechanism, but then if you're playing an army that has been balanced for single drop/go first, you're pretty handcuffed into following that build.  I play a couple of armies that *could* do a single drop, but I don't want to play that one specific build (eg. I know they are just a GH faction, but you can do a single drop Slaves to Darkness army, if you feel like ignoring 2/3 of the units in the faction).

I voted for double turns, mostly because it's what gives AoS its difference, its spark.  40k players watch us and go "oooooh, that's hard as f--k dudes".  It also adds one level of randomness to the placing of events - it's still mostly the same faces at the top, but the vagaries of lucky (or unlucky) double turns can have a new face pop in now and then.

I asked for more Start Collecting boxes, and the return of those 400 point Ally boxes.

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Survey done. I asked for more narrative content, plastic aspect warriors, Free City Battletome and, in truly skaven-like backstabby style, NO WORDS ABOUT TOMB KINGS, YES-YES!

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I pretty much asked for:

Rules/point updates every 3 months
DoK, Seraphon and Sipossessed warband
More Terrain
Less MW output in general
A Battletome for Dispossessed
Malerion's Shadow Aelfes

and that it pretty much it as far as I remember 😃

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Posted (edited)

Asked for:

Dropper bottles

Repricing/boxing of witch aelves and vulkites

Free Peoples update

Round bases for all models

Notice of which models/factions will continue to be supported/sold and which are going to be discontinued.

A giant plastic Sotek model for Seraphon

Edited by Blightzkrieg
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I asked for clean rules. I asked The somehow find a way to centralized the rules so I’m not bringing around the core handbook, General handbook, malign sorcery, my Battletome, the FAQ and errata for all of the above and more. 

If there were a clean quick way to get the most modern, recently updated, freshest and cleanest rules all in one place that would be the dream. 

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7 minutes ago, Blightzkrieg said:

Repricing/boxing of witch aelves and vulkites

I didn't think to ask that but I know vulkites are absurdly overpriced (in real $$). They're good models individually but its 2 identical 5 man sprues with almost no customization options.

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22 minutes ago, Blightzkrieg said:

Asked for:

Dropper bottles

Dangit I forgot to ask for dropper bottles.  LOL

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Posted (edited)

Come on Seraphon battletome!!! 

I hate that it's either double turn OR igougo.  I despise igougo.  I remember it well in all its badness.  Why does it have to be one or the other? 

I asked for a change to the mechanic.  Not one or the other.  Both are troublesome, igougo is definitely much worse in my opinion.  Hate getting double turned?  At least there's a chance.  Now, we're going back to the world of winning because you went first.  Please please don't do it GW.  

Try anything else first.

Definitely on board with the digital battle tomes if you buy the books.  That's just reasonable. 

Also, I think that we should have a battle tracker where we could add a "Win for XXX" on the community page.  Some way to see how the overall war is going!  😀

Edited by Vextol

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The double turn is still igougo really, but took the worst aspect (lack of interaction for long periods) and turned it up to 11 in true AoS style.

I think the initiative roll could be cool if it took place at the start of the combat phase instead, so a plan could be altered slightly if you found yourself taking second pick in your own turn instead, and could make some fun moments, instead of the sinking feeling when a whole turn is snatched away.

Or make it a feature of some battle plans and not others, then everyone can play what they like and no ones upset.

Most of the guys I play with hate it equally so we rarely use it anyway!

 

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Mentioned Stormcast/Space Marine fatigue.

Dispossessed Battletome!

Could they please make the Asyr army builder (which otherwise is pretty great) accurate? Too many bugs!

The latest pitched battle profiles should be accessible for free through the Asyr app and/or the website (and reviewed / updated every 6 months).

Witch Hunter entourage for WU

The double turn introduces doubt about what will happen in future turns, which is tactically interesting. The problem (for me at least, and apparently for at least a few others from reading this thread) is that it's too all or nothing. The only obvious way I can think of to tone it down without removing the extra doubt entirely it's to move to an alternating unit activation system. That would be a pretty big upheaval though. Can't see it happening anytime soon.

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Posted (edited)

As a TK guy, I was wondering if anyone knows any of those Russians that are said influence the outcome of elections everywhere.

Asking for a friend...

Edited by Kyriakin
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45 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

As a TK guy, I was wondering if anyone knows any of those Russians that are said influence the outcome of elections everywhere.

Asking for a friend...

I am a simple men, i see TK i give it a like.

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Well how about this to replace turn roll:

The player who wins initiative role gets to choose one (and only one) unit that can act in advance (minus command abilities). You can do everything with that unit from hero to charge phase before opponent gets to act. When combat phase starts you can choose to attack with that one unit before opponent selects any units to pile-in and attack with. If you chose to activate unit this way, you can't do it later in your own turn (so no double hero phase or anything).

This way there is still that surprise element and extra tactics but other player doesn't have to wait billion years when opponent gets double turn. 

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Posted (edited)

Each player starts the battle with 5 'tactic dice' they can use to alter their initiative roll.  Before each initiative roll, players choose in secret how many of their tactic dice they're going to roll along with their initiative die.  Highest total wins.  Each die can be used once per battle. 

Boom.  You now have tactical control over turn order and haven't messed with the fundamentals of the game at all.  Also, you can adequately prepare on BOTH sides to either get hit with the double turn or receive the double turn. 

Igougo completely changes the game.  The game is in a really good place right now.  Even balance wise I'm seeing a much better job (hearthguard berzerkers possibly excluded 🙄).  If we go back to igougo with no creative way to fix the absolutely dreadful "first player wins" scenario, I'm worried everything will come undone... again... 

As for waiting forever, people play tournament games in like 1.5 hours.  That's  a max of 18 minutes of waiting assuming there's no save rolls and no combat.  I wonder how people can ever paint their stuff if 18 minutes is enough to wear you down.  If your opponent is taking forever, bring a chess timer.  I love using a chess timer in my "long" games.  Helps everyone focus. 

Edited by Vextol

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Vextol said:

Each player starts the battle with 5 'tactic dice' they can use to alter their initiative roll.  Before each initiative roll, players choose in secret how many of their tactic dice they're going to roll along with their initiative die.  Highest total wins.  Each die can be used once per battle. 

It’s an interesting idea but I don’t think it solves anything. As an Idoneth player the only turn I care about is turn 3 80% of the time. I don’t particularly care about  turns 1 or 2 (most of time I prefer going second) and on turn 4 the game is pretty much decided by then or clean up. If my opponent wants to burn his dice on earlier turns I am more than happy to let him. Though more than likely it’ll be a six dice roll off on turn 3 and nothing changes overall.

Edited by King Taloren

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For my "wish" I put splitting out the gaming elements of things like battletomes and rulebooks to make my life easier when playing outside my house (i.e. I only have to carry some booklets or cards rather than a mountain of hardback books).   From a quality of life aspect it'd have more impact on me than any game mechanic or new army!

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, King Taloren said:

It’s an interesting idea but I don’t think it solves anything. As an Idoneth player the only turn I care about is turn 3 80% of the time. I don’t particularly care about  turns 1 or 2 (most of time I prefer going second) and on turn 4 the game is pretty much decided by then or clean up. If my opponent wants to burn his dice on earlier turns I am more than happy to let him. Though more than likely it’ll be a six dice roll off on turn 3 and nothing changes overall.

Ha!  You picked the ONLY army that needs special consideration but even there, not really. 

You did nail the issue though.  It potentially changes "nothing" while changing a ton at the same time.  Isn't that the kind of rule change that we need?  Something that at worst is the same and at best can completely change how initiative is handled in a much more tactical way?

As you said, at very worst it's the same (and really only with idoneth).  However, it's not really the same because now your opponent knows for sure you're throwing all 5 dice.  They can guarantee themselves every first turn except the third if they want.  Also, it's a nice buff to idoneth who rely THE MOST on a favorable initiative roll. 

Try it in a game mate!  This wasn't my idea, so I can't claim credit.  However, I've played 10 games (as of last night) using this, including with idoneth, and it's a really fun mechanic.  I am SUPER anti house rules so it hurts me a little every time, but it really makes the experience more enjoyable. 

Edited by Vextol
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I asked for:

dropper bottles

more blood bowl content/quicker team releases

wood elf battletome and range re-release.  (oh please god yes) 

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How exactly do you auto win by going first and how does the double turn completely stop this?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Forrix said:

How exactly do you auto win by going first and how does the double turn completely stop this?

This is a carryover from 40k and a little bit of Old Fantasy.

In 40k whoever goes first gets to shoot all of their units with full strength and deal the potential maximum damage without suffering any drawbacks. Whoever goes second is now starting their turn with a disadvantage from the loss of models or even entire units that could have shot back at the enemy. With how high damaging some armies are this can basically be the end of some armies right off the bat.

To some the double turn is kind of the “big comeback moment” a chance to deal a lot of damage to the enemy or take objectives without the enemy getting a chance to move and react in between. It’s about as good as going first in some cases.

Honestly I really don’t mind going second since it lets me control my endless spell and unless the objectives have a high scoring potential, or the enemy has a huge squad to park and stop my faster army from taking the objectives from how quickly there isn’t as much reason to go first for me.

Edited by King Taloren
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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

Dangit I forgot to ask for dropper bottles.  LOL

I got you covered on this lol.

Asked for dropper bottles, more narrative/painting/lore content,T-shirts and other merchandise, more support (plastic kits) for Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game, removal of double turn and finally for more unit variety among all AOS armies (instead of focusing on just rules updates).

Oh and instead of Tomb Kings why not reimagine them as Katophranes from Shadespire that went mad and broke free from the Shadeglass prison :D

Edited by Samanar

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Posted (edited)

tbh if you believe we got sisters of battle from last years survey you have to be pretty gullible, 

 

we ask for it, an then like 2 months later, BAM they start production on something which normally takes 3-4 years and get it all done in ~1?

hey, did you know the world is actually flat?  shocker i know!

if tomb kings are revealed after this its as theyre in production anyway, not as it was asked for. if all you put is

" tomb kings pls pls pls pls " or "no tomb kings pls pls pls pls " then you've wasted a opportunity to improve something which could actually be improved imv. 

no salt, just realism. 

Edited by Arkiham
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